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Guest Message by DevFuse

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New dish needed?


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32 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 07:39 PM

So, he ended up using 8-way splitters in all 3 places. The unused outputs were terminated, so I don't think I'm losing any significant signal. However, it does seem like a waste.

I'm guessing that this means two are being fed from the first. This is way more loss than you need to have.
I'd have them come back and use "smaller" splitters to gain resistance against rainfade.
The SWM output and the receiver's input levels shouldn't have more than around 25 dB of attenuation and an 8-way to an 8-way eats all of this up and some more, so you've lost all your "system reserve" for weather.
A.K.A VOS

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#22 OFFLINE   hilmar2k

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 07:49 PM

I'm guessing that this means two are being fed from the first. This is way more loss than you need to have.
I'd have them come back and use "smaller" splitters to gain resistance against rainfade.
The SWM output and the receiver's input levels shouldn't have more than around 25 dB of attenuation and an 8-way to an 8-way eats all of this up and some more, so you've lost all your "system reserve" for weather.


Even if the unused ports are terminated? I have an 8 way splitter feeding a 4 way splitter, where 4 are used on the 8 way and 2 on the 4 way. Is it worthwhile to pick up a 2 way to replace the 4 way and use that to replace the 8 way? All unused ports are terminated currently.

#23 OFFLINE   DogLover

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 08:18 PM

I'm guessing that this means two are being fed from the first. This is way more loss than you need to have.
I'd have them come back and use "smaller" splitters to gain resistance against rainfade.
The SWM output and the receiver's input levels shouldn't have more than around 25 dB of attenuation and an 8-way to an 8-way eats all of this up and some more, so you've lost all your "system reserve" for weather.


I figured it wasn't ideal, but it's all he had, and sounded like all he had actually seen. With 103 signals going from 60's to 90's, I probably still will have signal longer in the rain than before. (Looks like I'll get to try that out Friday night.)

Next A/V project is to rearrange the family room. I'll probably wait until then to make changes, as I think that will eliminate the need for 1 of the splitters altogether.
DogLover

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#24 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 08:46 PM

Even if the unused ports are terminated? I have an 8 way splitter feeding a 4 way splitter, where 4 are used on the 8 way and 2 on the 4 way. Is it worthwhile to pick up a 2 way to replace the 4 way and use that to replace the 8 way? All unused ports are terminated currently.

Terminations are merely sending the RF into a resistor so it doesn't reflect back as cause issues.
Skywalker lists their loss specs and for 1750 MHz [about the highest for SWM]:
2-way 4.8 dB
4-way 9.5 dB
8-way 14.0 dB

So two 8-ways = -28 dB without cable losses.
This is the worst case and other frequencies would be less and even one splitter to the next might be less.
"A good rule of thumb" is to never use a splitter with more outputs than you need. Better to use a mix of 2 & 4 ways to meet your needs since every termination used is "wasting power" and a splitter with more outputs has more loss.
A.K.A VOS

#25 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 08:50 PM

I figured it wasn't ideal, but it's all he had, and sounded like all he had actually seen. With 103 signals going from 60's to 90's, I probably still will have signal longer in the rain than before. (Looks like I'll get to try that out Friday night.)

Next A/V project is to rearrange the family room. I'll probably wait until then to make changes, as I think that will eliminate the need for 1 of the splitters altogether.

First: it working now and that's good.
Second: it would be better to get away from 8-ways to 8-ways as I posted ^.
"The best use" of an 8-way is one that has all the receivers connected to it.
A.K.A VOS

#26 OFFLINE   RobertE

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 08:56 PM

I'm guessing that this means two are being fed from the first. This is way more loss than you need to have.
I'd have them come back and use "smaller" splitters to gain resistance against rainfade.
The SWM output and the receiver's input levels shouldn't have more than around 25 dB of attenuation and an 8-way to an 8-way eats all of this up and some more, so you've lost all your "system reserve" for weather.


Unfortunately, some out there still think that in order to have 5 to 8 TUNERs you need an 8 way splitter. This goes from installers, to stupidvisors to trainers (oxymoron).

Sometimes, you just can't fix stupid. :nono2:
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#27 OFFLINE   DogLover

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 09:01 PM

First: it working now and that's good.
Second: it would be better to get away from 8-ways to 8-ways as I posted ^.
"The best use" of an 8-way is one that has all the receivers connected to it.


Yeah, I may be put the non-green label 2 and 4 ways back on. I've got a busy few weeks, so I'll at least get to see how well (or poorly) this set up works.
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#28 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 09:03 PM

Unfortunately, some out there still think that in order to have 5 to 8 TUNERs you need an 8 way splitter. This goes from installers, to stupidvisors to trainers (oxymoron).

Sometimes, you just can't fix stupid. :nono2:

Yeah, I went through this with the trainer who came out here with the engineers a while back. He saw my Skywalkers and offered/wanted to swap them out for "DirecTV approved" ones, but only had 8-ways with him.
A five min discussion between me, the trainer, engineer and my skywalkers stayed for "a good reason" and the trainer hopefully learned something.
A.K.A VOS

#29 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 09:09 PM

Yeah, I may be put the non-green label 2 and 4 ways back on. I've got a busy few weeks, so I'll at least get to see how well (or poorly) this set up works.

FYI: the 90% readings are more quality than RF level.
As the signal at the LNB drops, the SWiM will add gain to keep the output @ -30 dBm. when the input drops below -45 dBm, then the SWiM is out of gain and the outputs starts dropping. The receiver wants -54 dBm, so the less loss between the SWiM and the receiver, the longer the receiver will have a usable input signal.
I would care more about this than whether my splitter had a green label [DECA approved] or white label [SWiM approved].
A.K.A VOS

#30 OFFLINE   tsbrady1

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 06:27 AM

I'm in Snellville and scheduled for this evening. (Twiddling my thumbs right now.) I'll let you know how it goes.


DogLover, how long did your install take? Did they have to replace your dish?

#31 OFFLINE   DogLover

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 06:50 AM

DogLover, how long did your install take? Did they have to replace your dish?


The did replace the LNB with a SL3, but not the dish itself. He removed the old SWM-8, added the DECA modules to the non-24 boxes, then realigned the dish to get great signals on all satellites. It took about 2 hours, maybe a little longer.
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#32 OFFLINE   tsbrady1

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 07:22 AM

Thanks, hope mine goes as smoothly tomorrow!

#33 OFFLINE   DogLover

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 07:36 AM

Good Luck!
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