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Guest Message by DevFuse

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The February 2010 Create Unhappy Customers Program


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74 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 02:14 PM

This is not a particularly good month for many current Dish customers.

First, customers with a number of receivers get clobbered with a rate restructuring which Dish appears to be mitigating with some short term credits. Then, customers who have been getting their HD for several years from dishes configured for 110°/119°/61.5° suddenly find themselves unable to get the new HD channels with that configuration. And for a fee, Dish will fairly promptly install a new 1000.4 (or a rearranged two dish combination) for those who have LOS to the Eastern Arc.

I can't help but wonder. Was this some sort of "rip the bandage off quickly" plan or a case where the left hand (rate folks) didn't know what the right hand (new HD folks) was doing?

I'd really hate to be a current customer with a large number of receivers getting HD off of 110°/119°/61.5°. I'd be really irked.

"In a hundred years there'll be a whole new set of people."
"Always poke the bears. They sleep too much for their own good."

"If you're good enough, they'll talk about you." - Tom Harmon
A GEEZER who remembers watching TV in 1951 and was an Echostar customer from 1988 to 2008, now a Dish Network customer.
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#2 OFFLINE   4HiMarks

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 03:36 PM

I'd really hate to be a current customer with a large number of receivers getting HD off of 110°/119°/61.5°. I'd be really irked.


That describes me to a T, except you can also add "out of work" to the list. I am weighing my options, and as good as the Dish DVRs are, I'm not sure if I can justify the (new) cost.
Dish subscriber since 2000, HD since 2004.

#3 OFFLINE   ShapeShifter

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 09:23 AM

I'd really hate to be a current customer with a large number of receivers getting HD off of 110°/119°/61.5°. I'd be really irked.


Yep, that describes me, as well. :mad:

In my case, my locals are split among all three of those birds. So to get the new HD, I think I have to pay for a third dish? Is that for real? (Any two dish setup I can think of would involve LOS issues or need 5 orbital slots, and I think the receiver can only handle 4 slots?)

AT250, Locals, Platinum HD
Dish 500 (110 & 119) plus wing dish (61.5)
Living room: ViP612 to Yamaha receiver and JVC 42" 1080i 16:9 plasma
Bedroom: ViP612 to JVC 32" 1080i 16:9 CRT
Motorhome: ViP722, to Sharp 32" 1080i 16:9 LCD (TV1) and SD 4:3 CRT (TV2)


#4 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 10:52 AM

Not saying I don't feel for everyone on the 61.5 front... but there's another way to look at this.

Since Dish couldn't put all the new HD on 61.5... the only other choice would have been to wait and not add those channels for anyone until they could add them for everyone... in which case you'd still be paying the same price to not have those channels.

So I'm not sure what the problem here is... except that I feel they should make the dish upgrades for people for free or at a VERY reduced rate to keep customers happy.

-- I like to go fast (not really)


#5 OFFLINE   RasputinAXP

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 01:14 PM

Yep, that describes me, as well. :mad:

In my case, my locals are split among all three of those birds. So to get the new HD, I think I have to pay for a third dish? Is that for real? (Any two dish setup I can think of would involve LOS issues or need 5 orbital slots, and I think the receiver can only handle 4 slots?)



Your Buffalo locals are on 3 birds?

I'm seeing Buffalo HD locals on 61.5 and SD's on 110.

Scratch that, I found the one Buffalo ion station on 119. But that lists as WPXC which is out of...Jax, FL and Georgia? That's awfully confusing. What's up with that?

"Belligerent and numerous."

Sometimes I update the Dish Network FAQ

AT200, Hopper & 360 via HDMI to Onkyo 505 to basement 42" Westy, Hopper via Comp-over-Cat5 to living room 42" Vizio with a Roku 3, Joey to Toshiba 32" LCD with a Logitech Revue. You want fries with that? Pull up to the 2nd window.


#6 OFFLINE   ShapeShifter

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 04:28 PM

Scratch that, I found the one Buffalo ion station on 119. But that lists as WPXC which is out of...Jax, FL and Georgia? That's awfully confusing. What's up with that?

Looks like the list is wrong. WPXC is indeed out of Jax FL, the local Buffalo version is WPXJ.

I don't really care so much about that station. But I hear the E* won't condone a dish configuration that doesn't get all subscribed channels? So I guess that would make a 1000.4 with a 110 wing dish not a real solution for me. I guess I can see their point, If they were to set up that dish configuration for me, what's to stop me from complaining next month that I can't get that channel on 119?

It just seems like one of those situations where I can't win.

AT250, Locals, Platinum HD
Dish 500 (110 & 119) plus wing dish (61.5)
Living room: ViP612 to Yamaha receiver and JVC 42" 1080i 16:9 plasma
Bedroom: ViP612 to JVC 32" 1080i 16:9 CRT
Motorhome: ViP722, to Sharp 32" 1080i 16:9 LCD (TV1) and SD 4:3 CRT (TV2)


#7 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 05:22 PM

Looks like the list is wrong. WPXC is indeed out of Jax FL, the local Buffalo version is WPXJ.

I don't really care so much about that station. But I hear the E* won't condone a dish configuration that doesn't get all subscribed channels? So I guess that would make a 1000.4 with a 110 wing dish not a real solution for me. I guess I can see their point, If they were to set up that dish configuration for me, what's to stop me from complaining next month that I can't get that channel on 119?

It just seems like one of those situations where I can't win.

Actually, if you already get 110°/119° off a single 500 dish, I don't see why you can't add a 1000.4 for the EA with some switch. There might be some problems with duplicate channels, but it seems like it ought to be doable. But I don't know enough about these things. Maybe someone could explain if it wouldn't work.

"In a hundred years there'll be a whole new set of people."
"Always poke the bears. They sleep too much for their own good."

"If you're good enough, they'll talk about you." - Tom Harmon
A GEEZER who remembers watching TV in 1951 and was an Echostar customer from 1988 to 2008, now a Dish Network customer.
My AV Setup
My Slingbox Pro HD Experience
My Blog: The Redwood Guardian


#8 OFFLINE   SaltiDawg

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 05:54 PM

...

So I'm not sure what the problem here is...

Well, one problem is that I'm paying for a package using gear determined by Dish to be required and I cannot receive all of the channels in the package.

To boot, they have not notified me of the availability of those new channels.

I am not a Dish basher, indeed I'm a happy customer, but one thing for absolute certain is that I expect that Dish will provide the needed equipment at no additional cost to me. If that fails to come about, I'll be waiting for the end of my current commitment so as to jump to Fios.

No ill will to Dish, but I'm only so flexible in determining what I believe is fair and equitable.

We'll see what happens.... I'm on hold with my 61.5 dish under three feet of snow.:lol:

#9 OFFLINE   4HiMarks

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 06:02 PM

Actually, if you already get 110°/119° off a single 500 dish, I don't see why you can't add a 1000.4 for the EA with some switch. There might be some problems with duplicate channels, but it seems like it ought to be doable. But I don't know enough about these things. Maybe someone could explain if it wouldn't work.


Seems to me that a Dish 500 pointed at 61.5 ought to be able to just be replaced with a 1000.4 and re-aimed slightly to get the other two birds. Then the 110/119 dish might not even be necessary. I have a better LOS to that part of the sky anyway.

My questions are:

1) What programming package are the new channels part of?
2) I still have the old DHP tied to my 501. I'm pretty sure that includes a free service call if there is any problem. I know I got my 61.5 dish installed free when the "must carry" provision was re-interpreted to include all locals. I would think "not able to get all the channels I'm paying for" would be a problem requiring a service call. So if the new channels are in my package, why should I have to pay for installation of a new dish?
Dish subscriber since 2000, HD since 2004.

#10 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 06:06 PM

I'd urge considering this post from another thread if you can't get Dish to handle the problem in a reasonable manner through the normal contact points:

I just wanted to give an up-date to my issue with Dish Network with these new channels.

As everyone know by now is that if you are using the 119/110/118/61.5 birds in the sky and trying to get the new HD channels that you are SOL, on less you pay $95.00 plus $15.00 and sign up for DHPP. Well I thought it was not right since I should be getting these channels in my package (AEP + Locals + HD).

I had called and that went nowhere; so I sent an email to the CEO. I now have Dish Network coming out on Monday to install what ever I need to get these channels, all for free no extended contract! This is why I stay with Dish network.

Thank you Dish Network!

I was waiting for someone to use ceo@dishnetwork.com as I was afraid to suggest it as they might have actually planned this putting a firm rule in place. Good for you and good for Dish.;)


"In a hundred years there'll be a whole new set of people."
"Always poke the bears. They sleep too much for their own good."

"If you're good enough, they'll talk about you." - Tom Harmon
A GEEZER who remembers watching TV in 1951 and was an Echostar customer from 1988 to 2008, now a Dish Network customer.
My AV Setup
My Slingbox Pro HD Experience
My Blog: The Redwood Guardian


#11 OFFLINE   ShapeShifter

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 07:01 PM

Actually, if you already get 110°/119° off a single 500 dish, I don't see why you can't add a 1000.4 for the EA with some switch. There might be some problems with duplicate channels, but it seems like it ought to be doable. But I don't know enough about these things. Maybe someone could explain if it wouldn't work.


I considered that, but that would result in 5 orbital positions. (110/119 + 61.5/72.7/77) Doesn't the receiver have a limit of 4 positions? At least that's all the space there is in the Check Switch results display.

But I wonder if there is another issue. Earlier today I went out to the motorhome, where it's a simple matter of pushing a few buttons on the rooftop dome controller to choose the satellite. So I pointed it to 129, did a check switch, and while it was a low signal strength, I was getting a good picture. So I tried to get BBCA HD (ch 9450) and got nothing -- it shows up red in the program guide. So what's up with that? Do they know I'm not supposed to be seeing that channel with my regular dish setup?

AT250, Locals, Platinum HD
Dish 500 (110 & 119) plus wing dish (61.5)
Living room: ViP612 to Yamaha receiver and JVC 42" 1080i 16:9 plasma
Bedroom: ViP612 to JVC 32" 1080i 16:9 CRT
Motorhome: ViP722, to Sharp 32" 1080i 16:9 LCD (TV1) and SD 4:3 CRT (TV2)


#12 OFFLINE   GrumpyBear

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 07:09 PM

I considered that, but that would result in 5 orbital positions. (110/119 + 61.5/72.7/77) Doesn't the receiver have a limit of 4 positions? At least that's all the space there is in the Check Switch results display.

But I wonder if there is another issue. Earlier today I went out to the motorhome, where it's a simple matter of pushing a few buttons on the rooftop dome controller to choose the satellite. So I pointed it to 129, did a check switch, and while it was a low signal strength, I was getting a good picture. So I tried to get BBCA HD (ch 9450) and got nothing -- it shows up red in the program guide. So what's up with that? Do they know I'm not supposed to be seeing that channel with my regular dish setup?

I would call up like Puck said and get a rehit, to see if that fix's your motorhome Dvr.

#13 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 12:56 AM

I considered that, but that would result in 5 orbital positions. (110/119 + 61.5/72.7/77) Doesn't the receiver have a limit of 4 positions? At least that's all the space there is in the Check Switch results display.

Sorry, I really wasn't thinking of you using 119, unless you really want that one channel. If I were you, I'd ask Dish to solve your problem.

Incidentally, where's your motorhome? Apparently it has LOS to 129? A 500 on 110/119 and a (large?) wing dish on 129? Or is the motorhome somewhere completely off the property?

"In a hundred years there'll be a whole new set of people."
"Always poke the bears. They sleep too much for their own good."

"If you're good enough, they'll talk about you." - Tom Harmon
A GEEZER who remembers watching TV in 1951 and was an Echostar customer from 1988 to 2008, now a Dish Network customer.
My AV Setup
My Slingbox Pro HD Experience
My Blog: The Redwood Guardian


#14 OFFLINE   BillJ

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 06:59 AM

What surprises me is that more than a year ago Dish acknowledged problems with 129 for Chicago locals accounts and mirrored those channels on 61.5. I can get both satellites with my installation but usually the locals initially try 129 and then switch to 61.5 because the 129 signal is so poor.

Now knowing of this problem, why wouldn't Dish put the new HD channels on both 129 and 61.5? Makes no sense at all. If you have only 61.5 for HD, start bombarding the CEO's office with requests for free hardware upgrades. This sounds like some middle level manager made a decision to save some money at the expense of customers. Make sure top management knows what's going on.

#15 OFFLINE   ShapeShifter

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 10:00 AM

Incidentally, where's your motorhome? Apparently it has LOS to 129? A 500 on 110/119 and a (large?) wing dish on 129? Or is the motorhome somewhere completely off the property?

It's in my driveway at home.

Normally, I use a portable DPP 500 for 110/119 so I can drive both tuners of the DVR with a single cable, and not have to worry about switching satellites. I don't get HD that way, but usually only the wife watches live and she can't tell the difference. I normally watch recordings I moved from the DVRs in the house, and those are in HD.

I also have a rooftop dome, that can be aimed at different satellites. It's supposed to automatically switch satellites as I change channels, but that has always given me trouble. Also, there is only a single coax run, and a legacy LNB, so I'm not able to use a DPP separator, and can therefore only drive one of the tuners. So, I normally don't use the dome. About the only time I use it is if we're making a quick overnight stop and it's not worth setting up the portable dish, or when in the driveway for an extended time. In those cases, I just manually select which satellite I want using the dome control panel. When in the driveway, I just keep in on 119, just to keep it alive when parked for extended periods, so I don't have to worry about re-authorizing it when I want to use it again.

As for getting 129 with the dome, I can pick it up, but it's a weak signal. And the dome takes a long time to lock on, probably because it's so close to the horizon. From my driveway, to the South, I have a few scattered trees, some farm fields, and the solid tree line varies from about 1000 to 2000 feet away. So I pretty much have a clear view of about 98% of the Southern sky from where it's normally parked. Interestingly, the one tree by the side of the driveway is in exactly the wrong spot, so I can't get 61.5 with the dome while parked in the driveway. Even with no leaves, the tree trunk is blocking the signal.

It's doubly interesting that I can get 129 with the dome, since the reflector in the dome is significantly smaller than a regular dish. It's roughly the equivalent of an 18" dish that's been cut in half.

AT250, Locals, Platinum HD
Dish 500 (110 & 119) plus wing dish (61.5)
Living room: ViP612 to Yamaha receiver and JVC 42" 1080i 16:9 plasma
Bedroom: ViP612 to JVC 32" 1080i 16:9 CRT
Motorhome: ViP722, to Sharp 32" 1080i 16:9 LCD (TV1) and SD 4:3 CRT (TV2)


#16 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 11:15 AM

Now knowing of this problem, why wouldn't Dish put the new HD channels on both 129 and 61.5? Makes no sense at all.


I see people keep re-asking this question, which has been answered a couple of times...

Because of some problems at the 61.5 location, Dish apparently doesn't have the bandwidth to add all the HD at the 61.5 location as they have done in the past.

So.. whether or not they ultimately want people on the east/west arcs... Right now it is more of a technical issue where they can't do it all at 61.5.

So... the choice was keep waiting and don't launch new HD for anyone... OR go ahead and put it on the west/east arcs... and then see if they can get more people to go ahead and convert to the other "arc" configurations quicker than they could get the 61.5 problem addressed.

-- I like to go fast (not really)


#17 OFFLINE   RasputinAXP

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 12:06 PM

Just had to have an extensive chat with the installer, who didn't believe me that I needed to be swapped to EA. *sigh*

We're all straight now, though.

"Belligerent and numerous."

Sometimes I update the Dish Network FAQ

AT200, Hopper & 360 via HDMI to Onkyo 505 to basement 42" Westy, Hopper via Comp-over-Cat5 to living room 42" Vizio with a Roku 3, Joey to Toshiba 32" LCD with a Logitech Revue. You want fries with that? Pull up to the 2nd window.


#18 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 12:38 PM

It's in my driveway at home.

It's doubly interesting that I can get 129 with the dome, since the reflector in the dome is significantly smaller than a regular dish. It's roughly the equivalent of an 18" dish that's been cut in half.

So in your home you could get everything if you added a second wing dish aimed at 129°? The Eastern Arc is basically useless but you have to have 61.5° for HD locals, 110°/119° for SD locals which would give you some HD nationals, and 129° for the remaining HD nationals.

The question is how well your boxes would sort out the duplicates. It strikes me that Dish has to work this out for folks in the Buffalo DMA. If you can't get a reasonable response via the normal communications, you definitely should email ceo@dishnetwork.com for assistance. It strikes me that they could authorize the Western Arc and your HD locals on 61.5 and you would have everything.

"In a hundred years there'll be a whole new set of people."
"Always poke the bears. They sleep too much for their own good."

"If you're good enough, they'll talk about you." - Tom Harmon
A GEEZER who remembers watching TV in 1951 and was an Echostar customer from 1988 to 2008, now a Dish Network customer.
My AV Setup
My Slingbox Pro HD Experience
My Blog: The Redwood Guardian


#19 OFFLINE   scooper

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 01:15 PM

Yeah - DPP44 switch with the 61.5 on the wing,and 110/119/129 on a 1000.2
You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

#20 OFFLINE   ShapeShifter

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 01:37 PM

So in your home you could get everything if you added a second wing dish aimed at 129°? The Eastern Arc is basically useless but you have to have 61.5° for HD locals, 110°/119° for SD locals which would give you some HD nationals, and 129° for the remaining HD nationals.

I suppose that's true. But three dishes? I'm not sure that's worth it just for a couple more HD channels.

Yeah - DPP44 switch with the 61.5 on the wing,and 110/119/129 on a 1000.2

Now that sounds a bit better -- replace the existing Dish 500 with a 1000.2.

But on second thought, is the DP44 really necessary? Does the 1000.2 have an input for an additional slot, like the 500 has? As it is right now, the line from the DPP wing dish goes to the input of the DPP 500, and the two outputs from the 500 go to the two ViP 612s through DPP separators. Seems that I might just be able to replace the 500 with a 1000.2, and basically keep the wiring the same.

Also, that would give me an extra output, since the 1000.2 has three outs compared to the two on the 500, doesn't it? That would let me run a line from the third output to the motorhome parking pad, which would eliminate the need to use the limited functionality dome to keep that receiver alive -- I would have full functionality.

Now, THAT has possibilities, and is probably worth the effort. I knew if I kept b****ing and moaning about it, you guys would work out a good solution!

You guys rock, I'm not worthy! :gott:

So, other than dealing with my 129 issues, what am I missing, what's the downside? Will the receiver be able to sort out the duplicates between 61.5 and 129? Does anybody here successfully use a 61.5/110/119/129 setup?

On edit: Just checked the LOS for a 1000.2 -- assuming it would be aimed a little lower and a little West of where the 500 is pointed, there should be no obstructions. There is lots of clear sky in the general direction that the 500 is pointed.

PS: phrelin, I have to laugh. Every time I run the spell checker, it wants to change your name to "phreaking!" :lol:

Edited by ShapeShifter, 14 February 2010 - 01:50 PM.

AT250, Locals, Platinum HD
Dish 500 (110 & 119) plus wing dish (61.5)
Living room: ViP612 to Yamaha receiver and JVC 42" 1080i 16:9 plasma
Bedroom: ViP612 to JVC 32" 1080i 16:9 CRT
Motorhome: ViP722, to Sharp 32" 1080i 16:9 LCD (TV1) and SD 4:3 CRT (TV2)





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