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Quick SWM Questions


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32 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   LipschitzWrath

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 10:22 AM

Okay, gents, here's the deal. My tech stopped by yesterday to do my pole mount (back on Monday to do the rest) for my new townhouse. The townhouses are brand new and my landlord is VERY picky about what we can do for this install. He prefers cable (single-line) because it is cleaner, but it can't even compare in terms of price to DirecTV around here.

The townhouse is pre-wired as follows: A single line is in a box on the outside of the house, ready for service to be hooked to it. This single line runs into a junction box in my laundry room. In this box you have 5 wires - the one coming in from the outside, and 4 going out to the living room and 3 bedrooms.

Right now, I will have an HR22 in the living room, and that's it. But I eventually plan on putting receivers in each of the bedrooms, too. So I realize a SWM may be overkill right now, but my landlord basically said no drilling holes. Besides, the installer wants to charge me all sorts of fees for doing anything other than just drilling a hole into the wall on the outside of the living room to get the second coax to the HR22.

To me, this seems like a perfect case for a SWM with a 4-way splitter. However, the installer said (and I quote), "My boss told us he'd fire us if he caught any of us doing a SWM installation." So I called DirecTV and they are saying pretty much tough sh!t. They even said a SWM won't work in my application because you need a minimum of 5 tuners in the system and I am only using 2 (HR22).

So first, can anyone confirm or refute this fact? Do I really need to have 5 tuners in the system? I'm 99% sure the answer is no, but I thought it best to ask. I just need to put 75-ohm terminators on all unused ports, right?

Which brings me to my next question: Do I have to put the terminators on right there at the splitter, or can I hook up the cables that run to each room and put the terminator on at the wall plate in each room?

Anything else I need to remember when doing the install? I am going to get the SWMLine LNB and a PI-21 Power Inserter and a 4-way splitter that is compatible with the SWM - anything else I need (besides terminators)?

Any other things I need to consider here?

Thanks in advance!

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#2 OFFLINE   Teronzhul

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 10:37 AM

SWM will work perfectly fine with only one receiver. People at DirecTV just can't make a work order for an installation with fewer than 5 tuners because it isn't cost effective for them to do an install with SWM on a single box.
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#3 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 10:38 AM

SWM installations don't need 5 tuners to work, but apparently the guidelines given to installers indicate that they are not to be used UNLESS 5 or more tuners are required.

Since your landlord won't allow additional lines into the place, you would need an SWM LNB and power inserter. That will feed anything from 1 - 8 tuners through the appropriate splitter(s). As you already know, cap any unused ports on the splitters with 75 ohm terminators.

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#4 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 10:39 AM

A SWM will work with one receiver, but you'll never get it with only one [the 5 rule is true].
Buy it on your own is about the only option.
Yes you can terminate at the cable ends.
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#5 OFFLINE   LipschitzWrath

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 10:45 AM

You guys are the greatest. That's what I figured that they meant. They can't make a work order for less than 5 tuners. But the lady was trying to tell me that even if I bought the stuff myself, it wouldn't work in my setup.

Alright, SolidSignal, here I come!

Confirm, I can terminate with 75-ohm terminators at the wall plate in each room?

#6 OFFLINE   dave29

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 10:47 AM

Confirm, I can terminate with 75-ohm terminators at the wall plate in each room?


Yep.
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#7 OFFLINE   David MacLeod

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 11:40 AM

with that length of coax going to each room would you even need the physical terminators? iirc 15 feet of coax acted like a terminator to the swm system.
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#8 OFFLINE   dsw2112

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 12:07 PM

Anything else I need to remember when doing the install? ...Anything else I need to consider here?


It will probably not make a big difference in your setup, but just keep in mind that by using a SWM LNB you are limiting yourself to 8 total tuners (you mentioned 4 coax room runs so this will probably suit you just fine), and legacy receivers are not supported on a SWM LNB system (sounds like this will also not affect you.) Otherwise you are certainly on the right track!

#9 OFFLINE   RobertE

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 06:23 PM

Any other things I need to consider here?


What is your timeframe for putting receivers in the other rooms?

Something to consider. Installation rules require 5+ tuners for a SWM LNB. So have the 5 tuners installed. Get your HD DVR, and a regular box for each bedroom. There shouldn't be any additional upfront costs.

Doing so should trigger the provisioning system to move you to a SWM.
Back to your timeframe for the other boxes, if it's near term, you'll already have the boxes and won't have to pay to aquire them later or to have them installed. You'll also be able to verify that the lines to those rooms work now rather than later.

If the timeframe is farther out, I'd still have the other rooms installed, then shut them off a few days later. You end up with the swm with no out of pocket expense.

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#10 OFFLINE   MIMOTech

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 07:53 PM

How ever you install the SWM. Terminators are required for each unused output and it does not matter if the termination is done at the splitter or at the wall plate. If you can't get them to install due to the 5 tuner rull (2 Dvrs, and one Std receiver) then buy your own antenna and have the installer do the work. Get the 4 way SWM splitter since you only have 4 lines. www.solidsignal.com will have what you need.

#11 OFFLINE   LipschitzWrath

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 08:03 AM

Guys, thanks for all your help. Unfortunately, the order had already been placed and the installer had already been out here the first time to do my pole mount by the time I started this thread. With that, I think it's too late to add receivers. I actually thought about doing that and I would have once I found out that even a standard receiver is now gonna cost me $69 to get. I guess I was operating under the assumption that std receivers were free to add later. That's what you get for assuming.

I already bought the SWM hardware. I actually talked to the installer about it and he said he would come back to help me install it if I need him to. I don't think I will need that though. I think he aimed the dish pretty good because I am getting a signal strength of 86 on my hi-def satellites. So, I'll just throw the SWMLine LNB on there, put the splitter in the junction box, and run the power inserter behind the DVR in the living room. And the power inserter needs to be hooked to port #1 (the one with the power pass-thru) on the splitter, right?

I wish there was some way I could get my hands on some additional receivers for free. I sure would have done it differently, knowing what I know now. I would've ordered 2 DVR's and a std receiver and got my SWM installation for free. Nothing I can do about it now, tho. Is there anyway to talk DirecTV outta some more receivers for free?

I'm a little bummed that they gave me an HR22 instead of an HR23 receiver. Now I'll have to drop $200 to get one so I can watch 1080p on my new Sony 52".

#12 OFFLINE   texasbrit

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 08:21 AM

The HR22 works for 1080p just the same as the HR23, in fact all the HR2x DVRs support 1080p.

#13 OFFLINE   LipschitzWrath

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 08:28 AM

The HR22 works for 1080p just the same as the HR23, in fact all the HR2x DVRs support 1080p.


I did not know that. Thanks for that.

I'll have to get another HD DVR anyways because I was unaware that my Polaroid (yeah yeah, I know) 32" was capable of supporting 1080i (manual even claims 1080p, TV says "not supported" when I try to go to 1080p on HD channels). I figure I might as well step up to the best (HR23) if I am gonna get another one.

What is my best option for getting my hands on an HR23? SolidSignal, DirecTV, and Ebay all want roughly $200 + shipping to get one. Any place that I am unaware of where I can get them for cheaper? If I buy it from SolidSignal (or similar), can I "activate" the receiver myself? Or am I gonna have to have my tech come out again?

#14 OFFLINE   jpitlick

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 08:34 AM

I did not know that. Thanks for that.

I'll have to get another HD DVR anyways because I was unaware that my Polaroid (yeah yeah, I know) 32" was capable of supporting 1080i (manual even claims 1080p, TV says "not supported" when I try to go to 1080p on HD channels). I figure I might as well step up to the best (HR23) if I am gonna get another one.

What is my best option for getting my hands on an HR23? SolidSignal, DirecTV, and Ebay all want roughly $200 + shipping to get one. Any place that I am unaware of where I can get them for cheaper? If I buy it from SolidSignal (or similar), can I "activate" the receiver myself? Or am I gonna have to have my tech come out again?


Costco sells D* DVRs for $169.

HR20-700 attached via HDMI to an Onkyo TX-SR605S connected via HDMI to a Sony KDF-42WE655 42" Grand Vega Rear Projection LCD
H21-100 attached via HDMI to Sceptre X246W-1080P 24" LCD and attached via S-Video to Windows 7 PC w/Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1600
HR22-100 attached via HDMI to a ProScan 32LB30Q 32" LCD
SWM-8/STS-4
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All receviers connected to gigabit switches and 25/25 Mbps FiOS

#15 OFFLINE   RobertE

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 09:48 AM

I did not know that. Thanks for that.

I'll have to get another HD DVR anyways because I was unaware that my Polaroid (yeah yeah, I know) 32" was capable of supporting 1080i (manual even claims 1080p, TV says "not supported" when I try to go to 1080p on HD channels). I figure I might as well step up to the best (HR23) if I am gonna get another one.

What is my best option for getting my hands on an HR23? SolidSignal, DirecTV, and Ebay all want roughly $200 + shipping to get one. Any place that I am unaware of where I can get them for cheaper? If I buy it from SolidSignal (or similar), can I "activate" the receiver myself? Or am I gonna have to have my tech come out again?


I'd double check the specs on that Polaroid. Supporting 1080i is different from actually being able to display 1080i. Check the manual to see what the native resolution is. It most likely is yyyy X 768. Which would be a 720 native set. Many 720 sets will accept a 1080 signal and downconvert it to 720.
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#16 OFFLINE   LipschitzWrath

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 09:56 AM

Costco sells D* DVRs for $169.


I believe this is the price listed for an HR22, right? I'm looking for the HR23.

I'd double check the specs on that Polaroid. Supporting 1080i is different from actually being able to display 1080i. Check the manual to see what the native resolution is. It most likely is yyyy X 768. Which would be a 720 native set. Many 720 sets will accept a 1080 signal and downconvert it to 720.


You're probably right on that. I haven't seen many 32" TV's out there that can actually display 1080x either. So, best case, it can probably do 720p. Which is still better than SD. SO I think I wanna get another HD DVR for my new Sony 52" that is coming in later this week.

BTW, if I add another HD DVR, I only have to pay the add'l $5/month to add the receiver, right? I don't have to pay another $10/month for HD access or $6/month for DVR, correct?

#17 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 10:00 AM

I believe this is the price listed for an HR22, right? I'm looking for the HR23.


It's for whatever Costco happens to have in stock. All HR2x series DVRs are considered to be "the same" and interchangeable as far as DirecTV and retail distribution are concerned.

BTW, if I add another HD DVR, I only have to pay the add'l $5/month to add the receiver, right? I don't have to pay another $10/month for HD access or $6/month for DVR, correct?


Correct.

#18 OFFLINE   boxster99t

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 11:22 AM


What is my best option for getting my hands on an HR23? SolidSignal, DirecTV, and Ebay all want roughly $200 + shipping to get one. Any place that I am unaware of where I can get them for cheaper? If I buy it from SolidSignal (or similar), can I "activate" the receiver myself? Or am I gonna have to have my tech come out again?


Truthfully, I always try Directv first over the phone. If you catch the right CSR or may be any of them, you should be able to get another HR22 or HR23 for $99.00 plus the shipping charge of $19.99 which would be less than I've seen Costco, SolidSignal or other sellers. Just tell them you goofed and should have had two DVR's installed last time.

#19 OFFLINE   gzaboji

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 12:06 PM

I have just completed slimlne 3 swm install for an hr20-700 and h20-600.Both receivers have had the latest firmware updates forced after the install.The hr20 works flawlessly.The H20 is another story.It shows the swm firmware and swm library same as the HR20 it does not recognize the AU9 SL3 SWM ANTENNA.The closest option is the 5nb slimline which works but the tuning behavior is erratic and slow.Often i get a message that the channel is not subsrcibed or it thinks msnbc is payperview.Generarlly tuning to a lower channel and backup allows reception.
I have tried all the resets,powerdowns and forced software downloads.The present software version is 0410a.
Finally I replaced the h20-600 with another H20-600 that has the latest CE update installed and this receiver works flawlessly.It appears that the national release does not support this swm antenna.

Edited by gzaboji, 16 July 2009 - 09:53 AM.
fixed the problem


#20 OFFLINE   jpitlick

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 02:26 PM

I have just completed slimlne 3 swm install for an hr20-700 and h20-600.Both receivers have had the latest firmware updates forced after the install.The hr20 works flawlessly.The H20 is another story.It shows the swm firmware and swm library same as the HR20 it does not recognize the AU9 SL3 SWM ANTENNA.The closest option is the 5nb slimline which works but the tuning behavior is erratic and slow.Often i get a message that the channel is not subsrcibed or it thinks msnbc is payperview.Generarlly tuning to a lower channel and backup allows reception.
I have tried all the resets,powerdowns and forced software downloads.The present software version is 0410a


I had an H20-100 that behaved erradically on my SWM system. I talked D* into swapping it for an H21-100. I was able to get them to give me a service credit of $10 a month for 12 months and return the H20 and I picked up an H21 at BB.

HR20-700 attached via HDMI to an Onkyo TX-SR605S connected via HDMI to a Sony KDF-42WE655 42" Grand Vega Rear Projection LCD
H21-100 attached via HDMI to Sceptre X246W-1080P 24" LCD and attached via S-Video to Windows 7 PC w/Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1600
HR22-100 attached via HDMI to a ProScan 32LB30Q 32" LCD
SWM-8/STS-4
SlimLine Dish w/SL5 LNB
All receviers connected to gigabit switches and 25/25 Mbps FiOS




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