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C.A.L.M (Commercial Advertisement Loudness Mitigation)

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44 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 06:45 PM

Reporting from Washington —

Taking aim at a national annoyance, Congress has sent President Obama legislation that lowers the volume on loud TV ads.
"Consumers have been asking for a solution to this problem for decades, and today they finally have it,'' said Rep. Anna G. Eshoo (D-Menlo Park), chief sponsor of the Commercial Advertisement Loudness Mitigation, or CALM, Act.


http://www.latimes.c...0,7086074.story

I don't see it really helping anything.

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#22 OFFLINE   trh

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 09:41 PM

I don't see it really helping anything.


Probably need to give it a chance first. The bill hasn't been passed yet and advertisers have 1 year to implement it.

#23 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 10:38 AM

Probably need to give it a chance first. The bill hasn't been passed yet and advertisers have 1 year to implement it.


It doesn't change the issue of commercial volume though. It just says they can't be higher than what TV shows are allowed to be at. TV shows use different sound ranges. Commercials go full blast so again I really don't see it doing anything. Reducing volume 1-5 db will not really do much.

#24 OFFLINE   trh

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 11:33 AM

Lets hope the regulations the FCC has to develop as a result of this bill take that into account.

#25 OFFLINE   kenglish

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 07:00 AM

Trouble is, there's no way to take in to account how "loud" the program was preceding the commercial, or how "loud" it will be after the commercial, or how the the mood of the program relates to the commercial.
So, stations will likely just boost the levels of the program to max, matching the commercials. That takes away all the dynamic range of the program itself.

There are already methods in place to substantially regulate the "volume", using Dolby Digital, by matching levels of normal dialogue. Trouble is, everybody's tastes are different, and "if you don't want to hear the commercial, then it's always TOO LOUD".

#26 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 07:16 AM

How about this? When they go to commercial, your set auto-mutes and those who want to hear would have to hit the mute button to un-mute and hear the ads. :)
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#27 OFFLINE   shedberg

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 07:36 AM

I have sent emails to the program manager at local stations with loud commercials and they have always responded to my emails and the problem usually goes away the day after my email.

#28 OFFLINE   MysteryMan

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 07:45 AM

By the time congress makes this happen we'll all be tone deaf.

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#29 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 08:36 AM

By the time congress makes this happen we'll all be tone deaf.

!rolling

What? Huh? Did you say something? :lol:

The fact that the industry would require an act of Congress to address this long-time major annoyance says plenty about just how responsive they are to the American public.

Hallelujah.
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#30 OFFLINE   kenglish

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 03:48 PM

!rolling

What? Huh? Did you say something? :lol:

The fact that the industry would require an act of Congress to address this long-time major annoyance says plenty about just how responsive they are to the American public.

Hallelujah.


The "industry" has been working on an answer to this for years. The answer has always been, "crank the dynamic range out of the program, so it matches the commercial". Congress always thinks their answer is "simple". But, it just means that the programs will sound bad.
There's still no way to legislate taste, or loudness.

#31 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 03:50 PM

The "industry" has been working on an answer to this for years. The answer has always been, "crank the dynamic range out of the program, so it matches the commercial". Congress always thinks their answer is "simple". But, it just means that the programs will sound bad.
There's still no way to legislate taste, or loudness.

Hmmm....that's interesting. I guess having a DB sound range standard wouldn't work then. ;)
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#32 OFFLINE   kenglish

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 10:12 AM

Nope. It has to match the (perceived) sound level of the programming that precedes, and that follows, the announcement.
That's why no one has ever been able to come up with a real solution.
It's all too subjective.

Dolby had the right idea, with Dialogue Normalization, but some people aren't even satisfied with that.

#33 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 10:15 AM

Nope. It has to match the (perceived) sound level of the programming that precedes, and that follows, the announcement.
That's why no one has ever been able to come up with a real solution.
It's all too subjective.

Dolby had the right idea, with Dialogue Normalization, but some people aren't even satisfied with that.

Wondering why a simple signal can't be sent to a receiver, especially those with noise max limits built in already, to restrict the volume.

I'm still convinced that if the right limited range of DB for commercials was set universally, the problem could be controlled.
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#34 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 02:21 PM

I still can't figure out why TBS (for example) is at a different volume level than A&E (for example). Why can't Dish, Direct, Comcast, et al equalize the volume levels on all channels delivered to their subscribers. They receive them all, retransmit them, turn them on or off, insert their own ads, etc., so why can't they adjust the levels?
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#35 OFFLINE   kenglish

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 03:16 PM

Wondering why a simple signal can't be sent to a receiver, especially those with noise max limits built in already, to restrict the volume.....


That's sort of what Dolby Digital does. The normal level of dialogue (an average voice...not shouting, not whispering) is set as a standard. Levels are held to a point that matches that....a standard voice always will come out at the same level, every time, on every channel.

The "magic" is, that standard level can be TRANSMITTED at different levels, to allow for headroom in the system, allowing for more headroom during, say, an explosion or whatever. The DD bitstream carries metadata that pulls the volume back to the correct level right in your receiver.
The second part of the "magic' is, the audio is sent with full dynamic range, but the producer can specify how to restrict the dynamics at your receiver, and the bitstream carries a control voltage to your receiver that pulls up the quiet sounds, and lowers the high volume sounds, all centered on the standard "normal voice level" dialogue. So, when you listen in "Midnight Mode" (or, whatever your receiver maker calls it), the dynamic range is reduced. And, if just listening to stereo or mono from a converter box, it can be restricted even more. The guy with the big HT system still hears full dynamic range, but you can set your own system for limited dynamics (still artistically-controlled by the producers), and it all comes from one transmitted digital audio stream.
They also tell your receiver how to downmix the 5.1 (or, whatever) to stereo or mono, under the direction of the audio producer.

Dolby also has methods that we use to measure "Equivalent Loudness", and that is what really needs to match. A quiet scene, going to a normal commercial, is always going to be jarring, and a commercial leading in to a loud scene is also going to stand out. Both sound "wrong", but are really being sent at the same "volume" level, as far as any measurements (besides "Loudness Equivalence") are concerned.

#36 OFFLINE   HIPAR

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 08:56 PM

You turn up the volume so you can hear soft dialog in the presence of background sounds and music and get blasted when the commercial comes on.

--- CHAS
But I don't want to go among mad people

#37 OFFLINE   Drucifer

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 09:56 PM

My mother has pass. She was one that truly hated loud commercials. So I would say, they're a few decades LATE!

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#38 OFFLINE   kenglish

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 11:13 AM

You turn up the volume so you can hear soft dialog in the presence of background sounds and music and get blasted when the commercial comes on.
--- CHAS


That ain't how it's supposed to be, for sure.
Using the Dolby Digital DialNorm correctly should limit it. If watching at a time when too much dynamic range would be a problem, use "Midnight Mode" (as some manufacturers call it), to limit the huge swings.

#39 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 11:32 AM

Remains to be seen how well this will (or won't) work.

Now if we could just get a stop to the tampering with closing credits so we could read the cast and guest star names, the overlapping of program starts and ends and incessant bugs and promos that interfere with the programs themselves.
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#40 OFFLINE   Blurayfan

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 08:06 PM

Status of bill changed. The 111th Congress (House and Senate) passed the bill, passed version PDF added to first post.

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