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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Upgrading the internal hard drive on an HR24


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510 replies to this topic

#251 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 04:52 PM

If they were smart they would just design a dvr with a slide in drive to save the hassle.


Now That Is A Terrific Idea!!!

I have a PC with an External Drive Bay and you just slide the External Drive in and you are Good To Go!!!
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#252 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 05:01 PM

...If every other drive in the world survives without foam I can't imagine not having foam would reduce the life of the drive.
...

It's definitely trade-off from engineering stand point, while it absorbing vibration/reduce noise the 'sponge' degrade air convection around the drive ie increasing internal temperature eg reduce life of the drive.

#253 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 05:02 PM

It's definitely trade-off from engineering stand point, while it absorbing vibration/reduce noise the 'sponge' degrade air convection around the drive ie increasing internal temperature eg reduce life of the drive.


That was my point as Heat is the Number One Enemy of a Hard Drive!!!
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#254 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 09:49 PM

That was my point as Heat is the Number One Enemy of a Hard Drive!!!

Well....maybe #2.....right after that dropping incident you had. !rolling
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#255 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 07:28 AM

Well....maybe #2.....right after that dropping incident you had. !rolling


Yes, but the hard drive was wrapped in Foam Padding so it didn't hurt the hard drive at all.
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#256 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 09:33 AM

I think you've got a pretty good handle on the sponge issue. Go with your gut.

Rich


Yes, of course the foam serves a purpose with the original drive or it wouldn't be there.

Now, does the replacement drive "require" the same thing? I would argue no it is not required. It's a hard drive and most hard drives work perfectly fine without a foamy sponge pressed against them. There could be benefits in some applications like a DVR, but "required?" I think not...

Have you seen 2TB replacement drives that fit just fine with the foam? If so what kind?



I agree with this. They've taken great care to minimize vibration and dampen noise in the DVR. The hard drive is supported by rubber plugs which I'm certain are for minimizing vibration & noise. And it seems like a logical conclusion that foam's purpose is the same.

We could be wrong, it may have some other purpose. But is there any harm in running the DVR without the foam? Almost certainly not. Is there any harm in jamming it in between the drive and the cage? Possibly. I'll err on the side of caution here.

I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed before as it seems any 2TB upgrade would run into this problem of what to do with the foam...



#257 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 09:35 AM

I put my hard drive in a Zip Loc Bag and then use a Sharpie to note which DVR it came from with the RID # of that DVR in case I need to take out the replacement drive because of failure. However, since I Own mine I would just put the original back in and if it works go buy another larger drive (2 TB) and then put that in the DVR and I'm back in business.

Awhile back there were tons of posts about drives thrashing and making an inordinate amount of noise. So maybe that is why they added that foam padding.


The first "spongeworthy" HRs were the 20-100s, long before we had the thrashing problems.

Rich

#258 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 09:38 AM

Yes, of course the foam serves a purpose with the original drive or it wouldn't be there.

Have you seen 2TB replacement drives that fit just fine with the foam? If so what kind?

Hitachi drives are a bit thinner, and work very, very well here now for some time. More important...the HR24-100, HR24-200, and HR24-500 models each have some slight variations on how the drives are mounted inside, so the "foam issue" does not come into play the same way in all 3 models. I read more about the -200 foam variation than the other two models.

They've taken great care to minimize vibration and dampen noise in the DVR. The hard drive is supported by rubber plugs which I'm certain are for minimizing vibration & noise. And it seems like a logical conclusion that foam's purpose is the same.

I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed before as it seems any 2TB upgrade would run into this problem of what to do with the foam...

Agree....noise reduction/vibration control are the main purposes for the drive mount techniques used...eliminate any one of the methods...and one might think it defeats the intended purpose/results as well.
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#259 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 09:40 AM

It's definitely trade-off from engineering stand point, while it absorbing vibration/reduce noise the 'sponge' degrade air convection around the drive ie increasing internal temperature eg reduce life of the drive.


Agree, I do. Also, heat and foam padding don't usually get along too well.

Rich

#260 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 09:49 AM

The first "spongeworthy" HRs were the 20-100s, long before we had the thrashing problems.

Rich


Ah, so you have Watched "Seinfeld" a time or two!!! The "Spongeworthy" Episode was indeed Funny!!! :lol:
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#261 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 09:49 AM

Agree, I do. Also, heat and foam padding don't usually get along too well.

Rich

If we're talking about extreme heat...sure. But that's not the case here, and the foam is not really any kind of issue.

The drives in the HR24 series are "green" and give off less heat than most previous HD DVR models they've released.

The HD DVR (side to side) ventilation is very good in at least 2 of the 3 HR24 models (HR24-100 and HR24-200). I've seen the foam mounting done in some desktop PC's as well - no problem.

The -500 model has back-exit cooling, which seems to have slightly less outward air flow than the other two.
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#262 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 09:52 AM

If we're talking about extreme heat...sure. But that's not the case here, and the foam is not really any kind of issue.

The drives in the HR24 series are "green" and give off less heat than most previous HD DVR models they've released.

The HD DVR (side to side) ventilation is very good in at least 2 of the 3 HR24 models (HR24-100 and HR24-200). I've seen the foam mounting done in some desktop PC's as well - no problem.

The -500 model has back-exit cooling, which seems to have slightly less outward air flow than the other two.


Sounds like you just might be some kind of Hard Drive/DVR Expert!!! :D
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#263 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 09:55 AM

Sounds like you just might be some kind of Hard Drive/DVR Expert!!! :D

Not really....just have seen many of them "naked". :D

The evolution of how hard drives are mounted has been interesting....starting with the HR20 series, then HR21's, etc. It's obvious the specs have changed and improved over time based on field results (vibration noise being one of the more common past "issues" in some models back in the olden days).
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#264 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:11 AM

Ah, so you have Watched "Seinfeld" a time or two!!! The "Spongeworthy" Episode was indeed Funny!!! :lol:


Yup, as soon as I finish watching all the CSIs on NetFlix, I'm gonna watch Seinfeld from start to finish on NF. A friend of mine gave me a complete set that he had compiled from various channels and had sorted them by date, but the DVDs were of poor quality and I would like to watch them on a better platform.

Rich

#265 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:14 AM

Not really....just have seen many of them "naked". :D

The evolution of how hard drives are mounted has been interesting....starting with the HR20 series, then HR21's, etc. It's obvious the specs have changed and improved over time based on field results (vibration noise being one of the more common past "issues" in some models back in the olden days).


Out of all the HRs that I've had, only a couple 20-700s actually had HDD vibration and I've still got one leased 20-700 that occasionally does it. A quick swat calms it down quite nicely. :lol:

Rich

#266 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:15 AM

A quick swat calms it down quite nicely. :lol:

:eek::eek::eek:

I think I've read a few other folks used that same technique. :D:lol:
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#267 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:17 AM

Not really....just have seen many of them "naked". :D

The evolution of how hard drives are mounted has been interesting....starting with the HR20 series, then HR21's, etc. It's obvious the specs have changed and improved over time based on field results (vibration noise being one of the more common past "issues" in some models back in the olden days).


Ah But you did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once, didn't you???

That's why you know so much about drives and DVRs!!! :)
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#268 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:18 AM

Ah But you did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once, didn't you???

That's why you know so much about drives and DVRs!!! :)

2008- 2011 Platinum member actually...hmmm.... :lol:
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#269 OFFLINE   bobcamp1

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:19 AM

If we're talking about extreme heat...sure. But that's not the case here, and the foam is not really any kind of issue.

The drives in the HR24 series are "green" and give off less heat than most previous HD DVR models they've released.

The HD DVR (side to side) ventilation is very good in at least 2 of the 3 HR24 models (HR24-100 and HR24-200). I've seen the foam mounting done in some desktop PC's as well - no problem.

The -500 model has back-exit cooling, which seems to have slightly less outward air flow than the other two.


As a former hard drive expert, who has also seen some hard drives buck naked, shock/vibration is the #1 killer of hard drives. There are moving parts that have to move with extreme precision, and they don't like it at all when they are budged, especially when powered on.

Heat is interesting. It is actually good for the hard drive up until around 60 deg. C, but then reliability rapidly drops off after that. So the upper temp. listed in the datasheet is 55 C just to be safe.

#270 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:22 AM

As a former hard drive expert, who has also seen some hard drives buck naked, shock/vibration is the #1 killer of hard drives. There are moving parts that have to move with extreme precision, and they don't like it at all when they are budged, especially when powered on.

Heat is interesting. It is actually good for the hard drive up until around 60 deg. C, but then reliability rapidly drops off after that. So the upper temp. listed in the datasheet is 55 C just to be safe.

Totally agree on both points.

In various previous threads...vibration noise from the drives, especially the HR20 units which has very rigid mount setups...ended up being reported with "loud noises". The new techniques used in the HR24 series are a major improvement along those lines.

Rubber grommets, softer mount hardware, foam, and other things (including newer/better/quieter drives) have virtually silenced those side effects in the new units.
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#271 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:41 AM

:eek::eek::eek:

I think I've read a few other folks used that same technique. :D:lol:


Well, it works and I'm certainly not gonna give up a functioning HR when a simple swat of the hand solves the problem. :)

Rich

#272 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:43 AM

As a former hard drive expert, who has also seen some hard drives buck naked, shock/vibration is the #1 killer of hard drives. There are moving parts that have to move with extreme precision, and they don't like it at all when they are budged, especially when powered on.

Heat is interesting. It is actually good for the hard drive up until around 60 deg. C, but then reliability rapidly drops off after that. So the upper temp. listed in the datasheet is 55 C just to be safe.


Totally Agree but my DVRs don't move about. They stay put and I never move them so unless you would have one in an RV I wouldn't think that you would have that much Vibration.
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#273 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 11:00 AM

Well, it works and I'm certainly not gonna give up a functioning HR when a simple swat of the hand solves the problem. :)

Rich

I read somewhere that was called the Rex Ryan technique. :eek2::D:lol:

Totally Agree but my DVRs don't move about. They stay put and I never move them so unless you would have one in an RV I wouldn't think that you would have that much Vibration.

Since the vibration can come from loose mounting components, as well as vibration-related noise from the drive itself...DVR's can sit in a location and still "give off vibration noise"....as one specific poster (who will remain nameless) at DBSTalk has indicated perhaps 50 times in the past. That observation was accurate...it's the cure that varies. ;)
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#274 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 02:06 PM

As a former hard drive expert, who has also seen some hard drives buck naked, shock/vibration is the #1 killer of hard drives. There are moving parts that have to move with extreme precision, and they don't like it at all when they are budged, especially when powered on.

Heat is interesting. It is actually good for the hard drive up until around 60 deg. C, but then reliability rapidly drops off after that. So the upper temp. listed in the datasheet is 55 C just to be safe.


That's external influence, while we're talking about the 'sponge' blocking heat dissipation from the drive. Strictly speaking, the sponge will not protect from excessive external shock/vibrations, it just dampening nose/HDD vibration of the HDD itself. And definitely it will "help" raising HDD internal temp.

#275 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 02:10 PM

If it's not a 24-200, I'll be happy to do it for you, just cover the shipping back and forth.

Rich


Thanks Rich, I may take you up on that in due time. It's a 24-100. :)
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