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VIP722 replacement for audio problems


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29 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   nikeboiz

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 10:02 AM

My system consists of: Sony tv - kdl-40v5100, Sony blu ray player, VIP722, and Onkyo Ht-s5200 home theater. HDMI from the vip722 to the tv with optical cable to onkyo for audio, HDMI from the blu ray to tv with optical for the audio.
My problem: audio drops. If I run the audio through the tv direct from the vip722 the audio would have glitches, through the Onkyo the audio would actually drop for a second then come back. This audio problem was not network specific. This was not a problem with my tv. This was not a problem with my Onkyo. The problem is / was with my VIP722. I had to get three different VIP722 to get a good one. Now my audio seems fine so far. If that changes I will let you know. Wanted to let you all know that dish will send out these reconditioned VIP722's and it may take a while to get a good one so be persistant with dish. I had two older VIP722's, the ones with OTA antenna connection, this newer VIP722 does not have the OTA antenna connection. Is that the VIP722K then? Anyway, if you have the same problem, don't give up. Keep on dish network to get you a good receiver/dvr! It took me 2 months of hell to get my problem resolved..

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#2 OFFLINE   nikeboiz

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 09:02 PM

Here is my update for my original post.....
OK, after having my third receiver for a few days now, I am getting audio drops still, but here is the deal. The audio drops occur with the following settings on my Dobly Digital setting through the Dish Network menu. I have the DD setting to Dolby Digital/PCM and line mode. This setting I have audio drops that occur very seldom but there nonetheless. This is my preferred setting, as I like Dolby Digital over PCM. I do not experience any audio drops when it is set on PCM only and line mode. To me it seems like the dish box needs a software update to process the Dobly Digital the way it is supposed to. Taking into consideration my connection set up mentioned in my original post. Does anyone have any suggestions? Is it my receiver with the problems? I think it is.

#3 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 09:53 PM

let me see if I understand this.

You have audio going 722->TV->to Receiver. Not sure what TV you have but a lot of TVs don't do DD pass through.

What I would do for an experiment is to go directly to your receiver and see if the Audio issue goes away. I suspect it will if I am reading this correctly. If I am not and you are going directly Onkyo perhaps someone with your model will pipe in.

There are a lot of people doing DD with the 722 through both HDMI and optical with very good success.

If your set up is as above, i suspect someone along they way is messed up and I would look to all components to see if there are any software updates you might try to remedy the situation.
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#4 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 09:56 PM

One other point. If you are doing a passthrough, you might want to check out AVSForums for your TV model. I did a quick google around this and there seems to be some discussion around this topic. I don't have time to read them, but figure it might provide some clues.
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#5 OFFLINE   nikeboiz

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 10:48 PM

Let me clarify my step up.
Hdmi from the vip722 to the tv, the optical is from the vip722 directly to the onkyo. Hdmi from the blu ray to the tv. optical directly from the blu ray to the onkyo. Any input is appreciated....Thanks....

#6 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 12:47 AM

Thanks for the clarification.. Wanted to make sure. If there is no OTA then it would be a 722K. So to summarize.

1) You have had two 722s and one 722K
2) All three have shown the same issue.

Here are my comments.

I totally agree that it can't be the TV since it is optical from the 722 to the receiver. This leaves the following possibilities.

1) Bad Optical cable. (Swap out should verify this is not the case)
2) Incompatibility between Dish and the Onkyo.
3) Bug in the Onkyo
4) Bug in the Dish receiver.

I know you are leaning towards #4 based on your post above, but just as there are a ton of people using Onkyo with DD there are a ton of Dish subs using Optical 722 with DD. I fall into that category and I my experience has been pretty flawless over the last 2+ years I have had my 722. I personally suspect something possibly external is at work.

If you have not tried the cable, give it a try as it is something that has not changed. Also, I am sure you verified that your Onkyo firmware is up to date if it is upgradable.

You did mention the 722K took awhile for the issue to surface which would tend to point away from software. How about heat? What is your environment like? Enclosed cabinet? Clean power? Did your 722s immediately show the issue or did it take time to develop?

Since you indicate not content related, Do you have this issue happening on both local channel content and national channels?

Also, Anyone out there have this receiver with a 722/622/722K if so, same experience?
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#7 OFFLINE   JR_Baas

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 06:09 AM

A friend of mine has an Onkyo receiver with AT&T Uverse that is experiencing the same problems. As a test, can you run the video on component, removing the HDMI cable? That seemed to clear up his audio problems.

#8 OFFLINE   nikeboiz

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 08:49 AM

Thanks Ron and J.R. for your suggestions.

Ron - I tried two brand new optical cables with no change. Tried new hdmi cables.

This problem is not network specific, I have seen it happen on all sorts of channels, locals, hbo, starz, etc...

This only happens when I set the dish box to run DD/PCM as I prefer DD. Setting it on PCM only seems to eleviate the problem. But I do not like the PCM setting and prefer DD.

J.R. - That is interesting that removing the hdmi cable from the SAT REC to the TV and use component video would clear up the audio problem since the audio is being pushed thru an optical cable. But I do believe you in saying it cleared up the problem. I wonder if his problem is with Dolby and I wonder if his AT&T Uverse has a similiar dd/pcm setting. But it's sounding more like it could be the hdmi cable(between vip722 and tv) interfering with the audio that runs through the optical cable?? Is that what you are saying J.R.? But regardless, I am willing to try using component video cables from vip722 to tv and keep the optical as is from the vip722 to onkyo. If that solves the audio problem, then hdmi compatibility would be the problem, right? So is it the TV's fault or the SAT REC's fault, because if it's my Sony I can get a new one as it is under a 5 year warranty, this tv is only a few months old. Why would hdmi affect audio on the optical? Stranger things have happened I guess...But another point is that I have audio glitches through the hdmi cable to the tv, but to the onkyo thru the optical the audio actually drops for a second then comes back? HDMI the problem for both??

My onkyo is new and I called about the firmware and it is up to date, so they say....

The probem has always been intermittant on all three vip722 boxes.

What do you guys think.....Ron, JR?

Edited by nikeboiz, 05 April 2010 - 09:17 AM.
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#9 OFFLINE   Ron Barry

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 09:49 AM

just for completeness. The DD/PCM setting means that you get DD when available and PCM when not. Using just PCM would definitely be a step down so I would suggest keeping trying to figure it out.

One thing you might try is to disable the sound on the HDMI If that is possible from the TV. Not sure if it is, but something worth taking a look at. Hmmm..

Given you had swapped optical twice, I think that rules out cable.

On the HDMI causing the problem. Like I said earlier DD does not go well into some TVs and I have had issues with my LCDs when having it set to DD so perhaps that might be causing the issues as JR indicated. See if your TV allows you to turn off the sound through HDMI.

Also, you did not give any indication that heat might be at play. Is the receiver out in an open cabinet?
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#10 OFFLINE   nikeboiz

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 12:04 PM

Ron-

My vip722 is in an open back cabinet with plenty of air, also the front glass closure is not air tight by any means....

I did not see anything on the tv to turn off the sound through HDMI.

I did find Bravia sync control for hdmi setting that was set to on, I just turned that off. That setting is to control other sony equipment connected via hdmi, so I do not need that on, not sure if that would affect the audio, but so far today I have not heard any audio drops through the onkyo. But have only had the tv on a few mintues..

Thanks for all of your input. If I get it totally figured out or have new info, I will update my post again..

Thank you....

brad

#11 OFFLINE   JR_Baas

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 01:15 PM

J.R. - That is interesting that removing the hdmi cable from the SAT REC to the TV and use component video would clear up the audio problem since the audio is being pushed thru an optical cable. But I do believe you in saying it cleared up the problem. I wonder if his problem is with Dolby and I wonder if his AT&T Uverse has a similiar dd/pcm setting. But it's sounding more like it could be the hdmi cable(between vip722 and tv) interfering with the audio that runs through the optical cable?? Is that what you are saying J.R.? But regardless, I am willing to try using component video cables from vip722 to tv and keep the optical as is from the vip722 to onkyo. If that solves the audio problem, then hdmi compatibility would be the problem, right? So is it the TV's fault or the SAT REC's fault, because if it's my Sony I can get a new one as it is under a 5 year warranty, this tv is only a few months old. Why would hdmi affect audio on the optical? Stranger things have happened I guess...But another point is that I have audio glitches through the hdmi cable to the tv, but to the onkyo thru the optical the audio actually drops for a second then comes back? HDMI the problem for both??


My friend has a TV that only allows PCM input, not DD. I think what was happening is that the TV was complaining about the DD back to the AT&T box. You would periodically see a message on the TV that said audio format not compatible.

#12 OFFLINE   nikeboiz

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 01:13 PM

still having audio problems. i believe it is the tv after all. working to get it swapped out using my expensive extended warranty!! will keep you posted....

#13 OFFLINE   nikeboiz

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 11:41 AM

I am having my Sony tv swapped out today for a brand new LN40B650 Samsung. I found info on Sony's own web site that states audio problems on the model kdl40v5100 as well as other models. The swap is covered under my warranty at no cost to me. Plus my five year warranty transfers to the Samsung.(purchased the 5 yr) I found a few online posts of people who have had audio problems and getting rid of the Sony TV corrected the problem. So I am hoping that with the swap, my audio drops will go away. The drops do not happen as much as they used to, but there nonetheless. So, this morning I also had electricians run a new dedicated circuit (20 amp line) to my entertainment center with 6 plug ins. So everything will have it's own power socket!! So to date I have had three vip722's, new hdmi/optical cables, new coax from the satelllite to inside the house, This morning new 20 amp dedicated circuit with 6 plugs ins, different set up configs and settings and still have audio drops. Now, after lunch, my new Samsung will arrive to replace the Sony, if audio clears up then it was my Sony tv, if it does not clear up then my next thing to do is replace my Home theater system(Onkyo), if that does not work, then back to Dish Network. I am hoping after my new tv gets in place all will be fine. I will let you know.....
Here is the link that Sony.com admits to problems with audio that a software update will fix, so they say....http://esupport.sony...&mdl=KDL40V5100

I will update when I know what's up!

#14 OFFLINE   nikeboiz

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 03:18 PM

got my tv swapped out from the sony to the samsung. still getting the dang audio drops through the home theater system!! What the?? i am getting tired of this. ok, now I have it narrowed to dish network or the onkyo.
On the new tv, I tried switching from a hdmi cable to component cable from the dish receiver to the tv for video signal only and left the optical cable in place from the dish receiver to the onkyo. still getting audio drops.
Through the tv the audio does not actually drop but has a glitch sound rather and is an actual drop through the home theater system(onkyo)
I am sooooo P.O.ed...

Dish network or onkyo is the problem. any guess which one?

Edited by nikeboiz, 08 April 2010 - 03:21 PM.
spelling error


#15 OFFLINE   nikeboiz

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 10:18 PM

anyone? help! is there a solution to my problem that you know of?

in the meantime....
I will be talking with dish network tomorrow about a report that is going to go to the engineers to see if it is a software issue with the vip722k. not sure how that will go over.

#16 ONLINE   Grandude

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Posted 09 April 2010 - 10:05 AM

got my tv swapped out from the sony to the samsung. still getting the dang audio drops through the home theater system!! What the?? i am getting tired of this. ok, now I have it narrowed to dish network or the onkyo.
On the new tv, I tried switching from a hdmi cable to component cable from the dish receiver to the tv for video signal only and left the optical cable in place from the dish receiver to the onkyo. still getting audio drops.
Through the tv the audio does not actually drop but has a glitch sound rather and is an actual drop through the home theater system(onkyo)
I am sooooo P.O.ed...

Dish network or onkyo is the problem. any guess which one?

My guess is that the Onkyo takes a few seconds longer to decide how it is going to process the sound coming from the Dish receiver when the 'glitch' occurs. I also have an Onkyo (TX-SR705) and have similar audio drops which is annoying but not a deal killer for me yet.

I replaced a JVC RX-8030VBK for a slightly worse problem. Every now and then it would turn down the volume to 0 on it's own. Never found out why so replaced it with the Onkyo. Still wondering if I should have got a Kenwood instead.

I guess if I were you I would try to get a loan with offer to buy of a different receiver from a friendly retailer in your area to see if that would solve your problem. In my case, I put off doing things like that as my interconnections to all the 'stuff' I have is very confusing. (Luckily my Harmony remote remembers what's what.)

Oh, btw, you should see the indicator panel on your Onkyo changing when this happens if my guess is correct.............

Brian...reporting from the left coast
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#17 OFFLINE   nikeboiz

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 07:57 AM

Dish is coming back out for signal issues

722k box signals
110 is signal 75
119 is signal 78
129 is signal 50

my second box is a non high def reg set top box
119 is a signal 13
129 is a no locked signal
110 is a signal 74

Other than replacing some cable on the outside of the house, no diagnostics at all!!
Has this been my problem all along? The techs they send out do no diagnostics at all. What the hell are they paid for? They just say oh, you get a picture so it's all good!! WTF!!
What do you guys think of these reading? Any advice?

Edited by nikeboiz, 11 April 2010 - 08:01 AM.
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#18 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 01:04 PM

Dish is coming back out for signal issues

722k box signals
110 is signal 75
119 is signal 78
129 is signal 50

my second box is a non high def reg set top box
119 is a signal 13
129 is a no locked signal
110 is a signal 74

Other than replacing some cable on the outside of the house, no diagnostics at all!!
Has this been my problem all along? The techs they send out do no diagnostics at all. What the hell are they paid for? They just say oh, you get a picture so it's all good!! WTF!!
What do you guys think of these reading? Any advice?

I'm not sure what good it would be to have an HD sat like 129 on a "regular" SD box. But what box is it by number?

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#19 OFFLINE   nikeboiz

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 02:14 PM

my main tv is high definition with a HD box VIP722k,
my second tv is not high definition with a dish311 box.
What does that have to do with signal, nothing!?
i guess you are missing the whole point of me posting my signals.
if there are bad readings, then isn't that a problem?

any input on signal would be appreciated....
Thanks....

Edited by nikeboiz, 11 April 2010 - 02:18 PM.
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#20 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 04:27 PM

Your 722k signals are fine. Your 311's 110 is fine, 119 is low though there are transponders that are low, so make sure you're comparing apples to apples. And much to my surprise it appears you do need 129. So you need it.

"In a hundred years there'll be a whole new set of people."
"Always poke the bears. They sleep too much for their own good."

"If you're good enough, they'll talk about you." - Tom Harmon
A GEEZER who remembers watching TV in 1951 and was an Echostar customer from 1988 to 2008, now a Dish Network customer.
My AV Setup
My Slingbox Pro HD Experience
My Blog: The Redwood Guardian





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