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eSATA - DIRECTV recommended list


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#2176 OFFLINE   Drew2k

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 01:02 PM

Agreed

I'd hate for them to suddenly put out firmware that allows usage of both that would have to format my externals to allow this new "feature" to work.

A lot of people would hate that, but isn't it just speculation that a new storage scheme would require reformatting the drives to allow both the internal and external to work in conjunction?

We don't know how they're going to do it, or when, but how great would it be if they put out firmware that allows usage of both drives that does not require a reformat of either drive? If you've been using an external drive, the worst that would happen is you'd see any programs recorded on the internal drive. That would be the best scenario...

I'm convinced that use of eSATA drives one day will become a supported feature, so I just hope DIRECTV doesn't go a proprietary route and require we buy a drive and enclosure from THEM.

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#2177 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 01:17 PM

A lot of people would hate that, but isn't it just speculation that a new storage scheme would require reformatting the drives to allow both the internal and external to work in conjunction?


A new "storage scheme" would require re-partitioning and re-partitioning requires formatting. Using 2 drives together to create one storage area would require either JBOD or RAID0. Both require an array and creating an array would require new partitions. Doing it any other way would be very unstable and most certainly unacceptable.

Using one as backup to another would be different and wouldn't be called a "storage scheme", it would be a backup scheme.
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#2178 OFFLINE   Drew2k

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 05:47 PM

Doing it any other way would be very unstable and most certainly unacceptable.

Could it work where the drives are independent units and the DVR records to one drive until it doesn't have enough space, then switches to the other, but for display purposes it reads from both drives and combines free space to present a unified list? The DVR would keep track of the upcoming recordings and pick a drive as needed, in other words, but to the user it would seem as a "single" drive when viewing the playlist.

Just exploring options where the DVR would not have to partition each drive to build the array you mentioned...

#2179 OFFLINE   texasmoose

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 08:53 PM

Could it work where the drives are independent units and the DVR records to one drive until it doesn't have enough space, then switches to the other, but for display purposes it reads from both drives and combines free space to present a unified list? The DVR would keep track of the upcoming recordings and pick a drive as needed, in other words, but to the user it would seem as a "single" drive when viewing the playlist.

Just exploring options where the DVR would not have to partition each drive to build the array you mentioned...


This is my understanding of how the Fios dvr does it. It's recording on my eSATA WD dvr expander, and once full, it'll start recording back to the internal drive.

With my QIP-7232 dvr I can view a show off of either drive, whereas before when I had my eSATA hooked up to my HR20 I couldn't view any shows off the internal drive until I disconnected the ext drive, which is a bit of a bummer.
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#2180 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 07:12 AM

Could it work where the drives are independent units and the DVR records to one drive until it doesn't have enough space, then switches to the other, but for display purposes it reads from both drives and combines free space to present a unified list? The DVR would keep track of the upcoming recordings and pick a drive as needed, in other words, but to the user it would seem as a "single" drive when viewing the playlist.

Just exploring options where the DVR would not have to partition each drive to build the array you mentioned...


In theory that could work but what's the point? Most of us who use external drives are using 2TB drives. I'd never be using the internal drive with that setup.
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#2181 OFFLINE   Drew2k

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 07:30 AM

In theory that could work but what's the point? Most of us who use external drives are using 2TB drives. I'd never be using the internal drive with that setup.

Easy. It primarily helps those who have never added an external drive and who want to expand, as in this setup when that user plugged in a new external drive they would still have access to the recordings from the internal drive.

For those who already cleaned up their internal drives and have been using external drives, you'd just gain extra storage.

Makes it more user friendly for everyone.

#2182 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 07:32 AM

Easy. It primarily helps those who have never added an external drive and who want to expand, as in this setup when that user plugged in a new external drive they would still have access to the recordings from the internal drive.

For those who already cleaned up their internal drives and have been using external drives, you'd just gain extra storage.

Makes it more user friendly for everyone.


I'd prefer a backup/transfer mechanism over more storage.
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#2183 OFFLINE   Drew2k

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 07:50 AM

I'd prefer a backup/transfer mechanism over more storage.

I hear you. I'd be happy if DIRECTV allowed remote configuration backups (series links, etc.) to the cloud, but I can't see DIRECTV giving an option for backups except in one direction: the smaller factory-installed hard drive to a user-supplied external hard-drive of the same or larger capacity.

Transfers may be a more likely option, assuming users could select which DVR to transfer a recording to, as the user just needs to have free space somewhere.

I've been wanting to add capacity to my DVRs but have never been able to clean off completely any DVR the the point where I am OK ignoring the internal drive. Transferring to another DVR would be a big help, and being able to add an external drive without losing access to internal recordings would be icing on the cake for me.

#2184 ONLINE   Rich

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 10:55 AM

A lot of people would hate that, but isn't it just speculation that a new storage scheme would require reformatting the drives to allow both the internal and external to work in conjunction?

We don't know how they're going to do it, or when, but how great would it be if they put out firmware that allows usage of both drives that does not require a reformat of either drive? If you've been using an external drive, the worst that would happen is you'd see any programs recorded on the internal drive. That would be the best scenario...

I'm convinced that use of eSATA drives one day will become a supported feature, so I just hope DIRECTV doesn't go a proprietary route and require we buy a drive and enclosure from THEM.


Wonder how the CSRs would cope with that? Since we can use 2TB drives, the loss of the internal drives aren't much of a hit, unless we're talking about the 34s. All my external/internal (on my owned units) drives are 2TBs, and I didn't come closer than ~20% Available on any of them this year.

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#2185 ONLINE   Rich

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:00 AM

A new "storage scheme" would require re-partitioning and re-partitioning requires formatting. Using 2 drives together to create one storage area would require either JBOD or RAID0. Both require an array and creating an array would require new partitions. Doing it any other way would be very unstable and most certainly unacceptable.

Using one as backup to another would be different and wouldn't be called a "storage scheme", it would be a backup scheme.


How did the TiVos manage to add HDDs? I installed many dual HDDs in my TiVos. I do realize the OS was on one of the drives. Still, the dual HDD's capacity was added together. All I needed was a bracket and a jumper wire, if I remember correctly. Just curious.

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#2186 ONLINE   Rich

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:05 AM

Easy. It primarily helps those who have never added an external drive and who want to expand, as in this setup when that user plugged in a new external drive they would still have access to the recordings from the internal drive.

For those who already cleaned up their internal drives and have been using external drives, you'd just gain extra storage.

Makes it more user friendly for everyone.


Drew, we really gotta be careful what we wish for. Every big change scares hell out of me.

Rich

#2187 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 02:24 PM

How did the TiVos manage to add HDDs? I installed many dual HDDs in my TiVos. I do realize the OS was on one of the drives. Still, the dual HDD's capacity was added together. All I needed was a bracket and a jumper wire, if I remember correctly. Just curious.

Rich


From what I remember you would install the drives and then you would "bless" the drives which married them and created something along the lines of a JBOD array. You couldn't just add a drive and keep your existing content.
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#2188 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 02:25 PM

Drew, we really gotta be careful what we wish for. Every big change scares hell out of me.

Rich


Agreed. It may help those that don't already use an external drive but could also in turn, even if unintentionally, hurt those of us who do.
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#2189 OFFLINE   Drew2k

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 03:01 PM

Just for comparison, Cablevision has a different scheme for external drives used with internal: When installed, the external drive is married to the DVR and recordings can be made on either the internal drive, the external drive or BOTH drives simultaneously. You never lose access to the internal recordings, but if you disconnect the external drive and a recording was fully or partially stored on the external drive, you'd see the title in the playlist but would not be able to play or delete it.

#2190 OFFLINE   Drew2k

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 03:03 PM

Drew, we really gotta be careful what we wish for. Every big change scares hell out of me.

Rich


Agreed. It may help those that don't already use an external drive but could also in turn, even if unintentionally, hurt those of us who do.

Believe me ... I ain't got no pull, so if there are any plans for using internal and external drives simultaneously, my musings won't influence them one way or another. :)

#2191 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 03:35 PM

Believe me ... I ain't got no pull, so if there are any plans for using internal and external drives simultaneously, my musings won't influence them one way or another. :)


It doesn't have to be simultaneous storage. Whenever they go mucking around with anything in regards to drive storage, internal or external, there's a risk of total format.

The more I think about it the more I say leave it as is.
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#2192 OFFLINE   nsolot

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 09:04 PM

The concept of increasing storage by using multiple physical drive "devices" within one logical volume has been around for years. I recall doing it with Novell Netware in the mid 90's, however it was risky thing to do without mirroring devices for fault tolerance.

If I had a vote, I vote for breaking the 2 TB limit, as drive capacity is just going to keep getting larger.

#2193 ONLINE   Rich

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 08:33 AM

From what I remember you would install the drives and then you would "bless" the drives which married them and created something along the lines of a JBOD array. You couldn't just add a drive and keep your existing content.


I did so many HDD changes on TiVos and I can't remember much except how to do it. I didn't take keeping your existing content into consideration.

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#2194 ONLINE   Rich

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 08:35 AM

Agreed. It may help those that don't already use an external drive but could also in turn, even if unintentionally, hurt those of us who do.


Be nice if we could get the word out that WE CAN HELP now and do it better than anyone else can.

Rich

#2195 ONLINE   Rich

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 08:37 AM

Believe me ... I ain't got no pull, so if there are any plans for using internal and external drives simultaneously, my musings won't influence them one way or another. :)


Many musings along this line might. Can't begin to imagine what would happen.

Rich

#2196 ONLINE   Rich

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 08:43 AM

The concept of increasing storage by using multiple physical drive "devices" within one logical volume has been around for years. I recall doing it with Novell Netware in the mid 90's, however it was risky thing to do without mirroring devices for fault tolerance.

If I had a vote, I vote for breaking the 2 TB limit, as drive capacity is just going to keep getting larger.


I think most of us with multiple 2TB HDDs would be happy just to leave it the way it is, unless D* comes out with a totally new model that would support 3TB storage and that would, undoubtedly, lead to D* "supporting" the eSATA function. We can do that ourselves, we don't need to lose that freedom.

Rich

#2197 OFFLINE   mrkwstrlnd

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:26 PM

Our dvr is not sharing with the receiver we have upstairs. the Direct tech that paid us a visit said that we'd have to get a new dvr. We want to save the shows that we have recorded, mainly the wifes. Is there a way to do that and then transfer them back to the new dvr? Thanks.

#2198 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:29 PM

Our dvr is not sharing with the receiver we have upstairs. the Direct tech that paid us a visit said that we'd have to get a new dvr. We want to save the shows that we have recorded, mainly the wifes. Is there a way to do that and then transfer them back to the new dvr? Thanks.


Did you reboot the receiver and reset network defaults? Often that will fix the issue, it's likely software related and not hardware related.

There is no way to save your recordings or transfer them. I suggest watching them all before getting your unit swapped out.

#2199 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 06:19 AM

Our dvr is not sharing with the receiver we have upstairs. the Direct tech that paid us a visit said that we'd have to get a new dvr. We want to save the shows that we have recorded, mainly the wifes. Is there a way to do that and then transfer them back to the new dvr? Thanks.


Nope....the recordings are married to the dvr they were recorded on.

#2200 OFFLINE   MarkEHansen

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 08:17 PM

I'm trying to copy the contents of my old eSATA drive to a new, larger eSATA drive. I'm using the instructions found in this post:

http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=148760

Everything goes fine until I get to the point where I begin the xfsdump and xfsrestore commands. By the way, the gparted live terminal I get does not have root permissions, and so I need to "sudo su -" to become root before I do any of this. If anyone thinks that's a problem, perhaps we should look at that.

When I run the xfsdump pipe to xfsrestore, the kernel panics. It is complaining about xfsrestore, but I don't understand the problem (something about a null pointer).

When I reboot the machine and try it again, it fails because it says a restore was interrupted and I must provide either -R (to resume) or -Q (to force), so I add a -Q (to the xfsrestore) command. It again causes a kernel panic.

I downloaded the GParted Live CD, version 0.12.1-5 iso image and burned it to a cd, and am booting the machine with that.

Is there anything else I can do to get this copy to work? Do I need a different GParted Live version?

What about having to become root? The instructions definitely don't say anything about this, but without being root, I can't create the directories in /mnt, I can't mount the partitions, xfsrestore doesn't have permission to write into the new drive, etc.

Just for completeness, here is what I am doing:

The original drive is /dev/sdb
The new drive is /dev/sda

mkdir /mnt/new /mnt/orig
mount -t xfs -o rtdev=/dev/sda3 /dev/sda2 /mnt/new
mount -t xfs -o rtdev=/dev/sdb3 /dev/sdb2 /mnt/orig

xfsdump -J - /mnt/orig | xfsrestore -Q -J -p 600 - /mnt/new

This is where the kernel panics.

Please help.




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