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HR 20 OTA Signal Problems NYC OTA CBS


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25 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   sjm994

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 10:47 AM

Anyone else have problems with HR 20's reception of CBS OTA in NYC? Signal strength fluctuates on only CBS 2-1 and transmission breaks up. All other stations strong and consistent. Have it on two separate DVR's.

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#2 OFFLINE   94SupraTT

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 03:41 PM

Anyone else have problems with HR 20's reception of CBS OTA in NYC? Signal strength fluctuates on only CBS 2-1 and transmission breaks up. All other stations strong and consistent. Have it on two separate DVR's.


My HR20 will not pick up my local CBS station either. It will pick up the substations (19-2, 19-3) however it won't pick up 19-1.

My HR10-250 has no issues picking up my local CBS station (19-1).
50" P50H401 Plasma / HR20-100
42" TH-42PX80U Plasma / HR10-250 hacked
32" FLM-323B LCD / HR10-250 hacked
DirecTivo SD-DVR40 (160GB/4.0.1b/HMO/etc, etc) - deactivated
DirecTivo R10 - inactive
Toshiba HD-A3 HD-DVD player

#3 OFFLINE   jwd45244

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 04:15 PM

Anyone else have problems with HR 20's reception of CBS OTA in NYC? Signal strength fluctuates on only CBS 2-1 and transmission breaks up. All other stations strong and consistent. Have it on two separate DVR's.


Here is one possibility. You might have a UHF antenna and the local CBS affiliate has switched to VHF. You can find this information out at www.tvfool.com If it has happened then you need a VHF/UHF antenna.

Hope this helps.
-- Jim D.
DirecTV sub. since 1998
Slimline w/ SWM LNB---- (mounted on CommDeck) ----> SWM Power Inserter -----> CM4002IFD Diplexer
Winegard OTA Antenna ------------------> CM7777 OTA Amplifier ----------------> CM4002IFD Diplexer
CM4002IFD Diplexer ----> STS-4 splitter ----> HR20-700 - Vizio VO32L, HR20-700 - SDTV, HR21-200 (w/ AM21) - Vizio VX42L, HR21-200 - SDTV; CM4001IFD as splitting diplexer on all legs; All networked

#4 OFFLINE   94SupraTT

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 04:58 PM

Here is one possibility. You might have a UHF antenna and the local CBS affiliate has switched to VHF. You can find this information out at www.tvfool.com If it has happened then you need a VHF/UHF antenna.

Hope this helps.


Both of my DVRs have UHF antennas, and according to the site you supplied all of my locals are UHF.

The HR20 is on an attic mounted antenna (U-75R) and my HR10-250 is on an indoor antenna (Silver Sensor).
50" P50H401 Plasma / HR20-100
42" TH-42PX80U Plasma / HR10-250 hacked
32" FLM-323B LCD / HR10-250 hacked
DirecTivo SD-DVR40 (160GB/4.0.1b/HMO/etc, etc) - deactivated
DirecTivo R10 - inactive
Toshiba HD-A3 HD-DVD player

#5 OFFLINE   Jerry Springer

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 08:07 AM

Reception 101

UHF is line of sight transmission. It does not go through buildings, it does not go around corners, it does not go up one hill and down the next. It does not receive well through trees with leaves on them.

It is not blocked by wood, but the moisture in the wood will block the signals.

A piece of aluminum flashing 6 inches wide can block your signal in the attic of your home.

The shingles do not block the signals, but the moisture under the shingles will.

A plastic pipe will not block the signal, but moisture inside of the pipe will.

If you have a building 4 or more stories high, it can block your signal.

Iron and Steel are conductors, but cement blocks the signal.

Building insulation with a foil backer will reflect signals away from your attic location and make your home Opaque to signals.

The bottom line is - the best way to receive a signal is by mounting your antenna at the proper position 10 feet above the main roof of the house and higher than the tree's in your neighborhood. Using a antenna rotor and some kind of pre amplifier to compensate line loss between the antenna and the television you wish to use to receive the signals.

UHF is line of sight. It shines like a beam of light. The earth is round, sooner or later, the beam of light - signal, no longer touches the earth, but travels out into space. Reception is dependent on three things.

Just like a beam of light, you have reflection, refraction and deflection.

If there is a inversion layer in the atmosphere, where one layer of the F portion of the atmosphere is hotter or cooler than the other due to heating from the sun or cooling from the earth, the signal will bounce off that layer and stay near the earth for a longer distance than normal reception.

This is called Tropospheric reception and it occures near the Ionosphere.

Ground fog also sometimes causes a inversion layer and also helps the signal to travel further than normal. Normal reception is about 45 miles and about the furthest you can usually expect good reception is about 60 miles.

VHF is ground following, it does go through buildings a little easier and it does travel further - with the same amount of transmit power. The problem is - the transmit power of VHF was reduced when the digital transition occurred.

VHF is susceptable to noise, all electrical noise causes problems with VHF.

Be it the neighbors lawnmower / motorcycle, the ignition in your automobile, a electric fence pulser, lightning, atmospheric conditions both on the ground and solar - such as solar flares.

To compensate for this, the FCC has allowed small increases in the past to compensate for this. Now they have relicensed some stations to a power increase as much as 300% and still the stations face a tough row to hoe.

If the FCC would have taken away all VHF and left the UHF alone, you would only need one small UHF antenna and some sort of Pre amp on your roof to get decent reception of all the channels in your area - that are possible to receive.

Because the FCC made this mess and will not admit that they made a mistake, you are stuck with what you have because the high UHF frequency's have already been sold to the highest bidder - cell phone companies and cannot be recovered.

The area a television station occupies is 6 Mhz. In that 6 Mhz, you have enough room for one High Definition station and two sub stations - such as RTV or This network, or in the case of the PBS stations - a regular PBS station. A cooking / gardening station ( Create) and a public interest station (World).

Digital television once transmitted travels at the speed of light. Anything that comes between the transmitter and the receive antenna slows down that speed, as does the wire that carries the signal from the antenna to the television.

With analog television, any disruptions of the signal resulted in snow - static - white noise, but still a watchable picture and sound.

With digital television - it is all or nothing. If you loose one portion of a data stream - it's just like having a scratch on a Compact Disc. The picture and sound starts and stops - because the tuner is trying to guess what the missing portion of the signal might be. When you corrupt too much of the signal, you get no signal at all.

Your only option for this is to get your antenna as high up as possible, away from all the noise. Properly ground the antenna and the coax going into the house. Use a antenna rotor to properly orientate the antenna towards the signal and use the best connectors to connect the antenna to the coax and some kind of pre amp to compensate for the loss of signal in the wire between the antenna and the television.

#6 OFFLINE   sjm994

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 09:22 AM

Just to clarify. Every other station but CBS comes in fine with strong signal strength. CBS fluctuates between 75 and 0. Goes up and down on both DVR's constantly. Have antenna on roof and never had problem until switch to digital this summer. Assume antenna is uhf/vhf. Should I get new roof antenna?

#7 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 10:06 AM

Just to clarify. Every other station but CBS comes in fine with strong signal strength. CBS fluctuates between 75 and 0. Goes up and down on both DVR's constantly. Have antenna on roof and never had problem until switch to digital this summer. Assume antenna is uhf/vhf. Should I get new roof antenna?


Here's your problem in the bold...that sounds like multi-path issues..try adjusting the direction of your antenna a bit to see if you can cut down on the multi-path interference.

#8 OFFLINE   94SupraTT

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 07:18 PM

A D* rep came out today and fixed my problem.

Oddly enough I had 100% signal strength but 19-1 would not come in. 19-2 would. My problem was a bad coax cable. I was using a RG59 cable, the D* rep changed it out for a RG6 cable and all was well. Not sure why the RG59 cable just stopped working but it did. Oddly enough the RG59 cable carried the signal but for whatever reason the channel would not come in.
50" P50H401 Plasma / HR20-100
42" TH-42PX80U Plasma / HR10-250 hacked
32" FLM-323B LCD / HR10-250 hacked
DirecTivo SD-DVR40 (160GB/4.0.1b/HMO/etc, etc) - deactivated
DirecTivo R10 - inactive
Toshiba HD-A3 HD-DVD player

#9 OFFLINE   sjm994

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 07:45 AM

Didn't know D reps came out for OTA problems.

#10 OFFLINE   94SupraTT

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 07:56 PM

Didn't know D reps came out for OTA problems.

That is actually what he said when he got there. He said they didn't guarantee OTA. After some troubleshooting he narrowed it down to the coax cable. He said his ticket said "no sat signal" so he was surprised to see it was an OTA issue.
50" P50H401 Plasma / HR20-100
42" TH-42PX80U Plasma / HR10-250 hacked
32" FLM-323B LCD / HR10-250 hacked
DirecTivo SD-DVR40 (160GB/4.0.1b/HMO/etc, etc) - deactivated
DirecTivo R10 - inactive
Toshiba HD-A3 HD-DVD player

#11 OFFLINE   JoeCraw

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 11:45 AM

I had a HR20-700 that received OTA off my roof top antenna for over a year without any problems (and for a few years with my Tivo HR10). 3 weeks ago it was only able get 1 or 2 channels. Since the HR20 has no OTA signal strength meter I brought another TV into the room (with a ATSC tuner) and plugged it in. Sure enough I was getting signal strengths from 83 to 91 and every channel came in. I called Dtv and after 45 minutes on the phone got them to agree to send me another DVR. They sent a HR20-100 and for about 1 week it received my OTA channels. Now it too has problems getting my OTA signal. I again dragged down my other TV and it still was getting signal strengths from 83 to 91.
What is going on?
Has DirecTv done something in a software update that has hurt the sensitivity of the OTA tuner?
What do I do?

#12 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 11:58 AM

1st off the HR20's do indeed have an OTA signal strength meter built right in, go to setup, sat and ant, antenna setup, maybe its redo antenna setup, then signal meter..what you might need to do is re-run the entire OTA antenna setup routine.

#13 OFFLINE   JoeCraw

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 12:20 PM

Could you please send me the menu steps to get there. I could not find it myself and when I spoke to Dtv tech support they said it didn't have one.
I have tried going to:
Parental, Favs, Setup ->
System setup ->
Sat & Antenna ->
View Signal Strength
The only strength signal it shows are the satellite signal strengths.

I also tried redoing the antenna setup, which also did not show a signal strength meter.



Thanks,
Joe

#14 OFFLINE   TBlazer07

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 05:10 PM

You ALMOST had it ... It's really buried:

Menu Button
Parental Favs & Setup
System Setup
Sat and Antenna
Antenna Setup
Edit Off-Air channels
!!! Signal meter !!!!




Could you please send me the menu steps to get there. I could not find it myself and when I spoke to Dtv tech support they said it didn't have one.
I have tried going to:
Parental, Favs, Setup ->
System setup ->
Sat & Antenna ->
View Signal Strength
The only strength signal it shows are the satellite signal strengths.

I also tried redoing the antenna setup, which also did not show a signal strength meter.



Thanks,
Joe



#15 OFFLINE   JoeCraw

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 06:46 PM

Found it!!
But none of the channels have any strength at all and it says 'not acquired'

#16 OFFLINE   David MacLeod

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 06:55 PM

Found it!!
But none of the channels have any strength at all and it says 'not acquired'


are you posting this in another thread too?
http://www.dbstalk.c...085#post2241085

getting confusing :(
Dave MacLeod
S.I.H.

#17 OFFLINE   JoeCraw

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 07:47 PM

Yes. That me too.
Sorry for the confusion.

As of now, I have found the signal strength meter, but the strength on every channel is 'not acquired'. But if I hook a ATSC tv up I get every channel with strengths between the low 80s to low 90s.

#18 OFFLINE   sjm994

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 12:55 PM

Reset your OTA channels from scratch. Have the receiver do a complete new search for the OTA channels.

#19 OFFLINE   JoeCraw

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 06:08 AM

I have tried resetting the tuner (by unplugging it) and choosing reset in the Antenna Setup menu. I then re-ran Antenna setup. I still get nothing. No channels and 'Not Acquired' on the OTA signal strength meter.

#20 OFFLINE   David MacLeod

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 06:34 AM

what are you using for an antenna and does it work on any other tuner like a tv itself?
Dave MacLeod
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