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SixtoReport: D12 Satellite Info in Post#1 - Live!


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#1151 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 11:45 AM

Is there any chance there will be no need for the extra dish (galaxy 95) after D12 is up and running ? Do you thin Directv will move the internationals to 110/119 soon ? Thanks.


I haven't seen anything that says they will, but IMHO that would be the smart thing to do. Why pay to lease transponder space if they don't need to and have the extra effort of installing two dishes? The question is do they have enough bandwidth to move all those channels there? Maybe if they replaced all the customers using those channels to MPEG4 receivers they could squeeze them all in.

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#1152 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 01:18 PM

As referenced earlier, the Friday FCC summary:

http://hraunfoss.fcc...A-09-2607A1.pdf


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#1153 OFFLINE   sbelmont

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 01:29 PM

I was thinking getting locals period would be nice.


Amen to that.

#1154 OFFLINE   FHSPSU67

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 02:02 PM

It's great to see that Anik has been contributing, but I can't help but wonder....

Have they given DirecTV12 access to a laptop, yet, so he can join us here??? :)

I'm also waiting for DirecTV12 and EaglePC. :)

Edited by FHSPSU67, 19 December 2009 - 08:24 AM.

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#1155 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 01:07 PM

Story on a Canadian web site about the Ciel/DirecTV dispute over who has rights to the frequencies, http://www.ottawacit...0836/story.html

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#1156 OFFLINE   Smthkd

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 08:20 PM

Seems like Ciel and Dish are up to no good and trying to cause problems with D* D12 slot. However, D* has a point, how can they justify approval over Canada and then say they have rights for US, Mexico, Central & South America and the Carribean! I thought they had to file for seperate authorizations for each country they plained to service and not speculate that approval for one slot automatically gave them access to all!?

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#1157 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 08:37 PM

Story on a Canadian web site about the Ciel/DirecTV dispute over who has rights to the frequencies, http://www.ottawacit...0836/story.html


Humm...

The article is rather general and not really accurate in reporting the nature of the dispute. Since it is not competition for an optimal satellite slot (in this case 103 nom. here) where the bone of contention lies, but the use of the newly authorized 17/24 GHz BSS band by two nations from the same GSO position which is.

It is also hard to believe that Ciel honestly thinks that simply because they were the first to be granted a BSS license by the ITU for the 103 slot this entitles them to indiscriminately rain radiation and in turn be guaranteed interference protection for their signal throughout the entire ITU region 3 from Canada to the Caribbean.

On the other hand I think Ciel obviously realizes though while totally unrealistic, it really needs such freedom especially for the northern regions of the U.S. in order to make BSS from 103 a viable nationwide service throughout Canada.

Otherwise if their signal is limited only to Canadian territory the best it could offer would be a patchy system of carefully focused spotbeams exclusively directed at different regions of Canada.

#1158 OFFLINE   Coca Cola Kid

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 09:10 PM

So will this lawsuit affect the launch date of D12, or is December 28 set in stone?

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#1159 OFFLINE   Smthkd

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 09:14 PM

No the launch will continue as plan! Ciel is disputing the use of the RB-2A parts from D12 and the freqencies it would use..

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#1160 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 09:17 PM

So will this lawsuit affect the launch date of D12, or is December 28 set in stone?


No, it won't affect the scheduled launch date, but the specific FCC authorization for DirecTV to operate the BSS RB-2A system has been deferred for now.

#1161 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 09:18 PM

No the launch will continue as plan! Ciel is disputing the use of the RB-2A parts from D12 and the freqencies it would use..


Barring technical problems with the launcher, the satellite itself or ground support equipment, the current date is as firm as it gets in the space launch business. :)

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#1162 OFFLINE   Coca Cola Kid

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 09:23 PM

Ok good. There's been enough delays already. Lets get this bird in the sky!

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#1163 OFFLINE   evan_s

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 01:21 AM

Ok good. There's been enough delays already. Lets get this bird in the sky!


The RB-2A, aka the bss package, on D12 is only a very small part of it and it is unclear at this point what it will even be used for. The national Tps and most of the spots are setup for KA usage. Really the bss package was a last minute addition and might even be just to push this issue with out having to really get anywhere along building another sat.

Just a thought but does anyone know which other bss slots are shared and which aren't? Sharing the same slot with Canada and Mexico or the Caribbean makes sense but sharing the same slot with Canada and Mexico puts them really close together and really ends up limiting one or both to only using spots which would primarily limit it to providing locals. This really doesn't seem like it uses the allocation more efficiently.

#1164 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 07:44 AM

Not directly related to the upcoming launch of D12 or the regulatory issues facing the RB-2A payload, but good reading for anyone interested in the financial and managerial aspects of the satellite launch biz . . .

http://www.ilslaunch...ce-Dec-2009.pdf

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#1165 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 07:58 AM

The RB-2A, aka the bss package, on D12 is only a very small part of it and it is unclear at this point what it will even be used for. The national Tps and most of the spots are setup for KA usage. Really the bss package was a last minute addition and might even be just to push this issue with out having to really get anywhere along building another sat.

Just a thought but does anyone know which other bss slots are shared and which aren't? Sharing the same slot with Canada and Mexico or the Caribbean makes sense but sharing the same slot with Canada and Mexico puts them really close together and really ends up limiting one or both to only using spots which would primarily limit it to providing locals. This really doesn't seem like it uses the allocation more efficiently.

The FCC approvals from 7/28/2009 ... the Notes are from early September last time I checked:

[table="header"]FCC Application|Company|Callsign|Slot|Notes
SAT-LOA-20050210-00031|Intelsat|S2662|91°|Surrendered
SAT-LOA-20060412-00042|Pegasus|S2698|91°|Surrendered
|
SAT-LOA-20060908-00099|DirecTV|S2711|99°|Paid
SAT-LOA-20050210-00029|Intelsat|S2660|99°|Surrendered
|
SAT-LOA-20060908-00100|DirecTV |S2712|103°|Paid
|
SAT-LOA-19970605-00049|DirecTV| S2242|107°|Surrendered
SAT-LOA-20020328-00052|EchoStar|S2442|107°|Paid
SAT-LOA-20060412-00043|Pegasus|S2699|107°|Surrendered
|
SAT-LOA-20020328-00051|EchoStar|S2441|111°|Paid
SAT-LOA-19970605-00050|DirecTV| S2243|111°|Paid
[/table]

Edited by Sixto, 20 December 2009 - 08:06 AM.

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#1166 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 08:07 AM

Good data from the FCC. I was digging around the ITU site earlier trying to see which particular slots might be shared among countries like 103 is, but I haven't had enough coffee to find what I need yet. :P

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#1167 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 08:09 AM

WOW - only 202 hours away now and counting...:D
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#1168 OFFLINE   Piratefan98

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 10:36 AM

You know, in the cut-throat world of satellite/cable, I'm surprised one of these sleazy cable companies hasn't hired a mercenary with one of those shoulder-mounted anti aircraft missile launchers to shoot down a DirecTV satellite launch. How much could a job like that cost? 50K? 100K?

#1169 OFFLINE   TheRatPatrol

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 10:42 AM

You know, in the cut-throat world of satellite/cable, I'm surprised one of these sleazy cable companies hasn't hired a mercenary with one of those shoulder-mounted anti aircraft missile launchers to shoot down a DirecTV satellite launch. How much could a job like that cost? 50K? 100K?

SHHHH!! Don't give them any ideas! :eek2:

#1170 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 11:23 AM

You know, in the cut-throat world of satellite/cable, I'm surprised one of these sleazy cable companies hasn't hired a mercenary with one of those shoulder-mounted anti aircraft missile launchers to shoot down a DirecTV satellite launch. How much could a job like that cost? 50K? 100K?


While all in fun of course, but can an antiaircraft missile even catch up to a rocket like the Proton? Early in its accent phase perhaps if a terrorist could get close enough to the launch pad, but about a minute or so after launch, the Proton is moving way too fast for any shoulder fired AA missile to catch I would think ... :)

#1171 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 11:29 AM

Good shoulder launcher could go high for 5 km altitude. ;) What is a time interval before Proton will reach the level ?

#1172 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 12:18 PM

Good shoulder launcher could go high for 5 km altitude. ;) What is a time interval before Proton will reach the level ?


Forget the altitude - they don't have the impulse to catch it unless launched in the first 20 seconds or so, from VERY close. ;)

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#1173 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 12:49 PM

BTW, in case anyone has some ideas;

Just studying over D12's "Schedule S" and I'm counting a sum total of up to 123 spotbeam transponders maximum, yet the specifications for D10, 11, and 12 always list only 55 active TWTAs (not counting the 15 spares) at 70 watts each to service the spotbeam transponders.

Even taking away Tps. assigned to the 5 spotbeams D12 will not be using at 103 brings the total Tps. count down to 110.

So what is this, around two spotbeam transponders share one TWTA between them? :confused:

I mean the Schedule S does give each spotbeam transponder's initial power output before the antenna feeder system loss at ~15.4 dbw or 35 watts which is 1/2 of 70 watts.

Appreciate any thoughts...

#1174 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 01:30 PM

Forget the altitude - they don't have the impulse to catch it unless launched in the first 20 seconds or so, from VERY close. ;)

It could, lets count speed of the Proton monster at 4 KM altitude and assume the AA gadget could fly with 2M speed and located at 4 KM off launch pad.

#1175 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 02:05 PM

It could, lets count speed of the Proton monster at 4 KM altitude and assume the AA gadget could fly with 2M speed and located at 4 KM off launch pad.


It's not the speed, it's the impulse and acceleration.

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