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Guest Message by DevFuse

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DECA with HR20-700


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44 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   redram38

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 01:10 PM

I had the install yesterday but the tech did not hook up the internet deca to the router. When he left everything seemed to be working fine. He came back today and did the internet part but now the HR20-700 will not find a signal. What is strange is that without the deca hooked up and the sat line going straight into sat1 I get the signal. He swapped deca's thinking that may be the issue, but it did not help. Anyone else with a HR20-700 seeing problems, and it is strange how the problem started when he hooked the deca to the router. Also without DECA hooked up I get a signal, however some HD channels glitch alot. I also tried hooking the cat6 cable I was using before into the ethernet port and I was able to use MRV without the DECA, but being hooked up the old way on just the one receiver. Maybe the HR20 don't have enough power to power up the deca? Seems strange.

Edited by redram38, 18 May 2010 - 01:16 PM.

Directv with 4 HDDVR's 3 HR24's and one HR21
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#2 OFFLINE   j2fast

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 01:20 PM

If they are HR20-700's then they should power the deca adapters just fine. I have two HR20-700's with the deca adapters connected to the SAT 1 input and the network jack and MRV is working fine. I assume the tech did this but I did have to reboot both of the HR20's after connecting the deca adapters before everything worked correctly.

#3 OFFLINE   redram38

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 01:21 PM

If they are HR20-700's then they should power the deca adapters just fine. I have two HR20-700's with the deca adapters connected to the SAT 1 input and the network jack and MRV is working fine. I assume the tech did this but I did have to reboot both of the HR20's after connecting the deca adapters before everything worked correctly.


It did work ok day one, day 2 is when it lost the signal. Re-booting does not fix it. It never finds the Sat. It will only find the sat signal if the deca is not hooked up.
Directv with 4 HDDVR's 3 HR24's and one HR21
Dish with Hopper/sling, Hopper/sling adapter and 4 joeys
 
Directv for 17 years, Dish for 1 month. Loving the Hopper and Primetime anytime so far.

#4 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 01:25 PM

It did work ok day one, day 2 is when it lost the signal. Re-booting does not fix it. It never finds the Sat. It will only find the sat signal if the deca is not hooked up.

If I understand the HR20-700 hasn't changed.
The only change is connecting the DECA to your router, and this kills the SAT to the HR20.
What does the splitter to DECA router look like? Are all the unused ports on the splitter terminated?
A.K.A VOS

#5 OFFLINE   j2fast

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 01:25 PM

When he added the deca to bridge to your router/internet where in the chain did he add it? As an example here is how mine is laid out:

SWiM LNB
to
SWiM Power Inserter
to
2-way splitter
- One branch of the splitter is the deca adapter that bridges to the net with the PI attached.
- The other branch of the 2-way goes to a 4-splitter that distributes the signal out to my 4 STB's.

#6 OFFLINE   dwcolvin

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 02:00 PM

I had the install yesterday but the tech did not hook up the internet deca to the router. When he left everything seemed to be working fine. He came back today and did the internet part but now the HR20-700 will not find a signal. What is strange is that without the deca hooked up and the sat line going straight into sat1 I get the signal. He swapped deca's thinking that may be the issue, but it did not help. Anyone else with a HR20-700 seeing problems, and it is strange how the problem started when he hooked the deca to the router. Also without DECA hooked up I get a signal, however some HD channels glitch alot. I also tried hooking the cat6 cable I was using before into the ethernet port and I was able to use MRV without the DECA, but being hooked up the old way on just the one receiver. Maybe the HR20 don't have enough power to power up the deca? Seems strange.


Is your signature correct (well, we know it isn't correct because you say hardwired on Gigabit), specifically, do you still only have 4 DVRs and are on a 8 channel SWM of some sort?

You can not directly attach an HR20-700 to a SWM system with any DECAs on it without a DECA adapter (or a Band Stop filter). Its tuner wasn't designed for the relatively high level 500-600 MHz DECA signals. In your case, I might even try a BS filter between the receiver and the DECA, in case the Broadband DECA is close (topologically) and is overwhelming the HR20-700 tuner.

I've read anecdotal reports of 'flakey' HR20-700s (and HR20-100s) that just won't work with DECA.

DIRECTV and NFL-ST since 1994, Slimline w/SL5 LNB, SWiM-16
HR44-700; 2x HR24-500; HR22-100; H25-500; C31-700; GenieGo
Gigabit Ethernet (DirecTV DECA); 2.4 and 5GHz 802.11n; HD Slingbox


#7 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 02:09 PM

You can not directly attach an HR20-700 to a SWM system with any DECAs on it without a DECA adapter (or a Band Stop filter). Its tuner wasn't designed for the relatively high level 500-600 MHz DECA signals. In your case, I might even try a BS filter between the receiver and the DECA, in case the Broadband DECA is close (topologically) and is overwhelming the HR20-700 tuner.

I've read anecdotal reports of 'flakey' HR20-700s (and HR20-100s) that just won't work with DECA.

adding a bandstop filter between a receiver and the DECA on this receiver, simply makes no sense. Any filtering needed is being done by the DECA.
The H20-100 is a problem child, for both connecting the DECA AND for getting it networked without a DECA router bridge.
As for the HR20-700, they haven't been "that flaky".
I'm sure there are a few that may have never been networked and may have problems, but this would only be due to the fact these options haven't ever been used before and has NOTHING to do with the DECA upgrade itself.
Add into this perhaps some techs having not come up to speed with DECA and simply swapping in a HR24 is "the shotgun fix".
A.K.A VOS

#8 OFFLINE   redram38

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 02:14 PM

When he added the deca to bridge to your router/internet where in the chain did he add it? As an example here is how mine is laid out:

SWiM LNB
to
SWiM Power Inserter
to
2-way splitter
- One branch of the splitter is the deca adapter that bridges to the net with the PI attached.
- The other branch of the 2-way goes to a 4-splitter that distributes the signal out to my 4 STB's.


Hmmm as I recall seeing it, (I am back at work) I think all he did was run a coax cable from the dish to the deca that is hooked to the router. I do not recall seeing a splitter but I could be wrong about this. I will look when I get home. He just called and is bringing someone with him tomorrow to check it out again. Again I may be way off in what he did so I will report back later when I get home.
Thx
Directv with 4 HDDVR's 3 HR24's and one HR21
Dish with Hopper/sling, Hopper/sling adapter and 4 joeys
 
Directv for 17 years, Dish for 1 month. Loving the Hopper and Primetime anytime so far.

#9 OFFLINE   dwcolvin

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 02:15 PM

adding a bandstop filter between a receiver and the DECA on this receiver, simply makes no sense. Any filtering needed is being done by the DECA.


What happens when the Broadband DECA turns on makes no sense. If the HR20-700 works with the DECA attached, but the Broadband DECA off, and doesn't work with the Broadband DECA on, and this behavior remains if the DECA is replaced, one might think the Broadband DECA signal is overwhelming the HR20-700 tuner. Inserting a BS filter might work, might not, but can't hurt. It's just another problem determination tool.

#10 OFFLINE   redram38

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 02:16 PM

Is your signature correct (well, we know it isn't correct because you say hardwired on Gigabit), specifically, do you still only have 4 DVRs and are on a 8 channel SWM of some sort?

You can not directly attach an HR20-700 to a SWM system with any DECAs on it without a DECA adapter (or a Band Stop filter). Its tuner wasn't designed for the relatively high level 500-600 MHz DECA signals. In your case, I might even try a BS filter between the receiver and the DECA, in case the Broadband DECA is close (topologically) and is overwhelming the HR20-700 tuner.

I've read anecdotal reports of 'flakey' HR20-700s (and HR20-100s) that just won't work with DECA.


I have 4 DVR's and one HD receiver. He used a SWM 16.
Directv with 4 HDDVR's 3 HR24's and one HR21
Dish with Hopper/sling, Hopper/sling adapter and 4 joeys
 
Directv for 17 years, Dish for 1 month. Loving the Hopper and Primetime anytime so far.

#11 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 02:22 PM

What happens when the Broadband DECA turns on makes no sense. If the HR20-700 works with the DECA attached, but the Broadband DECA off, and doesn't work with the Broadband DECA on, and this behavior remains if the DECA is replaced, one might think the Broadband DECA signal is overwhelming the HR20-700 tuner. Inserting a BS filter might work, might not, but can't hurt. It's just another problem determination tool.


this sounds more like there a signal splitting problem and this is why the SAT signal is getting "killed".
I have a problem doing things that make no sense. "It can't hurt" may be true, but why not figure out where the problem is instead of doing things that frankly have zero effect.
A.K.A VOS

#12 OFFLINE   dwcolvin

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 02:34 PM

this sounds more like there a signal splitting problem and this is why the SAT signal is getting "killed".
I have a problem doing things that make no sense. "It can't hurt" may be true, but why not figure out where the problem is instead of doing things that frankly have zero effect.


But it isn't zero effect. The DECA filters some of the 500-600 MHz signal (as much as the engineers thought needed to be filtered). If you cascade a BSF, it filters more of the 500-600 MHz signal, without bothering the satellite signal in or the DC out.

Something we haven't discussed is, depending on what's happening on the OPs wired network, there could be considerably more noise traffic (e.g., broadcasts) flowing on the DECA cloud, so the DECA is more active. So another PD procedure would be to turn on the Broadband DECA without the Home Network connected and see how the HR20-700 works.

I've done this a couple of times ;)

Edited by dwcolvin, 18 May 2010 - 02:41 PM.


#13 OFFLINE   redram38

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 02:51 PM

But it isn't zero effect. The DECA filters some of the 500-600 MHz signal (as much as the engineers thought needed to be filtered). If you cascade a BSF, it filters more of the 500-600 MHz signal, without bothering the satellite signal in or the DC out.

Something we haven't discussed is, depending on what's happening on the OPs wired network, there could be considerably more noise traffic (e.g., broadcasts) flowing on the DECA cloud, so the DECA is more active. So another PD procedure would be to turn on the Broadband DECA without the Home Network connected and see how the HR20-700 works.

I've done this a couple of times ;)


Not sure what you mean by Broadband DECA, but before he hooked up the line from the dish to the deca and then the ethernet to the router (D-Link 655) the HR20-700 worked ok, or if I unhook the deca from the HR20-700 and just run the sat line in by itself it finds the sat signal, but it still does not seem as strong because I get glitches esp on my local CBS station. I will try and unhook the Deca from the router when I get home and see if that helps. The installer also said their was a new SW download that was supposed to fix some of the issues with the HR20-100 and that may be what is wrong with the 700 as well. I won't do that until it is a lost cause because I don't want to lose the recordings
Directv with 4 HDDVR's 3 HR24's and one HR21
Dish with Hopper/sling, Hopper/sling adapter and 4 joeys
 
Directv for 17 years, Dish for 1 month. Loving the Hopper and Primetime anytime so far.

#14 OFFLINE   lugnutathome

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 02:56 PM

This sounds EXACTLY like the issues I had with my HR20-700s. Vastly different topology as I converted to dual cascaded SWM8 modules with no DECA but you describe the symptoms exactly as I experienced.

Because I had dual SWM8 units I was able to swap lines about and discovered that if the HR20-700s were not on the power path side they worked fine. I did not have this issue with my H21s or HR22(s) or HR23 receivers. Only the HR20-700s.

It's not a shared opinion here but I suspect certain vintage HR20-700s have some SWM and power issues. My installer (a home theater specialist that does DTV commercial site installs) and the Sonora Designs engineer swear they heard this stated by a DTV engineer.

I have 3 HR20-700s (had 4 but swapped one out for an HR22-100) that all work flawlessly on the non power path module and act up exactly as you describe when on the other. (either not get signal and will not boot, or see signal and boot but have frequent random breakups in the picture and sound)

I'd bet another model HR will work fine but that's just me based on my fun and games converting to SWM:grin:

Don "hope I'm wrong and your HR20 can work" Bolton

I had the install yesterday but the tech did not hook up the internet deca to the router. When he left everything seemed to be working fine. He came back today and did the internet part but now the HR20-700 will not find a signal. What is strange is that without the deca hooked up and the sat line going straight into sat1 I get the signal. He swapped deca's thinking that may be the issue, but it did not help. Anyone else with a HR20-700 seeing problems, and it is strange how the problem started when he hooked the deca to the router. Also without DECA hooked up I get a signal, however some HD channels glitch alot. I also tried hooking the cat6 cable I was using before into the ethernet port and I was able to use MRV without the DECA, but being hooked up the old way on just the one receiver. Maybe the HR20 don't have enough power to power up the deca? Seems strange.


What's a dazzling urbanite like you doing in a rustic setting like this?


#15 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 02:56 PM

Not sure what you mean by Broadband DECA, but before he hooked up the line from the dish to the deca and then the ethernet to the router (D-Link 655) the HR20-700 worked ok, or if I unhook the deca from the HR20-700 and just run the sat line in by itself it finds the sat signal, but it still does not seem as strong because I get glitches esp on my local CBS station. I will try and unhook the Deca from the router when I get home and see if that helps. The installer also said their was a new SW download that was supposed to fix some of the issues with the HR20-100 and that may be what is wrong with the 700 as well. I won't do that until it is a lost cause because I don't want to lose the recordings

Your installer has done something wrong upstream that is killing the signal, when he connected the DECA router to the system.
It would really help to have some eyes on what was done.
He simply could have used 1 too many splitters and has dropped the SAT levels too much down at the -700.
A.K.A VOS

#16 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 03:05 PM

This sounds EXACTLY like the issues I had with my HR20-700s. Vastly different...

"Yeah" like I was never involved with that either. :lol:

"What is in common" is this looks like weak/low SWiM signals to the receiver and each receiver will have a slightly different minimum detectable signal level.
This isn't a problem if you keep the levels up, but each "unique" receiver will have a slightly different drop off point.
A.K.A VOS

#17 OFFLINE   lugnutathome

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 03:38 PM

I'll be at a point to test that theory soon as I've got some 4 way and 2 way splitters on order (to replace the 8 ways) although I did experience this from the SWM2 port direct and I was feeling electric current at the wall plate when twisting the coax on/off when on the power path side of the circuit path :eek2:

Oh and when we metered the drops that had the issues they all sat pretty high on the signal levels.

Again VOS thanks for your tireless assistance!

Don "it's either a bad run, a magic spell, or group hallucination:sure:" Bolton

"Yeah" like I was never involved with that either. :lol:

"What is in common" is this looks like weak/low SWiM signals to the receiver and each receiver will have a slightly different minimum detectable signal level.
This isn't a problem if you keep the levels up, but each "unique" receiver will have a slightly different drop off point.


What's a dazzling urbanite like you doing in a rustic setting like this?


#18 OFFLINE   azarby

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 03:48 PM

"Yeah" like I was never involved with that either. :lol:

"What is in common" is this looks like weak/low SWiM signals to the receiver and each receiver will have a slightly different minimum detectable signal level.
This isn't a problem if you keep the levels up, but each "unique" receiver will have a slightly different drop off point.


VOS,

There have been a couple of other posts with similar symptomns and it turned out that the broadband DECA was connected backwards.

#19 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 03:54 PM

VOS,

There have been a couple of other posts with similar symptomns and it turned out that the broadband DECA was connected backwards.

!rolling
Just goes to show you can't idiot proof everything.
Frankly I don't see how someone could do it. The DECA has a female & male [pigtail] making it REALLY HARD to do that.
A.K.A VOS

#20 OFFLINE   redram38

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 04:06 PM

After looking at his set up the deca going into the router has the sat line coming from a 4-way splitter at the dish that goes into the SWM. the coax that would normally go into the receiver sat1 is hooked to a black thing that is plugged into a power outlet. No splitter is anywhere near the router. I unhooked the ethernet from the router and unplugged the deca from the power supply and still no signal is being received by the HR20-700.
Directv with 4 HDDVR's 3 HR24's and one HR21
Dish with Hopper/sling, Hopper/sling adapter and 4 joeys
 
Directv for 17 years, Dish for 1 month. Loving the Hopper and Primetime anytime so far.




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