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C.A.L.M (Commercial Advertisement Loudness Mitigation)

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44 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 07:16 AM

How about this? When they go to commercial, your set auto-mutes and those who want to hear would have to hit the mute button to un-mute and hear the ads. :)
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#27 OFFLINE   shedberg

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 07:36 AM

I have sent emails to the program manager at local stations with loud commercials and they have always responded to my emails and the problem usually goes away the day after my email.

#28 OFFLINE   MysteryMan

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 07:45 AM

By the time congress makes this happen we'll all be tone deaf.

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#29 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 08:36 AM

By the time congress makes this happen we'll all be tone deaf.

!rolling

What? Huh? Did you say something? :lol:

The fact that the industry would require an act of Congress to address this long-time major annoyance says plenty about just how responsive they are to the American public.

Hallelujah.
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#30 OFFLINE   kenglish

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 03:48 PM

!rolling

What? Huh? Did you say something? :lol:

The fact that the industry would require an act of Congress to address this long-time major annoyance says plenty about just how responsive they are to the American public.

Hallelujah.


The "industry" has been working on an answer to this for years. The answer has always been, "crank the dynamic range out of the program, so it matches the commercial". Congress always thinks their answer is "simple". But, it just means that the programs will sound bad.
There's still no way to legislate taste, or loudness.

#31 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 03:50 PM

The "industry" has been working on an answer to this for years. The answer has always been, "crank the dynamic range out of the program, so it matches the commercial". Congress always thinks their answer is "simple". But, it just means that the programs will sound bad.
There's still no way to legislate taste, or loudness.

Hmmm....that's interesting. I guess having a DB sound range standard wouldn't work then. ;)
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#32 OFFLINE   kenglish

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 10:12 AM

Nope. It has to match the (perceived) sound level of the programming that precedes, and that follows, the announcement.
That's why no one has ever been able to come up with a real solution.
It's all too subjective.

Dolby had the right idea, with Dialogue Normalization, but some people aren't even satisfied with that.

#33 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 10:15 AM

Nope. It has to match the (perceived) sound level of the programming that precedes, and that follows, the announcement.
That's why no one has ever been able to come up with a real solution.
It's all too subjective.

Dolby had the right idea, with Dialogue Normalization, but some people aren't even satisfied with that.

Wondering why a simple signal can't be sent to a receiver, especially those with noise max limits built in already, to restrict the volume.

I'm still convinced that if the right limited range of DB for commercials was set universally, the problem could be controlled.
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#34 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 02:21 PM

I still can't figure out why TBS (for example) is at a different volume level than A&E (for example). Why can't Dish, Direct, Comcast, et al equalize the volume levels on all channels delivered to their subscribers. They receive them all, retransmit them, turn them on or off, insert their own ads, etc., so why can't they adjust the levels?
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#35 OFFLINE   kenglish

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 03:16 PM

Wondering why a simple signal can't be sent to a receiver, especially those with noise max limits built in already, to restrict the volume.....


That's sort of what Dolby Digital does. The normal level of dialogue (an average voice...not shouting, not whispering) is set as a standard. Levels are held to a point that matches that....a standard voice always will come out at the same level, every time, on every channel.

The "magic" is, that standard level can be TRANSMITTED at different levels, to allow for headroom in the system, allowing for more headroom during, say, an explosion or whatever. The DD bitstream carries metadata that pulls the volume back to the correct level right in your receiver.
The second part of the "magic' is, the audio is sent with full dynamic range, but the producer can specify how to restrict the dynamics at your receiver, and the bitstream carries a control voltage to your receiver that pulls up the quiet sounds, and lowers the high volume sounds, all centered on the standard "normal voice level" dialogue. So, when you listen in "Midnight Mode" (or, whatever your receiver maker calls it), the dynamic range is reduced. And, if just listening to stereo or mono from a converter box, it can be restricted even more. The guy with the big HT system still hears full dynamic range, but you can set your own system for limited dynamics (still artistically-controlled by the producers), and it all comes from one transmitted digital audio stream.
They also tell your receiver how to downmix the 5.1 (or, whatever) to stereo or mono, under the direction of the audio producer.

Dolby also has methods that we use to measure "Equivalent Loudness", and that is what really needs to match. A quiet scene, going to a normal commercial, is always going to be jarring, and a commercial leading in to a loud scene is also going to stand out. Both sound "wrong", but are really being sent at the same "volume" level, as far as any measurements (besides "Loudness Equivalence") are concerned.

#36 OFFLINE   HIPAR

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 08:56 PM

You turn up the volume so you can hear soft dialog in the presence of background sounds and music and get blasted when the commercial comes on.

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But I don't want to go among mad people

#37 OFFLINE   Drucifer

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 09:56 PM

My mother has pass. She was one that truly hated loud commercials. So I would say, they're a few decades LATE!

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#38 OFFLINE   kenglish

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 11:13 AM

You turn up the volume so you can hear soft dialog in the presence of background sounds and music and get blasted when the commercial comes on.
--- CHAS


That ain't how it's supposed to be, for sure.
Using the Dolby Digital DialNorm correctly should limit it. If watching at a time when too much dynamic range would be a problem, use "Midnight Mode" (as some manufacturers call it), to limit the huge swings.

#39 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 11:32 AM

Remains to be seen how well this will (or won't) work.

Now if we could just get a stop to the tampering with closing credits so we could read the cast and guest star names, the overlapping of program starts and ends and incessant bugs and promos that interfere with the programs themselves.
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#40 OFFLINE   Blurayfan

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 08:06 PM

Status of bill changed. The 111th Congress (House and Senate) passed the bill, passed version PDF added to first post.

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#41 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 10:54 PM

Status of bill changed. The 111th Congress (House and Senate) passed the bill, passed version PDF added to first post.

The president signed the bill last month ...

12/2/2010: Cleared for White House.
12/3/2010: Presented to President.
12/15/2010: Signed by President.
12/15/2010: Became Public Law No: 111-311.

http://thomas.loc.go...11:SN02847:@@@X

#42 OFFLINE   Blurayfan

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 11:05 PM

The president signed the bill last month ...

12/2/2010: Cleared for White House.
12/3/2010: Presented to President.
12/15/2010: Signed by President.
12/15/2010: Became Public Law No: 111-311.

http://thomas.loc.go...11:SN02847:@@@X


Thanks James for the extra details.
Updated OP.

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#43 OFFLINE   HIPAR

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 08:17 PM

If you can show audio peaks on the commercials set more bits than does the program material, you can cite the media provider as not being in compliance with the law. This is straightforwardly measurable.

But, there are well known techniques that compress the peaks allowing the average power in the modulating signal envelope to increase. So it's possible to make the commercial audio sound louder even if the audio peaks don't set as many bits.

That's more the essence of perceived loudness.

The FCC handles the complex technical details of a simply worded law. So, somehow, they must determine exactly what loudness is and establish a technical standard for measuring it though its rule making process.

--- CHAS
But I don't want to go among mad people

#44 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 10:59 PM

Monday, June 06, 2011Last Update: 1:46 PM PT

FCC to Shush Commercials
By TRAVIS SANFORD

WASHINGTON (CN) - TV broadcasters will have to turn down the volume on commercials, at least to the level of the programs they accompany, according to a proposed rule issued by the Federal Communications Commission.
The FCC must adopt regulations requiring broadcasters to limit the volume on the transmission of commercials by Dec. 15, 2011 to comply with the Commercial Advertisement Loudness Mitigation (CALM) Act.
Congress passed the Act in response to viewer complaints about the sudden increase in volume during commercial breaks.
According to the FCC, change in volume at commercial breaks has been a long standing complaint of viewers. The problem appears to have been exacerbated by digital broadcasting technology, which allows the creators of programs and commercials to encode more dynamic sound options than were possible during the age of analog TV transmissions.
By mandating that commercials can not be louder than the programs they accompany, the FCC says the Act allows it to avoid making subjective judgments about the overall volume of broadcasts.
Broadcasters, including cable and satellite services, will have one year to implement the agency's final regulations.
The FCC is requesting public comments on implementation of the Act's requirements until July 5, 2011.

http://www.courthous...06/06/37131.htm

FCC Document: http://www.gpo.gov/f.../2011-13822.htm
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#45 OFFLINE   Blurayfan

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 07:04 PM

FCC acts to quiet blaring TV commercials

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