Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

Upgrading the internal hard drive on an HR24


  • Please log in to reply
510 replies to this topic

#141 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

hdtvfan0001

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 32,083 posts
Joined: Jul 28, 2004

Posted 28 September 2010 - 02:44 AM

Pretty sure no one promotes opening leases irds at all. Helping unknown users?

Unknowing was the word used (as in folks who are unaware they are not allowed to simply open up their leased units).

Since most users do not own their HR24's...and some are new to DirecTV...reading some of the posts in this thread....the impression is that chaging out internal drives are permissable (which is true if the unit is owned of course).

:backtotop

Interesting to see that the -200 units have more of a challenge because of the internal drive mount (when compared with the -500 or -100). Also good to know.
DBSTalk CHAT ROOM MODERATOR
DirecTV Customer Since 1996

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#142 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

Mike Bertelson

    6EQUJ5 WOW!

  • Moderators
  • 13,953 posts
Joined: Jan 24, 2007

Posted 28 September 2010 - 03:40 AM

Unknowing was the word used (as in folks who are unaware they are not allowed to simply open up their leased units).

Since most users do not own their HR24's...and some are new to DirecTV...reading some of the posts in this thread....the impression is that chaging out internal drives are permissable (which is true if the unit is owned of course).

:backtotop

Interesting to see that the -200 units have more of a challenge because of the internal drive mount (when compared with the -500 or -100). Also good to know.

It is interesting that the mounting system is quite different.

Mike

µß
Since it costs 2.4¢ to produce a penny, my 2¢ worth is really 4.8¢ worth.  That 4.8¢ is my own and not the 4.8¢ of DIRECTV, Dish, or anyone else for that matter.


#143 OFFLINE   Joe C

Joe C

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 297 posts
Joined: Mar 02, 2005

Posted 28 September 2010 - 05:49 AM

Well I've got to agree with Sim-X, 100%, he is on the money.

That said, I would open my leased HR's to upgrade/replace the drive if the need arose. I and only I am responsible for my actions and would deal with the consequences from Directv should that day ever come.

#144 OFFLINE   Sim-X

Sim-X

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 381 posts
Joined: Sep 23, 2009

Posted 28 September 2010 - 06:19 AM

When I first took my -500 apart, I wasn't even sure my drive was going to fit. I was surprised that the drive in there was so slim. It did fit fine but that is good to know if I decide to get another box in the future.

Has anyone successfully upgraded the internal of a -200?

#145 OFFLINE   TBlazer07

TBlazer07

    Grumpy Grampy

  • Registered
  • 4,777 posts
Joined: Feb 05, 2009

Posted 28 September 2010 - 07:15 AM

Ah, now it makes sense! I was wondering how they would have known if you put the original drive back in before sending it back for "refurbishment", but if they did an audit while it was in service, that would sure do it.

Wonder what their recourse would be? Total disconnection or just bricking the receiver?


An audit of hard drive serial numbers, LMAO ..... they can't even keep track of free PPV coupons! Actually right after they get the audio drop problems resolved they'll work on logging hard drive serial number so they can catch you putting an original drive back in the box before sending it back. Top priority. :P

Actually if they did do it the recourse would be 6 months of having to read all the messages over and over from those maintaining or vying for their special badges by saying "it's leased, you can't do that, it's leased, you can't do that, it's leased, you can't do that, it's leased, you can't do that, it's leased, you can't do that."
:lol:

#146 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 21,392 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 28 September 2010 - 08:07 AM

It is interesting that the mounting system is quite different.

Mike


Particularly interesting since I've been told by several people that the specs sent to each manufacturer were identical. Send the identical specs to several manufacturers and you should get identical devices. At least in my world.

Rich

#147 OFFLINE   anleva

anleva

    Icon

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 567 posts
Joined: Nov 14, 2007

Posted 28 September 2010 - 08:36 AM

An audit of hard drive serial numbers, LMAO ..... they can't even keep track of free PPV coupons! Actually right after they get the audio drop problems resolved they'll work on logging hard drive serial number so they can catch you putting an original drive back in the box before sending it back. Top priority. :P

Actually if they did do it the recourse would be 6 months of having to read all the messages over and over from those maintaining or vying for their special badges by saying "it's leased, you can't do that, it's leased, you can't do that, it's leased, you can't do that, it's leased, you can't do that, it's leased, you can't do that."
:lol:


:D:lol:

Posted Image

Badges? We don't need no stinking badges

#148 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

Mike Bertelson

    6EQUJ5 WOW!

  • Moderators
  • 13,953 posts
Joined: Jan 24, 2007

Posted 28 September 2010 - 09:22 AM

Particularly interesting since I've been told by several people that the specs sent to each manufacturer were identical. Send the identical specs to several manufacturers and you should get identical devices. At least in my world.

Rich

I'm guessing but I suspect the spec are performance based using specific components and not "nuts & bolts" locations. If that's the case then where the drive is and how it's mounted is then at the manufacturer's discretion.

It's a theory. :grin:

Mike

Edited by Mike Bertelson, 28 September 2010 - 09:28 AM.

µß
Since it costs 2.4¢ to produce a penny, my 2¢ worth is really 4.8¢ worth.  That 4.8¢ is my own and not the 4.8¢ of DIRECTV, Dish, or anyone else for that matter.


#149 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 21,392 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 28 September 2010 - 09:47 AM

I'm guessing but I suspect the spec are performance based using specific components and not "nuts & bolts" locations. If that's the case then where the drive is and how it's mounted is then at the manufacturer's discretion.

It's a theory. :grin:

Mike


Mike, don't take this as an insult, but have you ever worked in an industrial setting? When we sent manufacturers specs they were supposed to follow those specs to the letter, not deviate from the specs when they felt the need.

Again, I bring up something as simple as a Bud bottle (I worked in the glass industry for a few years before settling into the chemical manufacturing world). Deviate just a touch with a bottle of Bud and you lose the contract, at worst, or are put into the lower echelon of suppliers. Specs are specs. Defined by engineers and should produce identical devices or items.

Go buy a part from your local NAPA store. You'll notice it is identical to the original part that is on your car. Is it made by GM? No, but it's made to GM's specs.

Rich

#150 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

Mike Bertelson

    6EQUJ5 WOW!

  • Moderators
  • 13,953 posts
Joined: Jan 24, 2007

Posted 28 September 2010 - 10:04 AM

Mike, don't take this as an insult, but have you ever worked in an industrial setting? When we sent manufacturers specs they were supposed to follow those specs to the letter, not deviate from the specs when they felt the need.

Again, I bring up something as simple as a Bud bottle (I worked in the glass industry for a few years before settling into the chemical manufacturing world). Deviate just a touch with a bottle of Bud and you lose the contract, at worst, or are put into the lower echelon of suppliers. Specs are specs. Defined by engineers and should produce identical devices or items.

Go buy a part from your local NAPA store. You'll notice it is identical to the original part that is on your car. Is it made by GM? No, but it's made to GM's specs.

Rich

No problem Rich. No offense taken. :)

As a matter of fact, I work in such an industry right now. Most of what we design and implement are based on using specific components and meeting certain performance criteria (in my case fluid mechanical systems). As to the physical layout of those components, that we determine to meet the criteria specified by the customer. In certain cases from one ship to another (we build ships for the Navy) components unrelated to my piping system require changing the geometry of my system while maintaining the specified criteria.

IOW, we use the components specified, using the materials specified, and meet the performance criteria specified and still have a different physical arrangement from ship to ship. This same premise applies at scale ranging from large piping systems to electronic components. Using the requested parts and meeting the specified performance in a different arrangement. It's done all the time in engineering design. ;)

In the case of a Bud bottle, a deviation from specs is a deviation from brand recognition.

I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve gotten a replacement part that the dealer such as Chevy and from a store such as NAPA and in each case the part was different from the original, but was considered equivalent to OEM...I’m just sayin’ :grin:

Mike

Edited by Mike Bertelson, 28 September 2010 - 12:26 PM.
clarification

µß
Since it costs 2.4¢ to produce a penny, my 2¢ worth is really 4.8¢ worth.  That 4.8¢ is my own and not the 4.8¢ of DIRECTV, Dish, or anyone else for that matter.


#151 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 21,392 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 28 September 2010 - 12:34 PM

No problem Rich. No offense taken. :)

As a matter of fact, I work in such an industry right now. Most of what we design and implement are based on using specific components and meeting certain performance criteria (in my case fluid mechanical systems). As to the physical layout of those components, that we determine to meet the criteria specified by the customer. In certain cases from one ship to another (we build ships for the Navy) components unrelated to my piping system require changing the geometry of my system while maintaining the specified criteria.

IOW, we use the components specified, using the materials specified, and meet the performance criteria specified and still have a different physical arrangement from ship to ship. This same premise applies at scale ranging from large piping systems to electronic components. Using the requested parts and meeting the specified performance in different configurations. It's done all the time in engineering design. ;)


Ships I can understand. There's no way every ship in the fleet is gonna be the same. Or even every destroyer within a class. And piping runs can vary just as conduit runs can vary. What I'm talking about are "Identical Specifications". That only means one thing to me.

In the case of a Bud bottle, a deviation from specs is a deviation from brand recognition.


Not quite what I was talking about. The molds for the bottles are hand made (or were, way back when) and if one mold happened to have an extra or a missing eagle, Bud would consider letting that out on the market unacceptable and would take steps that would terrify a bottle supplier financially. They want each bottle to match the specs they send the glass house, they want identical bottles.

I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve gotten a replacement part that the dealer such as Chevy and from a store such as NAPA and in each case the part was different from the original, but was considered equivalent to OEM...I’m just sayin’ :grin:


Yeah, I've gone thru that too, but the screw holes were always where they were supposed to be and the parts fit. You can't say that about a 24-500 and a 24-200. I have been told that the specs were "identical". That would mean to me that I can take my owned 24-200 and put any part from the 24-500 in it and it will work. I don't think that's true.

Rich

#152 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

Mike Bertelson

    6EQUJ5 WOW!

  • Moderators
  • 13,953 posts
Joined: Jan 24, 2007

Posted 28 September 2010 - 02:05 PM

Ships I can understand. There's no way every ship in the fleet is gonna be the same. Or even every destroyer within a class. And piping runs can vary just as conduit runs can vary. What I'm talking about are "Identical Specifications". That only means one thing to me.



Not quite what I was talking about. The molds for the bottles are hand made (or were, way back when) and if one mold happened to have an extra or a missing eagle, Bud would consider letting that out on the market unacceptable and would take steps that would terrify a bottle supplier financially. They want each bottle to match the specs they send the glass house, they want identical bottles.



Yeah, I've gone thru that too, but the screw holes were always where they were supposed to be and the parts fit. You can't say that about a 24-500 and a 24-200. I have been told that the specs were "identical". That would mean to me that I can take my owned 24-200 and put any part from the 24-500 in it and it will work. I don't think that's true.

Rich

You were told that specs included the construction diagrams down to component locations, mounts, brackets....down to the very last screw? I find that very hard to believe, especially considering that every manufacturer of every HR has been different inside. That would tell me that there aren’t any construction/assembly diagrams with tolerances and measurements...just the required components and system performance.

Where did you hear the construction, assembly, and mesurement specs were identical?

I have never seen every piece of electronic hardware that was identical. In my usta-be-in-IT days, we ordered 500 Compaq ProLinea desktops. We got them in over a six month period. I can tell you for a fact that, even though they were all the exact same model PCs, the were many differences between them; usually based on where they were made.

It has been my experience that my ship analogy extends to most things big and small.

Mike

µß
Since it costs 2.4¢ to produce a penny, my 2¢ worth is really 4.8¢ worth.  That 4.8¢ is my own and not the 4.8¢ of DIRECTV, Dish, or anyone else for that matter.


#153 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 21,392 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 29 September 2010 - 06:47 AM

You were told that specs included the construction diagrams down to component locations, mounts, brackets....down to the very last screw? I find that very hard to believe, especially considering that every manufacturer of every HR has been different inside. That would tell me that there aren’t any construction/assembly diagrams with tolerances and measurements...just the required components and system performance.

Where did you hear the construction, assembly, and mesurement specs were identical?

I have never seen every piece of electronic hardware that was identical. In my usta-be-in-IT days, we ordered 500 Compaq ProLinea desktops. We got them in over a six month period. I can tell you for a fact that, even though they were all the exact same model PCs, the were many differences between them; usually based on where they were made.

It has been my experience that my ship analogy extends to most things big and small.

Mike


OK.

Rich

#154 OFFLINE   CTskydiver

CTskydiver

    Cool Member

  • Registered
  • 15 posts
Joined: Jan 18, 2009

Posted 03 October 2010 - 11:38 AM

Particularly interesting since I've been told by several people that the specs sent to each manufacturer were identical. Send the identical specs to several manufacturers and you should get identical devices. At least in my world.

Rich


More than one way to skin a cat. All Formula 1 cars are built to identical FIA specs; but yet they all look a bit different inside and out, because the specs can't specify EVERYTHING. As long as the DVR's look the same on the outside, and work the same on the inside, DirecTV probably leaves it up to the manufacturers to build them as they see fit.

Oh, or what he said^.

#155 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 21,392 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 03 October 2010 - 11:43 AM

More than one way to skin a cat. All Formula 1 cars are built to identical FIA specs; but yet they all look a bit different inside and out, because the specs can't specify EVERYTHING. As long as the DVR's look the same on the outside, and work the same on the inside, DirecTV probably leaves it up to the manufacturers to build them as they see fit.

Oh, or what he said^.


I really doubt that, but arguing seems futile.

Rich

#156 OFFLINE   bobcamp1

bobcamp1

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 895 posts
Joined: Nov 08, 2007

Posted 04 October 2010 - 09:59 AM

Tivo DOES lock out all other models of external eSATA hard drives except for the official DVR Expander (which sucks, because they are unreliable). If you plug other models in, they don't work. So it isn't hard for D* to do something like that. But that would create logistical nightmares, so they don't do it for the internal drives.

As far as upgrading internal drives, Tivo can definitely tell. Their rules are: it violates the 90 warranty if it already hasn't expired, and you cannot participate in beta/cutting edge programs. Otherwise, they don't care. In fact, they have allowed two companies to redistribute the software so that it is done correctly.

If the units are leased, that violates the lease and D* can charge you full price (i.e. force you to buy it). Just keep the original hard drive and put it back in before you ship the DVR back. They'll never know.

As far as practical advice, make sure the new hard drive doesn't consume more power than the old drive. You don't want to burn out the DVR's internal power supply. A lot of times they are designed with very little margin.

#157 OFFLINE   CBMC

CBMC

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 314 posts
Joined: Oct 07, 2009

Posted 12 October 2010 - 09:39 PM

I know that alot discourage people from opening these. And I am not one of those people, but, I will repeat that the HR24-200 will not allow a "normal sized" hard drive without modifying the hard drive cage. If you are willing to modify the cage and take that risk, then by all means go ahead (I was,and so far, so good), but if you aren't willing to do it then don't bother opening a HR24-200. I know Rick and I both posted this awhile back, but wanted to repost since everyone doesn't have the time to read through every post.

#158 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 21,392 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 13 October 2010 - 09:22 AM

I know that alot discourage people from opening these. And I am not one of those people, but, I will repeat that the HR24-200 will not allow a "normal sized" hard drive without modifying the hard drive cage. If you are willing to modify the cage and take that risk, then by all means go ahead (I was,and so far, so good), but if you aren't willing to do it then don't bother opening a HR24-200. I know Rick and I both posted this awhile back, but wanted to repost since everyone doesn't have the time to read through every post.


Keep in mind that Seagate does sell a Pipeline 1TB HDD that will, I think, fit the sled on the 200. Hopefully, they will produce a 2TB or a 1.5TB (a size that is really all you need with multiple HRs) HDD soon.

Rich

#159 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

Mike Bertelson

    6EQUJ5 WOW!

  • Moderators
  • 13,953 posts
Joined: Jan 24, 2007

Posted 13 October 2010 - 09:31 AM

I really doubt that, but arguing seems futile.

Rich

It is an absolute fact. Especially since every single manufacturers version of a given HR model is different on the inside, and has been since day one. This is rock solid absolute indisputable proof that the internal construction is not specified by DirecTV. This explains why drives fit differently and the connectors have different locations depending on who manufacturers a given HR model.

Unless you're somehow suggesting that DirecTV is unaware that they differ internally in which case I’m wrong about indisputable. :shrug:

Mike

Edited by Mike Bertelson, 15 October 2010 - 07:47 AM.
clarificology

µß
Since it costs 2.4¢ to produce a penny, my 2¢ worth is really 4.8¢ worth.  That 4.8¢ is my own and not the 4.8¢ of DIRECTV, Dish, or anyone else for that matter.


#160 OFFLINE   bigjosh

bigjosh

    New Member

  • Registered
  • 2 posts
Joined: Jan 27, 2008

Posted 02 December 2010 - 11:40 AM

My Weeknees-upgraded HR24 died shortly after recieving it. It would take hours to get past the "Check sat settings" screen, and once booted would quickly crash. Unfortunaly I assumed this was a problem with my connections and so took several months (at 20-30 hours per reboot cycle time goes fast) to finally contact Weekness and missed the 90 day cut-off for repairs.

They suggested trying an external drive and doing a disk scan. Interestingly, the external drive did not solve the problem, which suggests that the HR24 still uses the internal drive for something even if an external drive is connected. This goes against much of what I've read that the external drive will completely cover the internal drive if connected.

So, stuck with an owned useless $400 box that already had the warantee seals busted thanks to Weekness, I had nothing to loose by trying to open it.

Opening it was not hard and the drive was easy to access with just a few creditcards (for the plastic latches) and a torx screwdriver.

You can find some photos of the internals by going to Flickr and searching on "hr24 internals".

Weekness used a WD10EVVS drive. This is one of those "green" drives that use less power and run cooler than normal drives- so it seems like a good choice if it weren't for the failure. I wonder if I was just unluckly or if these drives are less reliable.

Anyway, replaced it with a WD1500 that I happened to have laying around. It fit perfectly with no hassles. When I turned the unit on I saw a quick "Preparing hard drive" message and then it booted normally! A very happy ending to a very long story.

Now that it is working, I love the HR24. Much faster than the HR23.

Just wanted to post here becuase (1) thought some people would like to see the insides of the HR24 just for curiosity, and (2) thought someone might have simlar problems with a very long boots and crashes and not realize it could be easily fixed with an internal drive swap.

-josh




Protected By... spam firewall...And...