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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Upgrading the internal hard drive on an HR24


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510 replies to this topic

#261 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 09:49 AM

Agree, I do. Also, heat and foam padding don't usually get along too well.

Rich

If we're talking about extreme heat...sure. But that's not the case here, and the foam is not really any kind of issue.

The drives in the HR24 series are "green" and give off less heat than most previous HD DVR models they've released.

The HD DVR (side to side) ventilation is very good in at least 2 of the 3 HR24 models (HR24-100 and HR24-200). I've seen the foam mounting done in some desktop PC's as well - no problem.

The -500 model has back-exit cooling, which seems to have slightly less outward air flow than the other two.
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#262 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 09:52 AM

If we're talking about extreme heat...sure. But that's not the case here, and the foam is not really any kind of issue.

The drives in the HR24 series are "green" and give off less heat than most previous HD DVR models they've released.

The HD DVR (side to side) ventilation is very good in at least 2 of the 3 HR24 models (HR24-100 and HR24-200). I've seen the foam mounting done in some desktop PC's as well - no problem.

The -500 model has back-exit cooling, which seems to have slightly less outward air flow than the other two.


Sounds like you just might be some kind of Hard Drive/DVR Expert!!! :D
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#263 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 09:55 AM

Sounds like you just might be some kind of Hard Drive/DVR Expert!!! :D

Not really....just have seen many of them "naked". :D

The evolution of how hard drives are mounted has been interesting....starting with the HR20 series, then HR21's, etc. It's obvious the specs have changed and improved over time based on field results (vibration noise being one of the more common past "issues" in some models back in the olden days).
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#264 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:11 AM

Ah, so you have Watched "Seinfeld" a time or two!!! The "Spongeworthy" Episode was indeed Funny!!! :lol:


Yup, as soon as I finish watching all the CSIs on NetFlix, I'm gonna watch Seinfeld from start to finish on NF. A friend of mine gave me a complete set that he had compiled from various channels and had sorted them by date, but the DVDs were of poor quality and I would like to watch them on a better platform.

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#265 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:14 AM

Not really....just have seen many of them "naked". :D

The evolution of how hard drives are mounted has been interesting....starting with the HR20 series, then HR21's, etc. It's obvious the specs have changed and improved over time based on field results (vibration noise being one of the more common past "issues" in some models back in the olden days).


Out of all the HRs that I've had, only a couple 20-700s actually had HDD vibration and I've still got one leased 20-700 that occasionally does it. A quick swat calms it down quite nicely. :lol:

Rich

#266 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:15 AM

A quick swat calms it down quite nicely. :lol:

:eek::eek::eek:

I think I've read a few other folks used that same technique. :D:lol:
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#267 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:17 AM

Not really....just have seen many of them "naked". :D

The evolution of how hard drives are mounted has been interesting....starting with the HR20 series, then HR21's, etc. It's obvious the specs have changed and improved over time based on field results (vibration noise being one of the more common past "issues" in some models back in the olden days).


Ah But you did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once, didn't you???

That's why you know so much about drives and DVRs!!! :)
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#268 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:18 AM

Ah But you did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once, didn't you???

That's why you know so much about drives and DVRs!!! :)

2008- 2011 Platinum member actually...hmmm.... :lol:
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#269 OFFLINE   bobcamp1

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:19 AM

If we're talking about extreme heat...sure. But that's not the case here, and the foam is not really any kind of issue.

The drives in the HR24 series are "green" and give off less heat than most previous HD DVR models they've released.

The HD DVR (side to side) ventilation is very good in at least 2 of the 3 HR24 models (HR24-100 and HR24-200). I've seen the foam mounting done in some desktop PC's as well - no problem.

The -500 model has back-exit cooling, which seems to have slightly less outward air flow than the other two.


As a former hard drive expert, who has also seen some hard drives buck naked, shock/vibration is the #1 killer of hard drives. There are moving parts that have to move with extreme precision, and they don't like it at all when they are budged, especially when powered on.

Heat is interesting. It is actually good for the hard drive up until around 60 deg. C, but then reliability rapidly drops off after that. So the upper temp. listed in the datasheet is 55 C just to be safe.

#270 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:22 AM

As a former hard drive expert, who has also seen some hard drives buck naked, shock/vibration is the #1 killer of hard drives. There are moving parts that have to move with extreme precision, and they don't like it at all when they are budged, especially when powered on.

Heat is interesting. It is actually good for the hard drive up until around 60 deg. C, but then reliability rapidly drops off after that. So the upper temp. listed in the datasheet is 55 C just to be safe.

Totally agree on both points.

In various previous threads...vibration noise from the drives, especially the HR20 units which has very rigid mount setups...ended up being reported with "loud noises". The new techniques used in the HR24 series are a major improvement along those lines.

Rubber grommets, softer mount hardware, foam, and other things (including newer/better/quieter drives) have virtually silenced those side effects in the new units.
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#271 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:41 AM

:eek::eek::eek:

I think I've read a few other folks used that same technique. :D:lol:


Well, it works and I'm certainly not gonna give up a functioning HR when a simple swat of the hand solves the problem. :)

Rich

#272 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:43 AM

As a former hard drive expert, who has also seen some hard drives buck naked, shock/vibration is the #1 killer of hard drives. There are moving parts that have to move with extreme precision, and they don't like it at all when they are budged, especially when powered on.

Heat is interesting. It is actually good for the hard drive up until around 60 deg. C, but then reliability rapidly drops off after that. So the upper temp. listed in the datasheet is 55 C just to be safe.


Totally Agree but my DVRs don't move about. They stay put and I never move them so unless you would have one in an RV I wouldn't think that you would have that much Vibration.
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#273 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 11:00 AM

Well, it works and I'm certainly not gonna give up a functioning HR when a simple swat of the hand solves the problem. :)

Rich

I read somewhere that was called the Rex Ryan technique. :eek2::D:lol:

Totally Agree but my DVRs don't move about. They stay put and I never move them so unless you would have one in an RV I wouldn't think that you would have that much Vibration.

Since the vibration can come from loose mounting components, as well as vibration-related noise from the drive itself...DVR's can sit in a location and still "give off vibration noise"....as one specific poster (who will remain nameless) at DBSTalk has indicated perhaps 50 times in the past. That observation was accurate...it's the cure that varies. ;)
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#274 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 02:06 PM

As a former hard drive expert, who has also seen some hard drives buck naked, shock/vibration is the #1 killer of hard drives. There are moving parts that have to move with extreme precision, and they don't like it at all when they are budged, especially when powered on.

Heat is interesting. It is actually good for the hard drive up until around 60 deg. C, but then reliability rapidly drops off after that. So the upper temp. listed in the datasheet is 55 C just to be safe.


That's external influence, while we're talking about the 'sponge' blocking heat dissipation from the drive. Strictly speaking, the sponge will not protect from excessive external shock/vibrations, it just dampening nose/HDD vibration of the HDD itself. And definitely it will "help" raising HDD internal temp.

#275 ONLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 02:10 PM

If it's not a 24-200, I'll be happy to do it for you, just cover the shipping back and forth.

Rich


Thanks Rich, I may take you up on that in due time. It's a 24-100. :)
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#276 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 02:12 PM

That's external influence, while we're talking about the 'sponge' blocking heat dissipation from the drive. Strictly speaking, the sponge will not protect from excessive external shock/vibrations, it just dampening nose/HDD vibration of the HDD itself. And definitely it will "help" raising HDD internal temp.


I Agree 100% With Your Assessment. Well Stated in my Opinion.
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#277 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 02:24 PM

That's external influence, while we're talking about the 'sponge' blocking heat dissipation from the drive. Strictly speaking, the sponge will not protect from excessive external shock/vibrations, it just dampening nose/HDD vibration of the HDD itself. And definitely it will "help" raising HDD internal temp.

I Agree 100% With Your Assessment. Well Stated in my Opinion.

I respectfully disagree, having seen how the internal drives are mounted within all 3 HR24 units.

The foam will indeed aid the vibration sourced from the hard disk drive and dissipated within the mounting housing and through the HD DVR itself thereafter. If that were not so, there would be little reason to even have the foam, let alone the rubber grommet mounts. The HR24 drives are now so quiet that the foam is virtually irrelevant, as far as hard drive noise alone.

For that very reason, installing a "different" drive without the foam risks introducing the same vibration issues.
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#278 OFFLINE   uscpsycho

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 04:28 PM

I respectfully disagree, having seen how the internal drives are mounted within all 3 HR24 units.

The foam will indeed aid the vibration sourced from the hard disk drive and dissipated within the mounting housing and through the HD DVR itself thereafter. If that were not so, there would be little reason to even have the foam, let alone the rubber grommet mounts. The HR24 drives are now so quiet that the foam is virtually irrelevant, as far as hard drive noise alone.

For that very reason, installing a "different" drive without the foam risks introducing the same vibration issues.


I think we've gotten to the point of splitting hairs.

What percentage of all the world's hard drives are protected against vibrations using foam? Very few. And I don't think there are a whole lot of hard drive failures that would have been avoided by using foam. So I think these "risks" from vibration issues are a non-issue, at least in a home-based DVR application. I mean hard drives aren't so fragile that they are susceptible to damage from their own vibrations...

Maybe the foam gives some minimal protection against failure but I think the main purpose is noise dampening.

In any case, with the WD 2TB Green drive I think the foam is a bad idea because of the amount of pressure it physically puts against the top of the drive. This cannot be good. If I was using a hard drive that is thinner and doesn't compress the foam so much I'd keep it in there. But with foam or without foam I don't think it matters much at the end of the day.

#279 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 04:32 PM

I think we've gotten to the point of splitting hairs.

Maybe the foam gives some minimal protection against failure but I think the Main Purpose is Noise Dampening.


I Agree as we have had alot of Noisey DVRs in the Past and a lot of complaints so maybe they went with the Foam to lessen the Noise.
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#280 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 04:42 PM

That's external influence, while we're talking about the 'sponge' blocking heat dissipation from the drive. Strictly speaking, the sponge will not protect from excessive external shock/vibrations, it just dampening nose/HDD vibration of the HDD itself. And definitely it will "help" raising HDD internal temp.


I respectfully disagree, having seen how the internal drives are mounted within all 3 HR24 units.

The foam will indeed aid the vibration sourced from the hard disk drive and dissipated within the mounting housing and through the HD DVR itself thereafter. If that were not so, there would be little reason to even have the foam, let alone the rubber grommet mounts. The HR24 drives are now so quiet that the foam is virtually irrelevant, as far as hard drive noise alone.

For that very reason, installing a "different" drive without the foam risks introducing the same vibration issues.


DO you really disagree on that fact the 'sponge' will NOT protect the HDD from external shocks/shaking [by you for example] ? Plus I highlighted you factual "agree". Huh ? Adding your word "the foam is virtually irrelevant" ...

"Vibration issue" ? From your [customer] stand point the 'issue' is just a noise, not an issue.




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