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Guest Message by DevFuse

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RG6 Coaxial cable recommended for DirecTv HDDVR


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21 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   dbdreams

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 03:43 PM

The current cablling in the house, one is RG6 cable which reads "RG6 2200 MHZ E113333A 18 AWG Type CM, CL2 or CATV (UL) C(UL) Type CMG" the other cable is black with no writing but seems to be the same deminsions. I know RG6 18 is used and I am not sure about the othe numbers and letters meanings but I am concerned about the 2200 MHZ. I know some RG6 is 3 GHZ which I assume is better or will the 2200 MHZ be sufficient?

No writing on the second cable is there a way to verify?

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#2 OFFLINE   BattleZone

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 03:56 PM

DirecTV recommends RG6 solid-copper-center-conductor dual-shield with 60% braid coverage or better, swept-tested to 3 GHz.

Having said that, most RG6 will work fine as long as the run isn't too long. The longer the run, the more important DirecTV's spec'd cable is, as they require the higher grade of cable to increase the usable cable length to about 150 feet from dish to receiver.

#3 OFFLINE   texasbrit

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 04:16 PM

2.2 GHz is actually plenty for DirecTV, which only runs to 2.17GHz. Using 3.3GHz cable as DirecTV uses is just being safe. Also note that 2.2Ghz cable will almost always pass 3GHz "sweep testing". And that cable does not suddenly stop working when you reach its specified top frequency, there is just the possibility that a "2.2GHz cable" will have slightly greater losses at 3GHz than a "3 GHz cable".

So, when installing new cable, use 3GHz sweep tested cable. You don't really need to but you might as well. But don't bother replacing old RG6.

#4 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 05:48 PM

2.2 GHz is actually plenty for DirecTV, which only runs to 2.17GHz. Using 3.3GHz cable as DirecTV uses is just being safe. Also note that 2.2Ghz cable will almost always pass 3GHz "sweep testing". And that cable does not suddenly stop working when you reach its specified top frequency, there is just the possibility that a "2.2GHz cable" will have slightly greater losses at 3GHz than a "3 GHz cable".

So, when installing new cable, use 3GHz sweep tested cable. You don't really need to but you might as well. But don't bother replacing old RG6.


And I know of some RG59 installations that are running HD just fine. If you have the wrong or old cable in a wall you try it, knowing that if there is a problem that is where to start looking and try bypassing the questionable stuff.

Cable is tested in loss per 1000ft at a given temperature.
The length of the run is a prime factor. Installation errors like tight staples or hard bends have an effect on performance as does the number of fittings, barrel connectors and multiswitches.

Joe

#5 OFFLINE   texasbrit

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 11:19 PM

Yes, existing RG59 will work fine in many installations if the cable runs are short or between the dish and the receiver if it's an SWM installation, because SWM frequencies are much lower than standard DirecTV frequencies so the signal losses in RG59 are not as severe. But DirecTV policy says "no RG59" and install techs can get an installation rejected (and therefore not paid for) if they don't replace RG59. Some installers get their installation rejected if they don't replace 2.2 GHz RG6 with 3GHz RG6, which is just pointless.

#6 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 08:25 AM

Yes, existing RG59 will work fine in many installations if the cable runs are short or between the dish and the receiver if it's an SWM installation, because SWM frequencies are much lower than standard DirecTV frequencies so the signal losses in RG59 are not as severe. But DirecTV policy says "no RG59" and install techs can get an installation rejected (and therefore not paid for) if they don't replace RG59. Some installers get their installation rejected if they don't replace 2.2 GHz RG6 with 3GHz RG6, which is just pointless.


That is what I have seen. So the customer is left to figure out why the installer will not rewire interior lines for FREE.

I have it also heard it stated that "we are not enforcing all installation details now because we are a little understaffed", which is code for people quit when they see that crap.

Just because it is not broken in no reason for not fixing it.

Joe

Edited by joe diamond, 08 February 2010 - 08:26 AM.
typo


#7 OFFLINE   avmaster

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 11:39 AM

They also said to use only solid copper core cable, when lazer cable which is copper clad steel is also tested to 3ghz works just fine. Its more cost effective.

Using existing RG6 is normal for installations, as long as the fittings are good you will never have a problem. I have never seen a problem caused just by using normal rg6.

It would be extremely stupid for direct tv to design a system that is so sensitive that it would not work on anyting but the most expensive cable you can buy. 99.9% of houses are prewired with at best rg6 thats swept tested to 2200mhz. Considering that solid copper cable is about $75 per box, it would not be even close to cost effective to completely rewire every house just to have solid copper cable. They would have to literally double what they paid techs, and then it would still probably not be enough.

#8 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 12:14 PM

For nominal runs, RG59 will probably get by, for longer runs SCC RG6 is important because of its ability to carry DC voltage with less loss over longer runs...Also, because of the frequency band and stacking scheme they are using you almost need 3Ghz swept cable to carry the entire signal spectrum.

#9 OFFLINE   BattleZone

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 12:20 PM

Again, DirecTV spec's a high cable standard so that they can get 150' of usable cable length. That usually isn't possible with copper-clad-steel cable and legacy equipment, as there is too much voltage loss to have reliable LNB switching.

For shorter runs, lesser cable will do (unless you're a DirecTV tech, who will be charged back for failing QC).

#10 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 01:48 PM

For nominal runs, RG59 will probably get by, for longer runs SCC RG6 is important because of its ability to carry DC voltage with less loss over longer runs...Also, because of the frequency band and stacking scheme they are using you almost need 3Ghz swept cable to carry the entire signal spectrum.

Citation please. What is that frequency above 2.150 GHz used by DTV equipment?
Please prove tech spec of that devices.

#11 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 02:04 PM

Citation please. What is that frequency above 2.150 GHz used by DTV equipment?
Please prove tech spec of that devices.

As I know you know, the DC loss [copper core verses copper clad] and the RF loss [@ 2.2 GHz] is what makes one cable "good" and another one "bad".
The shorter the cable runs, the less these affect the performance.
A.K.A VOS

#12 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 02:09 PM

Citation please. What is that frequency above 2.150 GHz used by DTV equipment?
Please prove tech spec of that devices.


Arent we already pushing 2.2Ghz? So do you think its wise to use cable swept to just 2.2Ghz? I believe thats why the recommendation is for 3Ghz swept cable. Its not a necessity, just a valid recommendation.

#13 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 02:22 PM

I seriously doubt frequency response (or attenuation) between 2.2 and 3.0 GHz is an issue that is impacted by solid copper versus copper clad steel. Either should handle those frequencies equally well as the other. DC voltage drop is certainly the primary consideration in specifying solid copper core.

#14 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 02:26 PM

Arent we already pushing 2.2Ghz? So do you think its wise to use cable swept to just 2.2Ghz? I believe thats why the recommendation is for 3Ghz swept cable. Its not a necessity, just a valid recommendation.

This is getting close to the high frequency barrels.
Good cable is better than bad cable, just like with barrels.
Whether it's "swept or rated" isn't as important as whether it's made well or not. Of course if it's made better the manufacture may list it as "swept". ;)
A.K.A VOS

#15 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 02:34 PM

The RF loss doesn't vary that much between manufactures so this graph should be close.
As you can see the roll-off is fairly constant:
http://www.dbstalk.c...51&d=1243869046

A.K.A VOS

#16 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 05:12 PM

For nominal runs, RG59 will probably get by, for longer runs SCC RG6 is important because of its ability to carry DC voltage with less loss over longer runs...Also, because of the frequency band and stacking scheme they are using you almost need 3Ghz swept cable to carry the entire signal spectrum.

Citation please. What is that frequency above 2.150 GHz used by DTV equipment?
Please prove tech spec of that devices.

As I know you know, the DC loss [copper core verses copper clad] and the RF loss [@ 2.2 GHz] is what makes one cable "good" and another one "bad".
The shorter the cable runs, the less these affect the performance.


Sorry, I don't see an answer to quoted question.

#17 OFFLINE   avmaster

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 11:47 PM

Arent we already pushing 2.2Ghz? So do you think its wise to use cable swept to just 2.2Ghz? I believe thats why the recommendation is for 3Ghz swept cable. Its not a necessity, just a valid recommendation.


I don't buy it, 2.2GHZ is not the limit for ccd steel. Thats what they tested it at 1000ft lengths. Its not like it drops off at exactly 2.2ghz.

I have seen HD recivers work just fine and never have a service call in 3 years on 300+ feet of copper clad. Dish network 'approved' cable is copper clad(swept tested to 3ghz)

Like i said, direct tv 'recommends' but until i see them diggin deeper in their pockets to pay techs to completley re-wire houses, they really don't have room to enforce it. Imagine using half a roll of $75 cable when you are getting paid $30 for the job. Doesn't sound like a good deal huh?

Like i said, DTV would be extremely stupid to make equipment that was so sensitive that it wouldn't work with wiring that is once again, in 99.9 houses out there.

#18 OFFLINE   doctor j

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 07:11 AM

As I know you know, the DC loss [copper core verses copper clad] and the RF loss [@ 2.2 GHz] is what makes one cable "good" and another one "bad".
The shorter the cable runs, the less these affect the performance.


MFH-1 equipment stacked another 500 mhz band above 2150 so did approach 3 MHz.
I'll have to pull out my old manuals to give you the exact spectrum if you want.

Doctor j

MFH-2 System : 2 Major Viewing Areas. 2 x HR20-700's & H21 in each area via E2/SWM-8. Hardwire gigabit switch to 30 mb/sec internet.


#19 OFFLINE   texasbrit

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 07:29 AM

1. The signal carrying capability of Copper Clad Steel and Solid Copper Core is the same because the signals are carried at the surface layer of the cable which is copper in both cases.

2. The cables carry power to the LNBs and also the satellite switching voltages. Since the power losses in SCC are lower than CCS, SCC is needed on very long runs.

3. If you are using an SWM8, then for the cables inside the house (from the SWM8 to the receivers) it does not matter whether you use SCC or CCS because the channel selection is a digital message not switching voltages, and the cables don't carry power for the LNBs. However the LNBs are powered from the SWM8 so SCC is recommended for the SWM8 to LNB cables.

4. If you are using an SWM LNB then the usual rules about using SCC apply, because the power for the LNBs is still coming from the PI. (originally said 'from receivers" but that was a error!!)

Edited by texasbrit, 09 February 2010 - 12:22 PM.


#20 OFFLINE   texasbrit

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 12:20 PM

1-3 "correct"
4 "not correct", but what I think you meant was SCC from the SWM LNB to to PI, since the receivers don't power the SWM [or shouldn't be].


Oops! Yes, I meant from the PI.




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