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Guest Message by DevFuse

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7.1 analog output


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35 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   OptimusPrime

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 09:14 AM

Hello!

I have a friend with a Sony BDPS350. He is upset that he cannot experience Dolby TruHD because his AVR (a Harmon Kardon model) does not accept HDMI. So, I told him he can either upgrade his receiver to one that accepts HDMI, or look into a Blu-ray player that has analog multi-channel outputs.

Problem is - these Blur-ray players appear to be more costly than those without the analog jacks.

Any suggestions for affordable Blu-ray players with analog outputs? He asked about the PS3, but I don't think it has analog jacks.

Thanks!

P.S. - At some point, I'll eventually purchase a Blu-ray player - but I want to make sure it would work right with my receiver - the Denon AVR 3300. Anybody out there successfully setup their Blu-ray with this type of receiver using the analog jacks?

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#2 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 09:16 AM

I don't know if this helps or hurts the topic, but I've got a Sony BDPS350 and a receiver that doesn't accept HDMI. I use the optical out and while I admit the system isn't the greatest, I think it works really well using DTS over optical.
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#3 OFFLINE   wilbur_the_goose

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 09:44 AM

Optimus,
I have a Denon AVR-5803, and my Blu-Ray is connected via Toslink.

I honestly don't think the sound could be any better than it is. I think you'll be fine

(just make sure you have good speakers and room acoustics - these are much more important than the new audio formats to getting good audio)

#4 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 09:53 AM

The LG BD390 offers 7 channel output and can decode DTS HD and Dolby True HD. I think the street price is around $250.
/steve

#5 OFFLINE   OptimusPrime

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 10:01 AM

My friend, sometimes to a fault - always wants the best. I too, at times - get the "gimmies." His current set-up is awesome, but I think he's more frustrated at the fact that he "thought" he had a 7.1 system, and it is being underutilized due to improper set-up/decoding, etc. He wants a solution to get Dolby TruHD, but I can't think of another solution other than the one I already gave him.

On my old setup, I used an LG tv that passed 5.1/DTS through the optical output. Sounded awesome. I've since upgraded to better speakers and a new TV. At the time, I had no idea that this was uncommon to most TV's. My new Samsung has a far better picture, but only passes through 2 channel stereo via optical - so anything and everything has to go directly to the receiver to get 5.1 and DTS (which isn't a problem except for the fact that I have to buy a converter plug for my Xbox 360 - not happy about this).

When the time/price is right, I'll get a Blu-ray - I'm just really curious if anyone was able to connect using the analog jacks and what the level of quality is. My receiver will have one remaining unused optical port, so if need be, I can always plug into there for 5.1 and DTS - but, if it is better to go through the RCA jacks to get all 8 channels, uncompressed and sounding incredible, I'd rather go that route.

#6 OFFLINE   mutelight

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 11:18 AM

The Samsung BD-P3600 has 7.1 analog out with onboard decoding of the latest lossless formats.

http://www.amazon.co...ag=cnet-2342-20

Another option is the Pioneer BDP-320.

http://www.amazon.co...I/ref=de_a_smtd
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#7 OFFLINE   tnsprin

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 12:21 PM

Optimus,
I have a Denon AVR-5803, and my Blu-Ray is connected via Toslink.

I honestly don't think the sound could be any better than it is. I think you'll be fine

(just make sure you have good speakers and room acoustics - these are much more important than the new audio formats to getting good audio)


You need to hear a high-end receiver that supports the HDMI (or analog) connection from a Blu-Ray player playing these new codecs. The difference is significant.

I have a Denon-5800 and a Denon 4308CI.
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#8 OFFLINE   olguy

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 12:32 PM

My friend, sometimes to a fault - always wants the best. I too, at times - get the "gimmies." His current set-up is awesome, but I think he's more frustrated at the fact that he "thought" he had a 7.1 system, and it is being underutilized due to improper set-up/decoding, etc. He wants a solution to get Dolby TruHD, but I can't think of another solution other than the one I already gave him.

On my old setup, I used an LG tv that passed 5.1/DTS through the optical output. Sounded awesome. I've since upgraded to better speakers and a new TV. At the time, I had no idea that this was uncommon to most TV's. My new Samsung has a far better picture, but only passes through 2 channel stereo via optical - so anything and everything has to go directly to the receiver to get 5.1 and DTS (which isn't a problem except for the fact that I have to buy a converter plug for my Xbox 360 - not happy about this).

When the time/price is right, I'll get a Blu-ray - I'm just really curious if anyone was able to connect using the analog jacks and what the level of quality is. My receiver will have one remaining unused optical port, so if need be, I can always plug into there for 5.1 and DTS - but, if it is better to go through the RCA jacks to get all 8 channels, uncompressed and sounding incredible, I'd rather go that route.

Several folks posting in this AVS thread are using the analog 7.1 on the Panasonic BD80. Amazon has it now for $299.95. Official Panasonic DMP-BD60/80 Owners Thread - AVS Forum
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#9 OFFLINE   Cholly

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 01:04 PM

P.S. - At some point, I'll eventually purchase a Blu-ray player - but I want to make sure it would work right with my receiver - the Denon AVR 3300. Anybody out there successfully setup their Blu-ray with this type of receiver using the analog jacks?


You can use any Blu-ray player that has component video and optical audio outputs with your Denon. However, you will not get 7.1 audio. That is available only via HDMI inputs. You can, however, enjoy 5.1 audio with it.
Best bet for an outstanding Blu-ray player at a reasonable price is the Panasonic DMP-BD60K. You can get it from Amazon for $127.30 as of today, with free shipping.

For a player with 7.1 analog output, look no further than the Panasonic DMP-BD80K. You can get it from www.bhphotovideo.com for $189.95 with free shipping. The only player rated higher is the Oppo.

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Bedroom: Vizio 42" 3D TV, Pioneer VSX-521-K AVR, Panasonic 3D DVD player, Energy Take Classic 5.1 speakers, Roku 2 XD, TiVo Premiere, Insignia HD radio tuner, Toshiba HD DVD player


#10 OFFLINE   mutelight

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 03:01 PM

You need to hear a high-end receiver that supports the HDMI (or analog) connection from a Blu-Ray player playing these new codecs. The difference is significant.

I have a Denon-5800 and a Denon 4308CI.


Agreed, the imaging is much more open and seamless and the dynamic range is very impressive. They do undoubtedly reproduce better sound but whether it is all the significant is down the the configuration of the whole system as well as the listener themselves.

The other week I replaced my Denon with a Pioneer SC-25 and I can hear a massive difference in the sound quality whereas some of my friends claim it sounds the same.
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#11 OFFLINE   Grentz

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 03:04 PM

It depends on more than just the connection/sound format. You also need to have a good receiver, good speakers, etc. to tell the differences.
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#12 OFFLINE   OptimusPrime

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 04:36 PM

My Denon AVR 3300, in addition to the 3 optical inputs, does have 8 analog inputs - they are labeled as front L/R, surround L/R, effect L/R, C, and sub - so, I assume it would work with a Blu-ray player that has 7.1 channel analog output.

It would be awesome in MonoPrice or BlueJeans would offer a kind of "all-in-one" RCA analog surround cable connection for this application.


Oops. It appears that Blue Jeans does offer this type of cable (too bad it's over 100 bucks!)

Edited by OptimusPrime, 28 December 2009 - 04:44 PM.


#13 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 05:46 PM

[...] Oops. It appears that Blue Jeans does offer this type of cable (too bad it's over 100 bucks!)

Lots of cheaper ones here.
/steve

#14 OFFLINE   mutelight

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 06:28 PM

My Denon AVR 3300, in addition to the 3 optical inputs, does have 8 analog inputs - they are labeled as front L/R, surround L/R, effect L/R, C, and sub - so, I assume it would work with a Blu-ray player that has 7.1 channel analog output.)


That will indeed work. :D
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#15 OFFLINE   tralfaz

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 07:26 PM

I think he's more frustrated at the fact that he "thought" he had a 7.1 system, and it is being underutilized due to improper set-up/decoding, etc.


You can use any Blu-ray player that has component video and optical audio outputs with your Denon. However, you will not get 7.1 audio. That is available only via HDMI inputs. You can, however, enjoy 5.1 audio with it.


I think there's a bit of confusion here. The new (HD) audio formats have nothing to do with 7.1. If a DVD or Blu Ray has 7.1 channel DD or DTS, you'll get it via optical. You can also use PLIIx to convert a 5.1 track to 7.1 (regardless of whether it's via HDMI or optical).

Optical won't, however transmit the new audio formats (DD TrueHD, DTS-MA), you need HDMI (or analog) to do that. It's not the same thing as 7.1, however. Many people have been using 7.1 long before these new codecs came (and before HDMI, as well).

As to the sound difference, it's mainly dependent upon your equipment and your room. DD and DTS can sound very good. The lossless audio is almost always better. Some people can't tell the difference between Blu Ray and SD-DVD either. Some people think it's night and day.

Edited by tralfaz, 28 December 2009 - 07:48 PM.


#16 OFFLINE   wilbur_the_goose

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 07:39 PM

Big question - how many BD's have the new CODECs?

I watched "Express" in DD 5.1 on Saturday, and it sounded 100x better than any movie theater I've been in.

Again - the most important things are your speakers and room acoustics.

PS - I have the new Sony BCP-CX960 400 BD/DVD changer - it outputs at 96kHz and it sounds SWEET

#17 OFFLINE   tralfaz

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 07:48 PM

Big question - how many BD's have the new CODECs?


Most BD's have either DTS-MA, DD True-HD, or LPCM which are all lossless codecs. Obviously, there's some with only DD or DTS, but most (especially those released in the last year or so) have a lossless choice.

#18 OFFLINE   mutelight

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 08:02 PM

I think there's a bit of confusion here. The new (HD) audio formats have nothing to do with 7.1. If a DVD or Blu Ray has 7.1 channel DD or DTS, you'll get it via optical. You can also use PLIIx to convert a 5.1 track to 7.1 (regardless of whether it's via HDMI or optical).

Optical won't, however transmit the new audio formats (DD TrueHD, DTS-MA), you need HDMI (or analog) to do that. It's not the same thing as 7.1, however. Many people have been using 7.1 long before these new codecs came (and before HDMI, as well).

As to the sound difference, it's mainly dependent upon your equipment and your room. DD and DTS can sound very good. The lossless audio is almost always better. Some people can't tell the difference between Blu Ray and SD-DVD either. Some people think it's night and day.


No confusion because there are no DVDs with anything more than Dolby Digital EX which is matrixed 6.1 and DTS ES which is a mixture of 6.1 discrete and matrixed, depending on the mix.

Before these codecs there were no discrete 7.1 formats. Those that were listening in 7.1 long before were relying on their AVRs to upmix the audio on the disc.

Big question - how many BD's have the new CODECs?

I watched "Express" in DD 5.1 on Saturday, and it sounded 100x better than any movie theater I've been in.

Again - the most important things are your speakers and room acoustics.

PS - I have the new Sony BCP-CX960 400 BD/DVD changer - it outputs at 96kHz and it sounds SWEET


Out of the over 150 movies I own as well as show seasons, there is only one that does not have either Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD MA, or LPCM audio.

*edit* Here is a great list of what format, bit depth, sample rate, and the number of channels in the mix for BD movies.
http://www.blu-rayst...Stats/Stats.php

Edited by mutelight, 28 December 2009 - 08:13 PM.

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#19 OFFLINE   tralfaz

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 08:17 PM

No confusion because there are no DVDs with anything more than Dolby Digital EX which is matrixed 6.1 and DTS ES which is a mixture of 6.1 discrete and matrixed, depending on the mix.

Before these codecs there were no discrete 7.1 formats. Those that were listening in 7.1 long before were relying on their AVRs to upmix the audio on the disc.


Agreed. Just re-read my post and confused myself. What I meant was that the new codecs do not necessarily mean 7.1 (which seems to be what people were implying). Most BD's that have the new codecs aren't in 7.1, they're in 5.1 anyway (while the list of 7.1 seems to be growing), and you have to use the same processing to get 7.1 that you would use with optical. It's not that optical can't handle 7.1 (if DD and/or DTS would have released a lossy 7.1 codec, optical would have worked fine theoretically), it can't handle lossless. It just so happens that 7.1 was never made available in the old format (they started working on HD audio in 2004) or optical should have been able to carry it if they had.

In other words, you can get 7.1 via optical if your receiver does the processing, but it won't be lossless. And just because you are using HDMI (or analog) and getting the lossless audio, doesn't mean you're getting 7.1.

#20 OFFLINE   mutelight

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 08:29 PM

Agreed. Just re-read my post and confused myself. What I meant was that the new codecs do not necessarily mean 7.1 (which seems to be what people were implying). Most BD's that have the new codecs aren't in 7.1, they're in 5.1 anyway (while the list of 7.1 seems to be growing), and you have to use the same processing to get 7.1 that you would use with optical. It's not that optical can't handle 7.1 (if DD and/or DTS would have released a lossy 7.1 codec, optical would have worked fine theoretically), it can't handle lossless. It just so happens that 7.1 was never made available in the old format (they started working on HD audio in 2004) or optical should have been able to carry it if they had.

In other words, you can get 7.1 via optical if your receiver does the processing, but it won't be lossless. And just because you are using HDMI (or analog) and getting the lossless audio, doesn't mean you're getting 7.1.


Gotcha, you are indeed correct. :cool:

Optical could technically handle lossless 7.1 audio (in regards to bandwidth) as well but since it was a finalized spec with millions of devices already out on the market, the TOSLINK specification had to be adhered to.
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