Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

SWM 16 in the works...


  • Please log in to reply
144 replies to this topic

#126 OFFLINE   rudeney

rudeney

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 4,266 posts
Joined: May 28, 2007

Posted 09 September 2009 - 09:24 PM

Hmm...interesting... I'm just wondering if this initial incarnation will be the MDU version and a SWM16 LNB will be for residential use (like how the SWM8 and SWMLnb are currently utilized.) It would be nice if they'd let the modules be used in residential settings as they offer more flexibility -- I'll cross my fingers :D


Well, they "let" SWM8 modules be used in residential applications, they just won't install them - it's strictly DIY and AYOR. :)

...Ads Help To Support This Site...

#127 OFFLINE   dsw2112

dsw2112

    Always Searching

  • Registered
  • 1,936 posts
Joined: Jun 12, 2009

Posted 09 September 2009 - 09:32 PM

Well, they "let" SWM8 modules be used in residential applications, they just won't install them - it's strictly DIY and AYOR. :)


SWM8 is definitely DIY, but I have no idea what AYOR is!

#128 OFFLINE   rudeney

rudeney

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 4,266 posts
Joined: May 28, 2007

Posted 09 September 2009 - 10:04 PM

SWM8 is definitely DIY, but I have no idea what AYOR is!


"At your own risk" :)

#129 OFFLINE   HRJustin

HRJustin

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 433 posts
Joined: Mar 05, 2009

Posted 10 September 2009 - 01:18 AM

I am hoping that this is a step twards eliminating all WB68 installs. If this was allowed for standard installs it would allow some legacy equipment along with SWM.

This is my hypothetical idea depending on how much the SWM16 is to manufacture:lol:. The SWM8 switch along with all legacy multiswitches would be discontinued and the future would be SWM16s only. Then for most installs the SWMLNB would be used. For unique installs the SWM16 would then be installed. For example a movers install with legacy equipment depending on how many there are a SWM16 would be used. My idea is that most people wouldn't need more then the 4 legacy ports on the SWM16. Eventually legacy equipment will be phased out but its still a long while off. It seems like this would be the best as it would move everything to SWM capable. Plus it would still allow for some legacy equipment during the transition. The SWM16 could be the future standard multiswitch for unique residential installs and commercial also. Although commercial installs might be a problem with the DECA bridge. It would be a problem if one SWM16 would be used for multiple subscribers.
**Living Room - H24-x00** **My Room - HR22-100** **Master Bedroom - R22-100**
***I am in a 72.5 local swap market I do not subscribe to HD access***

**Complete Setup Here**

#130 OFFLINE   David MacLeod

David MacLeod

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,689 posts
Joined: Jan 29, 2008

Posted 10 September 2009 - 05:25 AM

wonder how parallel hooking 2 swm-16 off an AU9s dish then doubling them (as in diagram) would work for 64 tuners.
iirc the dish itself would support that amount of tuners.
Dave MacLeod
S.I.H.

#131 OFFLINE   JosephB

JosephB

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 1,163 posts
  • LocationBirmingham, AL
Joined: Nov 14, 2005

Posted 10 September 2009 - 06:25 AM

I am hoping that this is a step twards eliminating all WB68 installs. If this was allowed for standard installs it would allow some legacy equipment along with SWM.

This is my hypothetical idea depending on how much the SWM16 is to manufacture:lol:. The SWM8 switch along with all legacy multiswitches would be discontinued and the future would be SWM16s only. Then for most installs the SWMLNB would be used. For unique installs the SWM16 would then be installed. For example a movers install with legacy equipment depending on how many there are a SWM16 would be used. My idea is that most people wouldn't need more then the 4 legacy ports on the SWM16. Eventually legacy equipment will be phased out but its still a long while off. It seems like this would be the best as it would move everything to SWM capable. Plus it would still allow for some legacy equipment during the transition. The SWM16 could be the future standard multiswitch for unique residential installs and commercial also. Although commercial installs might be a problem with the DECA bridge. It would be a problem if one SWM16 would be used for multiple subscribers.


If you wanted to use a SWM16 for two separate customers you could always put a DECA filter on each output and the DECA signals would never make it to the switch to get bridged

#132 OFFLINE   dave29

dave29

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,930 posts
Joined: Feb 18, 2007

Posted 10 September 2009 - 06:55 AM

wonder how parallel hooking 2 swm-16 off an AU9s dish then doubling them (as in diagram) would work for 64 tuners.
iirc the dish itself would support that amount of tuners.


Shouldn't have to run them in parallel, with the cascadable pass-thru ports.

#133 OFFLINE   David MacLeod

David MacLeod

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,689 posts
Joined: Jan 29, 2008

Posted 10 September 2009 - 06:57 AM

Shouldn't have to run them in parallel, with the cascadable pass-thru ports.


well I was really thinking about separate mounting location there, also was not sure if cascading that many would affect deca bridge at all. have no knowledge of deca so wasn't sure.
Dave MacLeod
S.I.H.

#134 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 42,143 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 10 September 2009 - 08:50 AM

well I was really thinking about separate mounting location there, also was not sure if cascading that many would affect deca bridge at all. have no knowledge of deca so wasn't sure.

I can't see how the dish "cares" how many receivers are connected.
I too looked at the SWM16 pdf and went "hummm". You should be able to cascade these "endlessly", if you manage the RF loss. The "legacy" [poor name now] ports should have around 6 dB loss [or more ?] so using an amp would be needed, but since the "cascade cables" would be short, slope compensation shouldn't be a big issue.
DECAs would still be limited to each SWM16 and if this was used in a MDU, then the bandstop DECA filters would need to be used on each unit to keep "the cloud" within the unit.
A.K.A VOS

#135 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 42,143 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 10 September 2009 - 09:16 AM

I am hoping that this is a step twards eliminating all WB68 installs. If this was allowed for standard installs it would allow some legacy equipment along with SWM.

This is my hypothetical idea depending on how much the SWM16 is to manufacture:lol:. The SWM8 switch along with all legacy multiswitches would be discontinued and the future would be SWM16s only.

"I'd guess" this won't happen for cost reasons.
I'm sure with the "new stuff" that more SWMLNBs are going to be used next year.
SWM will become "the standard", but for those that want to keep legacy receivers, then the WB68 will stay.
Eight tuners are going to be enough for most of the customer base, so the SWMLNB will work for those wanting to "upgrade" to the "new stuff" and with the SWM16 coming, if they want/need more, then it will be used, but "I doubt" that many legacy receivers will be retained, and if so the WB68 would be added.
A.K.A VOS

#136 OFFLINE   MrLatte

MrLatte

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 210 posts
Joined: Aug 18, 2007

Posted 10 September 2009 - 01:24 PM

Internally it is probably wired very similarly to such a setup, but by reducing it down to one box it's a) cheaper and B) much simpler to distribute, install, support, etc. and c) more reliable. Also, it has a built-in internal deca bridge


How do we know this SWM16 module contains a DECA bridge? Nothing is shown in the PDF. Are we just assuming it must be in there for DECA to function across the separate clouds?

#137 OFFLINE   evan_s

evan_s

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,136 posts
Joined: Mar 03, 2008

Posted 10 September 2009 - 01:34 PM

It was posted in the thread that had the link to the pdf.

#138 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 42,143 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 10 September 2009 - 01:39 PM

Are we just assuming...

I think we can all assume all new builds of SWM will have DECA in mind.
A.K.A VOS

#139 OFFLINE   MrLatte

MrLatte

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 210 posts
Joined: Aug 18, 2007

Posted 10 September 2009 - 02:41 PM

It was posted in the thread that had the link to the pdf.


Whoops. I see it now - must have missed that when looking for the PDF.

#140 OFFLINE   P Smith

P Smith

    Mr. FixAnything

  • Registered
  • 20,280 posts
  • LocationMediterranean Sea
Joined: Jul 25, 2002

Posted 24 April 2013 - 08:44 PM

"Another option" could be to utilize the current bandwidth by reducing the [current] SWM channel bandwidth of 100 MHz, down to 70 MHz. This would "simply" let 16 tuners access the same "SWM Band" that the eight are now. Guide Data channel stays the same, the upper limit is raised to 2150 MHz from the ~ 1800 MHz now.
I don't know if this is the way they'll do the SWM16, but it would resolve the dual cable problem.

Well, well ... it's time !

 

For reality. Not papers.

 

Today was perfect day to see what SWiM LNBF sending to coax.

 

Used Slimline dish with SL3S4NR2-02 (green label) LNBF, NPM (to avoid damaging HOA paved road :eek2: ), spectrum analyzer PSA-37D (it's provided +18VDC to the LNBF) and someone in light plastic chair :).

 

Some notes to pictures:

- seems to me the SA has different offset/error on two ranges: 950-1450 and 1250-1750 MHz (it's old model, does not support second stacked range 1650-2150 MHz, but for the SWiM SL3 LNBF it's OK as you'll see from measures); I recall on 950-1450 range it has +5 MHz reading, looks like other range has +15 MHz error;

- I'm posting reading freqs (with instrumental errors);

- FW of the LNBF take time for booting: 10 seconds before any RF signal will comes out;

- last two pictures show output without LOS and with it - to show you : the LNBF constantly sending wide signal to coax cable;

- lowest part of the LNBF signal has two small [analog] peaks:at 907 MHz and 915 MHz;

- LNBF RF wide signal begin from 918 MHz, finishing at 1850 MHz;

- first 'transponder' begin at 940 MHz;

- each 52 MHz band has two parts: first is normal 24 MHz (!) transponder-like pedestal, second part looks unusual - triangle shape (what is there ? artifact ?) ;

- measured 18 bands, first and last freq of each rectangle signal presenting in a table below:


#SA 950-1450 rangeSA 1250-1750 range
1940-964
2993-1016
31043-1067
41095-1119
51145-11681159-1183
61197-12201211-1235
71247-12701261-1285
81298-13231313-1337
91348-13721363-1387
101400-14241415-1438
111450-14741465-1488
121517-1541
131567-1591
141619-1643
151669-1693
161721-1745
171781-1795
181823-1847

Attached Thumbnails

  • DSCI0272.JPG
  • DSCI0268.JPG
  • DSCI0269.JPG
  • DSCI0270.JPG
  • DSCI0271.JPG
  • DSCI0273.JPG
  • DSCI0274.JPG
  • DSCI0275.JPG
  • DSCI0276.JPG
  • DSCI0277.JPG
  • DSCI0278.JPG
  • DSCI0279.JPG
  • DSCI0280.JPG

Edited by P Smith, 24 April 2013 - 09:04 PM.


#141 OFFLINE   P Smith

P Smith

    Mr. FixAnything

  • Registered
  • 20,280 posts
  • LocationMediterranean Sea
Joined: Jul 25, 2002

Posted 24 April 2013 - 09:02 PM

VOS, now waiting your words :)



#142 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 42,143 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 24 April 2013 - 09:31 PM

Interesting, but confusing at the same time.

These tests look to be done without the 2.3 MHz FSK control signal.

 

8 Channel SWM         Frequency          Assignment
Channel 1                     974MHz           Guide DATA
Channel 2                   1076MHz           Program Content
Channel 3                   1178MHz           Program Content
Channel 4                   1280MHz           Program Content
Channel 5                   1382MHz           Program Content
Channel 6                   1484MHz           Program Content
Channel 7                   1586MHz           Program Content
Channel 8                   1688MHz           Program Content
Channel 9                   1790MHz           Program Content

 

It's hard to correlate these to your measurements.


A.K.A VOS

#143 OFFLINE   P Smith

P Smith

    Mr. FixAnything

  • Registered
  • 20,280 posts
  • LocationMediterranean Sea
Joined: Jul 25, 2002

Posted 24 April 2013 - 09:44 PM

Sure, I did provide only DC power to the LNBF.



#144 OFFLINE   P Smith

P Smith

    Mr. FixAnything

  • Registered
  • 20,280 posts
  • LocationMediterranean Sea
Joined: Jul 25, 2002

Posted 24 April 2013 - 09:47 PM

Technical question: is there any generic 2 GHz splitter (not a special SWiM type) what would allow me connect HR22 or H23 and spectrum analyzer same time ?



#145 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 42,143 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 24 April 2013 - 10:41 PM



Technical question: is there any generic 2 GHz splitter (not a special SWiM type) what would allow me connect HR22 or H23 and spectrum analyzer same time ?

I've used even cable [1 GHz] splitters and had some good ones and others that roll off at the higher channels.

 

bCapture.PNG


A.K.A VOS




Protected By... spam firewall...And...