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Babylon 5


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#26 OFFLINE   LOCODUDE

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Posted 03 August 2009 - 08:58 AM

I really liked this series. The books are really good also, but a bit hard to find.

“The cave you fear to enter, holds the treasure you seek.” 
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#27 OFFLINE   Galaxie6411

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Posted 05 August 2009 - 06:27 PM

Cool to see this thread. I just pulled out my season sets and started from season 1 since it has been a few years since I watched them all. Unfortunately my second disc has a scratch and a few episodes have 1 chapter that isn't viewable. Anyway I too am mad that the resolution on my 42" plasma isn't great at all. Last time I watched it was on a 32" CRT and I didn't notice how grainy it was.

Anyway I was an original viewer in my early teens. It aired on Saturday nights IIRC at 10:30pm on out NBC affiliate. Since we didn't have cable I never saw the 5th season until it was in reruns and I was in college, same thing with Crusade. I liked Crusade, and own the DVD set, but when you knew the plague cure would be found because of the future scenes in the last episode of B5 it kind of killed some of the story. From what I remember JMS also said TNT tried to sex up the show too much as well as show the episodes out of order so it just never had a chance. I'll also admit every time I watch Sleeping In the Light I get a tear in my eye at the end.

#28 OFFLINE   CoriBright

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Posted 05 August 2009 - 11:25 PM

At one point I had all the episodes on VHS off-air, complete with commercials! Then I grabbed a 'gold box' offer on Amazon and got the complete five season DVD set for $105, a real bargain since at one point just one season was $85. I also adored Crusade and will forever wonder about the stories in the canceled episodes. I have Legend of the Rangers too. One of the most missed shows in this household.

I wonder if it will ever be in BluRay.
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#29 OFFLINE   bicker1

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 03:32 AM

I snagged that Gold Box deal, too.

And I think the aforementioned graininess preclude most chances of a BD release. There just aren't enough bits there. I think that's the general case, for programs that were videotaped (even only in part), rather than filmed (in entirety), before HD.

#30 OFFLINE   LOCODUDE

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 09:42 AM

This is still one of my all time favorite series...The spin-offs were not bad either.

“The cave you fear to enter, holds the treasure you seek.” 
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#31 OFFLINE   V'ger

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 06:57 PM

Lyta Alexander was played by Patricia Tallman, she was Kosh's personal psychic, she was on the original pilot, she was off for a year or so. I liked the way some characters would be off the show and then show up again, like Sinclair.

Posted Image


I have the 1998 B5 Calendar with nearly everyone's signature except Pat's and Steven Furst's. Too long a story to tell how I got the autographs, but it was fun!

The change over in cast was sometimes due to conflicts with the actors and JMS. Generally speaking, once you ticked him off, he wrote you out of the series and gave your storyline to another actor.

Andrea Thompson, Jerry Doyle's ex wife, was the Psi Corp physic that was supposed to deal with Psychic issues. I am not sure what the issue between them was, but JMS wrote her out, having Psi Corp disect her body, her brain in a bottle somewhere. JMS made sure there was no return. So Patricia Tallman was given the story arc that she had. Claudia Christian, Ivanova, was also supposed to be a latent psychic. When she did not sign, quit or was fired for season five, her latent evolving psychic power story arc was also given to Pat.

I believe JMS has also stated that he originally wrote the story for Micheal O'Hare to be the station commander for the whole arc. Micheal left, but came back to do the Valen bit.

In both these instances, he actually made a better story by changing the story to new characters. Boxleitner/Sheridan was more of an action hero, O'Hare/Sinclair/Valen was more cerebral, more likely to win with words than actions.

#32 OFFLINE   rebkell

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 09:48 PM

I have the 1998 B5 Calendar with nearly everyone's signature except Pat's and Steven Furst's. Too long a story to tell how I got the autographs, but it was fun!

The change over in cast was sometimes due to conflicts with the actors and JMS. Generally speaking, once you ticked him off, he wrote you out of the series and gave your storyline to another actor.

Andrea Thompson, Jerry Doyle's ex wife, was the Psi Corp physic that was supposed to deal with Psychic issues. I am not sure what the issue between them was, but JMS wrote her out, having Psi Corp disect her body, her brain in a bottle somewhere. JMS made sure there was no return. So Patricia Tallman was given the story arc that she had. Claudia Christian, Ivanova, was also supposed to be a latent psychic. When she did not sign, quit or was fired for season five, her latent evolving psychic power story arc was also given to Pat.

I believe JMS has also stated that he originally wrote the story for Micheal O'Hare to be the station commander for the whole arc. Micheal left, but came back to do the Valen bit.

In both these instances, he actually made a better story by changing the story to new characters. Boxleitner/Sheridan was more of an action hero, O'Hare/Sinclair/Valen was more cerebral, more likely to win with words than actions.


JMS must have had a lot of troubles out of the female telepaths :) here's a snippet from the Lyta Alexander wiki page:

Lyta Alexander is a character from the fictional universe of the science-fiction television series Babylon 5, played by Patricia Tallman.

Lyta was introduced in the pilot episode "The Gathering" as a telepath assigned to the Babylon 5 space station by the Psi Corps, a fictional organization providing support to telepaths and monitoring their activity. However, she did not appear in the remainder of Season One due to a dispute concerning Tallman's salary[citation needed]. Lyta's role in the series was largely taken up by Andrea Thompson, who was cast as Talia Winters, a telepath who took over Lyta's responsibilities in the station. In the script it was implied that the latter had to be replaced, as she had made telepathic contact with Kosh, the ambassador of the secretive Vorlon Empire. After Thompson left the series due to disagreements regarding the amount of screen time given to her character[1], Lyta returned as a recurring character in Seasons Two and Three, and became a regular cast member from Season Four onward. Her character simply resumed the dramatic arc once intended for Thompson.



#33 OFFLINE   djlong

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 06:21 AM

The "screen time disagreements" were along the lines of "I want to be paid for 'x' episodes but only have to appear in 'x - y' episodes".

#34 OFFLINE   dreadlk

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 12:02 PM

Bab 5 was one of my favorite shows.
Just in case any of you wanted to see a little more, I am not sure if everyone knew that JM released another mini installment in late 2007, it's called the lost tales and was made for DVD Direct sales. (Its low budget, but it still has JM's great story telling)

http://www.amazon.co...49754230&sr=8-9

#35 OFFLINE   dreadlk

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 12:05 PM

From what I have heard, JM made a whole lot of enemies, he is literally black listed with the Hollywood crowd. I heard that they even destroyed all the B5 props costumes and sets even though he wanted to buy and save them.


The "screen time disagreements" were along the lines of "I want to be paid for 'x' episodes but only have to appear in 'x - y' episodes".



#36 OFFLINE   rebkell

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 12:07 PM

Bab 5 was one of my favorite shows.
Just in case any of you wanted to see a little more, I am not sure if everyone knew that JM released another mini installment in late 2007, it's called the lost tales and was made for DVD Direct sales. (Its low budget, but it still has JM's great story telling)

http://www.amazon.co...49754230&sr=8-9


That's the only SD DVD I've bought since I got into Blu-ray. He had plans for more direct to DVD, but I guess it depended on how well the first one went. Not really sure if it did very well or not.

#37 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 03:58 PM

From what I have heard, JM made a whole lot of enemies, he is literally black listed with the Hollywood crowd. I heard that they even destroyed all the B5 props costumes and sets even though he wanted to buy and save them.


Citation?
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#38 OFFLINE   LOCODUDE

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 05:15 PM

From what I have heard, JM made a whole lot of enemies, he is literally black listed with the Hollywood crowd. I heard that they even destroyed all the B5 props costumes and sets even though he wanted to buy and save them.



WOW!!!... That is harsh.

“The cave you fear to enter, holds the treasure you seek.” 
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#39 OFFLINE   djlong

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 11:07 AM

I've been following jms since his "GEnie" days where he announced the project that became Babylon 5. It's the one thing that I've totally geeked out over because of the unprecedent look behind the scenes and watching it unfold over the years. People have come and gone and made various kinds of statement and innuendoes over the years. However, not a single written word from JMS has been able to be proven wrong. People have recanted their words over the years, the most notable case being Claudia Christian's admission that yes, she DID quit and WAS trying to get more money.

If you keep an eye on Usenet you'll know that JMS is HARDLY 'blacklisted'. He's as busy as any man in Hollywood and has been getting an ever higher profile. In fact you might be familiar with "Changeling" - a movie from last October that he wrote, directed by Clint Eastwood. Yeah. That's a real blacklisting.

Look at his IMDB page and you'll see that he's part of the following projects in development: "Lensman", "The Flickering Light", "World War Z" and "Forbidden Planet", "Silver Surfer" and more. He did the two seasons of "Jeremiah" for Showtime after B-5 so the 'blacklisting' wasn't around then either.

Now, if you've followed his career you know there have been arguments with "suits". The most classic case, IMO, being when 'suits' told him to change the opening scene of the B-5 follow-on series "Crusade" to include a fistfight because it would be starting after wrestling (on TNT).

You'll also hear him speak well of certain organizations who don't interfere and be less kind to those who do.

He's always been more than gracious to the fans, always signing autographs for everyone in line.

Striking the sets comes from the fact that it becomes cheaper to rebuild than store when you have no idea how long something will be in storage. In addition, set construction is a pretty normal line item in the budget of any project. Plenty of props were around, though, because they've been offered at charity auctions in the past. Heck, sometimes fans were allowed to buy more props made by the original manufacturer (I'm thinking specifically of the Ranger pins but I know there were more).

Now, I don't know which "Hollywood crowd" has "blacklisted" him, but he sure doesn't seem to have the oodles of free time that would be implied by such a situation.

I *have* heard many rumors come out that are frequently started by Star Trek fanboys (and don't get me wrong, I'm a long-time Trek fan) who think that, somehow, there was no room for more science-fiction than "Trek". Unfortunately, it's true that a lot of studio execs thought that way. Doesn't seem to be the case now (mercifully).

#40 OFFLINE   bicker1

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 11:20 AM

I think a lot of people might interpret how little JMS' stock has risen since B5 as some indication that he's getting the short-end of the stick. The reality is that, as great as B5 was, it was JMS' best idea to date, and didn't really make as much money as some of those who put money into the endeavor would have liked. Fans don't necessarily translate into money, and they call it show "business" because it is a business, and as such money really does matter.

#41 OFFLINE   dreadlk

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 11:24 AM

You seem to be more on top of this than me :) I only heard this from a guy who is a B5 fanatic, so in no way was my statement researched or a first hand account. I do know from an article that when he was leaving B5 he tried to buy and secure the sets and props and was denied, he also said that when they went back to do the Lost Tales only one Star Fury cockpit was left and one flight suit. All the other sets, costumes and props hdd been stolen or destroyed. I had asked my B5 friend what was up with that and he was the one that told me he is Blacklisted.

Djlong I hear what your saying, but I am puzzled, why have they not made any more Bab5 productions when this show is such a hit? I mean if you mention the top 3 scifi series almost every geek in the world has B5 in that list. You sure that something else is not going on, cause I hear that JM would love to make more B5 but he cant get any funding! (Not sure if thats true but thats the rumour I have heard)

I've been following jms since his "GEnie" days where he announced the project that became Babylon 5. It's the one thing that I've totally geeked out over because of the unprecedent look behind the scenes and watching it unfold over the years. People have come and gone and made various kinds of statement and innuendoes over the years. However, not a single written word from JMS has been able to be proven wrong. People have recanted their words over the years, the most notable case being Claudia Christian's admission that yes, she DID quit and WAS trying to get more money.

If you keep an eye on Usenet you'll know that JMS is HARDLY 'blacklisted'. He's as busy as any man in Hollywood and has been getting an ever higher profile. In fact you might be familiar with "Changeling" - a movie from last October that he wrote, directed by Clint Eastwood. Yeah. That's a real blacklisting.

Look at his IMDB page and you'll see that he's part of the following projects in development: "Lensman", "The Flickering Light", "World War Z" and "Forbidden Planet", "Silver Surfer" and more. He did the two seasons of "Jeremiah" for Showtime after B-5 so the 'blacklisting' wasn't around then either.

Now, if you've followed his career you know there have been arguments with "suits". The most classic case, IMO, being when 'suits' told him to change the opening scene of the B-5 follow-on series "Crusade" to include a fistfight because it would be starting after wrestling (on TNT).

You'll also hear him speak well of certain organizations who don't interfere and be less kind to those who do.

He's always been more than gracious to the fans, always signing autographs for everyone in line.

Striking the sets comes from the fact that it becomes cheaper to rebuild than store when you have no idea how long something will be in storage. In addition, set construction is a pretty normal line item in the budget of any project. Plenty of props were around, though, because they've been offered at charity auctions in the past. Heck, sometimes fans were allowed to buy more props made by the original manufacturer (I'm thinking specifically of the Ranger pins but I know there were more).

Now, I don't know which "Hollywood crowd" has "blacklisted" him, but he sure doesn't seem to have the oodles of free time that would be implied by such a situation.

I *have* heard many rumors come out that are frequently started by Star Trek fanboys (and don't get me wrong, I'm a long-time Trek fan) who think that, somehow, there was no room for more science-fiction than "Trek". Unfortunately, it's true that a lot of studio execs thought that way. Doesn't seem to be the case now (mercifully).



#42 OFFLINE   bicker1

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 11:29 AM

I have some potential sacrilege to put forward. It stems from a stupid message I saw posted as a reply to a blog message about the premiere of the reboot of the "V" franchise (now scheduled for Tuesday, November 3, on ABC). The message expressed the kind of absolutism that I really find ridiculously inane but all too prevalent in science fiction fandom -- the proprietary sentiment that the original is always best, that everything done since [pick arbitrary date, maybe when the person saying it first started shaving] has been crap, etc. and so on. In this case, of course, the poster was saying that "V" should never be redone, remade, what-have-you.

Poking a stick, perhaps (but I actually do believe it, to some extent, though clearly nowhere near as absolutely as I worded it -- I did that just to mirror the previous poster's inane perspective), my reply implied that I think everything should be remade, whenever either new artists (screenwriters, directors, actors, etc.), or new technology exist, that would result in a new take on the original concept.

So here's the potential sacrilege: When would it be appropriate to remake B5*? What changes would you like to see applied to the remake? If it was being remade today, who would you like to see play which roles?

Personally, I really think B5 is a series that should be redone sooner than later, because it was made in a very inopportune time. (I think I alluded to this a few days ago.) It was made with a lot of very sophisticated special effects, after the beginning of the use of digital video for such effects, but before that technology was sufficient to translate into HD. Film effects can be remastered into HD, but digital video effects, made without sufficient resolution, cannot, and if the original source material for the superimposed live action is not available, you couldn't even redo all the special effects from scratch, assuming you were so inclined.

_______________
* I suspect JMS owns it, but let's say he doesn't, and instead the asset is owned by Paramount or someone like that. Alternatively, perhaps JMS would allow it to be redone, or would perhaps lead the remake himself.

#43 OFFLINE   dreadlk

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 11:29 AM

Yep thats the odd thing about B5, it's probably the best SciFi series ever produced yet it gets very little recognition. I am sure that one day people willl look back and revive it, but by then it will be all new actors.

I think a lot of people might interpret how little JMS' stock has risen since B5 as some indication that he's getting the short-end of the stick. The reality is that, as great as B5 was, it was JMS' best idea to date, and didn't really make as much money as some of those who put money into the endeavor would have liked. Fans don't necessarily translate into money, and they call it show "business" because it is a business, and as such money really does matter.



#44 OFFLINE   rebkell

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 11:38 AM

I have some potential sacrilege to put forward. It stems from a stupid message I saw posted as a reply to a blog message about the premiere of the reboot of the "V" franchise (now scheduled for Tuesday, November 3, on ABC). The message expressed the kind of absolutism that I really find ridiculously inane but all too prevalent in science fiction fandom -- the proprietary sentiment that the original is always best, that everything done since [pick arbitrary date, maybe when the person saying it first started shaving] has been crap, etc. and so on. In this case, of course, the poster was saying that "V" should never be redone, remade, what-have-you.

Poking a stick, perhaps (but I actually do believe it, to some extent, though clearly nowhere near as absolutely as I worded it -- I did that just to mirror the previous poster's inane perspective), my reply implied that I think everything should be remade, whenever either new artists (screenwriters, directors, actors, etc.), or new technology exist, that would result in a new take on the original concept.

So here's the potential sacrilege: When would it be appropriate to remake B5*? What changes would you like to see applied to the remake? If it was being remade today, who would you like to see play which roles?

Personally, I really think B5 is a series that should be redone sooner than later, because it was made in a very inopportune time. (I think I alluded to this a few days ago.) It was made with a lot of very sophisticated special effects, after the beginning of the use of digital video for such effects, but before that technology was sufficient to translate into HD. Film effects can be remastered into HD, but digital video effects, made without sufficient resolution, cannot, and if the original source material for the superimposed live action is not available, you couldn't even redo all the special effects from scratch, assuming you were so inclined.

_______________
* I suspect JMS owns it, but let's say he doesn't, and instead the asset is owned by Paramount or someone like that. Alternatively, perhaps JMS would allow it to be redone, or would perhaps lead the remake himself.


JMS should be in charge and take the story on out as he planned, with the Crusade series, reboot the whole thing and take off with the story he intended to tell. It would be a sequel, but it would still entail the B5 universe and would be what I would like to see. I'm not sure it would be a big money winner though, but I think it's the way I'd like to see the B5 universe continue.

#45 OFFLINE   dreadlk

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 11:39 AM

LOL we posted at the same time.

Ok so when do I think it should be redone? I am going to do a 180 on you and say that I think it should be longer than sooner, I would say about 10 years from now. B5 was just too good to try and remake it this soon, people are going to be comparing eveything to the orginal and its going to be really hard to get a group of actors who can replace Delen, Sheridan, JKar and Lando (forgive the spelling). IMO before you can remake it, the orginal has to look Dated and B5 still looks pretty good when compared to current shows. What they could do in the meantime is to rerelease the orginal with all new special effects and some added clips.


Updated
______________
OK thats what I get for rushing to reply, I did not read your post all the way through:bang

As you can see, I agree that it should have a special effects update.
If Galactica is going with this new ".5" stuff why cant B5 have all new .5 seasons.


So here's the potential sacrilege: When would it be appropriate to remake B5*? What changes would you like to see applied to the remake? If it was being remade today, who would you like to see play which roles?

Personally, I really think B5 is a series that should be redone sooner than later, because it was made in a very inopportune time. (I think I alluded to this a few days ago.) It was made with a lot of very sophisticated special effects, after the beginning of the use of digital video for such effects, but before that technology was sufficient to translate into HD.

_______________
* I suspect JMS owns it, but let's say he doesn't, and instead the asset is owned by Paramount or someone like that. Alternatively, perhaps JMS would allow it to be redone, or would perhaps lead the remake himself.


Edited by dreadlk, 09 August 2009 - 04:21 PM.


#46 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 11:50 AM

Yep thats the odd thing about B5, it's probably the best SciFi series ever produced yet it gets very little recognition. I am sure that one day people willl look back and revive it, but by then it will be all new actors.


Maybe it was because of it's syndication system, a loose set of local stations that usually has low viewer ship to begin with. It didn't hit a major outlet until season 5 on TNT and by then it's bese days were over.

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#47 OFFLINE   rebkell

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 11:59 AM

Maybe it was because of it's syndication system, a loose set of local stations that usually has low viewer ship to begin with. It didn't hit a major outlet until season 5 on TNT and by then it's bese days were over.


That was definitely the case around here, it was first on a local independent station that was low powered, eventually became a WB station(I had it on cable thank goodness). They dropped it after the first season and I had to depend on a buddy at work that could get the Knoxville UHF station, but he barely got it and the tapes were almost unwatchable at times. Finally the 3rd season(possibly late in Season #2) was picked up by our local Fox station and I also found the feed on satellite and watched it during the week that way and then finally TNT picked it up for season #5. It was certainly a chore keeping up with, but it was definitely worth it.

I did watch it all the way through again, I think it was TNT that ran it every day while they were running Season #5 and they also ran all the movies.

#48 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 12:39 PM

why have they not made any more Bab5 productions when this show is such a hit? I mean if you mention the top 3 scifi series almost every geek in the world has B5 in that list. You sure that something else is not going on, cause I hear that JM would love to make more B5 but he cant get any funding!




It ended because it ended. It was a specific story line with a specific conclusion.

No, I don't think B5 should be remade. Ever.

The only thing worth watching on "V" was Diana.

Now, why do people quote the entire post instead of just the relevant portion?
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#49 OFFLINE   dreadlk

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 04:17 PM

V was not one of my favorite shows, IMO a complete waste of cash by ABC, I give it one season or less.

I have some potential sacrilege to put forward. It stems from a stupid message I saw posted as a reply to a blog message about the premiere of the reboot of the "V" franchise (now scheduled for Tuesday, November 3, on ABC).



#50 OFFLINE   bicker1

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 04:51 PM

I wouldn't dismiss it so quickly -- this time around it has a much more impressive cast than last time AFAIC.




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