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SixtoReport: DirecTV National HD Listing


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#1201 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 03:01 PM

Ka, DVB-S2D, SR 30 Msps:
QPSK 3/5 35 Mbps
QPSK 2/3 39 Mbps
QPSK 4/5 47 Mbps
8PSK 3/5 52 Mbps

Yep, and the question has always been, which one are they using.
DirecTV: Genie HR44, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/75)
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#1202 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 03:19 PM

All. I think Lyngsat should have the map.

#1203 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 06:00 AM

Well if you check out this article on U-Verse and do the math on their provisioned line rate, pull down 2 HD channels and do a speed test, this would indicate HD running at about 5mbps H.264 encoding.

VDSL modem provisioned for 25/2 mbps:

As for speeds, "tests are around 17250/1450," one new user e-mails me. "When 2HD+2SD streams are in use it drops to 12-13mbps," he says. "When just dual HD streams are in use, it hovers around 15, which isn't too bad."

http://www.broadband...erse-Tier-98996

So if DirecTV put 6 HD's per 8PSK transponder, that yields 8.6 Mbps per HD channel. At H.264/MPEG4 AVC, that should still work fine. Hell, it's at least 3mbps BETTER than AT&T UVerse.

Also what I said earlier about content being compressed at the source... HBO is putting 10 HD channels on Galaxy 14 tp 8. 10!!!!! All I'm asking of DirecTV is to TRY 6 per TP and buy some time out of this bandwidth crisis until D14 is launched!
http://www.lyngsat.com/galaxy14.html

Edited by cypherx, 21 July 2011 - 06:07 AM.

- > Link to my setup thread< -

My  DirecTV HD WISHLIST:  NickJR, Nicktoons, Revolt.TV, FXM, We, Oxygen, The Hub, Fuse, GSN, Sprout, GAC, Esquire, BBC World News, Sundance, Up, Music Choice Play HD, Al Jazeera America, Military Channel, NASA

My DirecTV SD WISHLIST: MTV Hits, MTV Jams, Music Choice, Youtoo TV

 

---

HR44-500
HR24-200

 


#1204 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 07:38 AM

Ka, DVB-S2D, SR 30 Msps:
QPSK 3/5 35 Mbps
QPSK 2/3 39 Mbps
QPSK 4/5 47 Mbps
8PSK 3/5 52 Mbps

which seems to be QPSK 2/3 or 39 Mbps, which would map to 5 HD channels at ~8Mbps.
DirecTV: Genie HR44, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/75)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#1205 OFFLINE   Jeremy W

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 07:49 AM

So if DirecTV put 6 HD's per 8PSK transponder, that yields 8.6 Mbps per HD channel. At H.264/MPEG4 AVC, that should still work fine.

Why did you decide to go with that number? I'm not aware of any 8PSK Ka transponders that DirecTV is using for DTH service. They're most likely using QPSK 2/3 with 39 Mbps per transponder.

#1206 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 08:12 AM

Why did you decide to go with that number? I'm not aware of any 8PSK Ka transponders that DirecTV is using for DTH service. They're most likely using QPSK 2/3 with 39 Mbps per transponder.


Well hopefully they learned from their mistake if that's the case and build D14 with 8PSK comparable transponders. Or, if it's anything like cable, a transmission medium doesn't matter. It's the modulation rate. IE) cable moved from 64QAM to 256QAM.

- > Link to my setup thread< -

My  DirecTV HD WISHLIST:  NickJR, Nicktoons, Revolt.TV, FXM, We, Oxygen, The Hub, Fuse, GSN, Sprout, GAC, Esquire, BBC World News, Sundance, Up, Music Choice Play HD, Al Jazeera America, Military Channel, NASA

My DirecTV SD WISHLIST: MTV Hits, MTV Jams, Music Choice, Youtoo TV

 

---

HR44-500
HR24-200

 


#1207 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 08:19 AM

Well hopefully they learned from their mistake if that's the case and build D14 with 8PSK comparable transponders. Or, if it's anything like cable, a transmission medium doesn't matter. It's the modulation rate. IE) cable moved from 64QAM to 256QAM.


AFAIK the satellites don't care what format is used, it's what can the receivers decode. Moving to 8PSK on Dish's western arc is one way they'll expand their bandwidth, but they need to replace a ton of receivers first.

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#1208 OFFLINE   Jeremy W

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 08:20 AM

Well hopefully they learned from their mistake if that's the case and build D14 with 8PSK comparable transponders. Or, if it's anything like cable, a transmission medium doesn't matter. It's the modulation rate. IE) cable moved from 64QAM to 256QAM.

The transponders don't care what modulation scheme is used. It's the equipment on the ground that matters.

#1209 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 09:14 AM

The transponders don't care what modulation scheme is used. It's the equipment on the ground that matters.


That's what I thought, but it's my understanding that all of the MPEG4 receivers can do 8PSK. Am I wrong?

- > Link to my setup thread< -

My  DirecTV HD WISHLIST:  NickJR, Nicktoons, Revolt.TV, FXM, We, Oxygen, The Hub, Fuse, GSN, Sprout, GAC, Esquire, BBC World News, Sundance, Up, Music Choice Play HD, Al Jazeera America, Military Channel, NASA

My DirecTV SD WISHLIST: MTV Hits, MTV Jams, Music Choice, Youtoo TV

 

---

HR44-500
HR24-200

 


#1210 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 09:41 AM

That's what I thought, but it's my understanding that all of the MPEG4 receivers can do 8PSK. Am I wrong?


8PSK is being used by locals, I believe. However, those are on spot beams and therefore have higher radiated power density than the national TPs. That may be the reason by Directv hasn't (yet?) gone to an 8PSK modulation scheme on the CONUS beams.

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#1211 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 09:52 AM

That's what I thought, but it's my understanding that all of the MPEG4 receivers can do 8PSK. Am I wrong?


Actually its not a receivers' capability to receive the MPEG-4 AVC compression standard, but its compatibility with the DVB-S2 encapsulation or "transport stream" format which specifies up to four different modulation schemes.

QPSK, 8-PSK, 16-APSK, and 32-APSK.

So if DIRECTV's IRDs are "fully" compatible with the standard, then they should be able to receive all four. But I doubt they are fully compliant with it.

Particularly the two later partially amplitude modulated variants.

#1212 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 10:09 AM

Actually its not a receivers' capability to receive the MPEG-4 AVC compression standard, but its compatibility with the DVB-S2 encapsulation or "transport stream" format which specifies up to four different modulation schemes.

QPSK, 8-PSK, 16-APSK, and 32-APSK.

So if DIRECTV's IRDs are "fully" compatible with the standard, then they should be able to receive all four. But I doubt they are fully compliant with it.

Particularly the two later partially amplitude modulated variants.


From posts here you can find what front-end chips [tuner/demod or combo] DTV is using in receivers, reading specs will tell you what types of modulation supporting.
Those two later variants [16APSK, 32APSK] using for data transmission, usually with VCM when return channel reporting the signal parameters.

Edited by P Smith, 21 July 2011 - 10:17 AM.


#1213 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 10:14 AM

which seems to be QPSK 2/3 or 39 Mbps, which would map to 5 HD channels at ~8Mbps.


All listed are current values for different CONUS transponders.

[Regardless of someone awareness. ;)]

I recall we did get some numbers about number of channels and bandwidth for some of them a few months before...

Edited by P Smith, 21 July 2011 - 02:21 PM.


#1214 OFFLINE   Jeremy W

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 10:29 AM

All listed are current values for different CONUS transponders.

[egardless of someone awareness. ;)]

And you're posting regardless of having any factual data. Lyngsat isn't the final authority on anything, all of their data relies on user submissions.

#1215 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 12:22 PM

Is there any way to leverage FEC to a rate that provides more up front throughput per tp? Dish Network has that 8psk-turbo feature in their Broadcom receivers. Though they are on Ku frequencies not Ka so they are less susceptible to rain fade. I'm wondering what kind of power needs to be put out to get decent Ka signals to get 8psk-turbo and if DirecTV receivers specifically can utilize that. Also can D12 adjust their CONUS transponders high enough or is their power level already maxed out or designed at a fixed value? Maybe 8psk-turbo coding could get enough bandwidth to transport 7 or 8 HD channels a transponder. Across a few transponders that bandwidth savings adds up.

Will D14 be Ka or Ku band, (or some mix of both), and does anyone know if it will have any technological advancements in optimizing throughput and power in a way that is compatible with current equipment?

Just trying to monday morning quarterback the bandwidth crisis. (I know I know...:rolleyes: )

- > Link to my setup thread< -

My  DirecTV HD WISHLIST:  NickJR, Nicktoons, Revolt.TV, FXM, We, Oxygen, The Hub, Fuse, GSN, Sprout, GAC, Esquire, BBC World News, Sundance, Up, Music Choice Play HD, Al Jazeera America, Military Channel, NASA

My DirecTV SD WISHLIST: MTV Hits, MTV Jams, Music Choice, Youtoo TV

 

---

HR44-500
HR24-200

 


#1216 OFFLINE   Jeremy W

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 12:37 PM

Is there any way to leverage FEC to a rate that provides more up front throughput per tp?

FEC boils down to a choice made when designing and testing the transmission system. Less FEC means more bandwidth, obviously. They chose the current FEC rates for a reason, which is because they are the lowest rates that allow the system to function within the parameters DirecTV has decided on.

So will they change the FEC rates? Possible, but unlikely. There was undoubtedly a lot of research and testing that went into the decisions that ultimately led to the current FEC rates, and changing them would be a very big deal.

#1217 OFFLINE   itzme

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 01:00 PM

I have a question about the ESPN3D going from part-time to full time. I apologize if I use the wrong terms here.... But I'm curious if Sixto or others will be able to tell if that channel's method of encoding/transmission may also be changed? Can you tell?

I ask because of a side-issue, where some folk's AVRs aren't compatible with the ESPN3D signal (and some other 3D content). Rumor has it that if DTV delivered the signal differently, the way they apparently originally sent it, it could resolve the issue. Also there is an ambiguous post by Satracer that may be suggesting that this issue is being fixed. I hope I'm not getting us too OT here.

#1218 OFFLINE   Jeremy W

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 01:03 PM

I have a question about the ESPN3D going from part-time to full time. I apologize if I use the wrong terms here.... But I'm curious if Sixto or others will be able to tell if that channel's method of encoding/transmission may also be changed? Can you tell?

Sixto's info is much lower level than what you're looking for. So that discussion isn't appropriate for this thread.

#1219 OFFLINE   itzme

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 01:11 PM

Sixto's info is much lower level than what you're looking for. So that discussion isn't appropriate for this thread.


Ok, gotcha. I've never understood how Sixto does his vodoo-rocket-science magic anyway :)

#1220 OFFLINE   Jeremy W

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 01:25 PM

Ok, gotcha. I've never understood how Sixto does his vodoo-rocket-science magic anyway :)

You explained it in your post: voodoo rocket-science magic. :lol:

#1221 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 01:35 PM

I have a question about the ESPN3D going from part-time to full time. I apologize if I use the wrong terms here.... But I'm curious if Sixto or others will be able to tell if that channel's method of encoding/transmission may also be changed? Can you tell?

I ask because of a side-issue, where some folk's AVRs aren't compatible with the ESPN3D signal (and some other 3D content). Rumor has it that if DTV delivered the signal differently, the way they apparently originally sent it, it could resolve the issue. Also there is an ambiguous post by Satracer that may be suggesting that this issue is being fixed. I hope I'm not getting us too OT here.

The change from part-time to full-time is fairly simple, but it's always possible that they will be making other changes as well.

Today, to transmit ESPN3D, they take down a Cinema HD channel, and bring up ESPN3D.

Starting next week, they will just leave the channel up full-time, and they've already allocated bandwidth, and are testing.

I'm not familiar with the 3D issue with ESPN but it's doubtful that this one change would affect anything, since it's using similar bandwidth to that it was using previously, but now it's full-time instead of part-time.

But it's always possible that they're tweaking others things as well to address the issue you reference.
DirecTV: Genie HR44, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/75)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#1222 OFFLINE   Gotchaa

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 04:13 AM

The change from part-time to full-time is fairly simple, but it's always possible that they will be making other changes as well.

Today, to transmit ESPN3D, they take down a Cinema HD channel, and bring up ESPN3D.

Starting next week, they will just leave the channel up full-time, and they've already allocated bandwidth, and are testing.

I'm not familiar with the 3D issue with ESPN but it's doubtful that this one change would affect anything, since it's using similar bandwidth to that it was using previously, but now it's full-time instead of part-time.

But it's always possible that they're tweaking others things as well to address the issue you reference.


This issue is simple, Directv is sending ESPN 3D in 720pSBS, an optional 3D format that companies like Pioneer choose not to support in 2010 AVRs. We know that ESPN 3D is available in TopBottom format on other providers. DirecTV does not have to send it in a mandatory format because they don't have any HDMI 1.4 receivers in the market yet, so mandatory 3D broadcast formats mean nothing. They also do not allow up conversion in their sat receivers to 1080i with 3D content. This leaves many with 1 choice, let your satellite company dictate how to hook up the box...straight to the display, who cares that you want to switch thru your AVR you spent $$$ on...IMHO, poor decision, but probably should not be too hard on them as they are providing 3D without forcing consumers to pay for a new sat receiver.....yet...

#1223 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 05:51 AM

The new 5 HD/3D:
[U][B]SIGNIFICANT[/B] Changes: NEW (added/moved) from [B]2011-07-27[/B] compared to 2011-07-22:[/U]

  106 ESPN3D  FT D12 13 1020  <------  106 ESPN3D  PT D12 19 1700

  505 HB2wHD  FT D12 13 1050

  520 5MAXHD  FT D12 16 1030

  521 WMAXHD  FT D12 15 1050

  523 @MAXHD  FT D12 18 1020



[U][B]SIGNIFICANT[/B] Changes: OLD (removed) from 2011-07-22 compared to [B]2011-07-27[/B]:[/U]

  106 *ESPN3D FT D12 13 1020

  505 *HB2wHD FT D12 13 1050

  520 *5MAXHD FT D12 16 1030

  521 *WMAXHD FT D12 15 1050

  523 *@MAXHD FT D12 18 1020



[U]Part-time Changes: NEW (added/moved) from [B]2011-07-27[/B] compared to 2011-07-22:[/U]

  NONE



[U]Part-time Changes: OLD (removed) from 2011-07-22 compared to [B]2011-07-27[/B]:[/U]

  NONE

 

[U]Legend:[/U]

1st column is the channel number

2nd column is the channel name, an '*' prior to the name designates a TEST channel

3rd column is FT for Full-Time, PT for Part-time, RM for Remapped from another channel

4th column is the Satellite, 5th column is the transponder number

6th column is 'slot' number with 10xx: active/online, 1700: offline, 0000: unassigned

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#1224 OFFLINE   GregLee

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 11:54 AM

This issue is simple, Directv is sending ESPN 3D in 720pSBS, an optional 3D format that companies like Pioneer choose not to support in 2010 AVRs.

For whatever interest it may have, my Onkyo 2010 AVR (tx-nr3008) is working fine with the new channel 106.
Greg

#1225 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 11:58 AM

The new 5 HD/3D:



Sixto, out of curiosity.... it has been reported that Universal Sports has been made "live" on channel 625.

Does this channel not show up on your scans, or do you not report it since it is not HD?
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