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Unapproved DECA to switch setup?


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38 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   -Draino-

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 12:46 PM

If you're adventurous and one of your CAT5-attached receivers is near your router or a switch with an extra connection, put the DECA in line with the receiver coax connection (which simultaneously powers the DECA and is a Band Stop filter), then plug the Ethernet cable from the DECA into the router/switch (leave the receiver connected to the router/switch). Voilla! Internet connection with no additional splitter, power supply or Band Stop filter. Yes, I've done this, it works, but as always, YMMV. Note that the bridge will go down briefly when the receiver reboots.

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Seems very clean. Is this method approved? Are there any issues with connecting this way?

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#2 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 01:29 PM

Seems very clean. Is this method approved? Are there any issues with connecting this way?

"Approved" ? NO.
Could it work? yes
A.K.A VOS

#3 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 02:33 PM

Seems very clean. Is this method approved? Are there any issues with connecting this way?

My problem with what's pictured is that the HR is not in the DECA cloud when connected directly to the LAN switch. Ya, it will work as an MRV client/server, but at least on paper, it's not an optimal configuration.

Edited by Steve, 19 May 2010 - 02:51 PM.

/steve

#4 OFFLINE   -Draino-

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 02:34 PM

"Approved" ? NO.
Could it work? yes



Ok so it's not approved.....any reason??? It seems so simple and clean there must be some reason why they would not approve this?

I'm thinking of using this setup but I don't want to ruin a new receiver or damage the DECA unit

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#5 OFFLINE   jpitlick

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 02:41 PM

Ok so it's not approved.....any reason??? It seems so simple and clean there must be some reason why they would not approve this?

I'm thinking of using this setup but I don't want to ruin a new receiver or damage the DECA unit


You're not going to ruin anything. You just won't officially have the best performance.

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#6 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 02:50 PM

Ok so it's not approved.....any reason??? [...]

See my post above for why I think it's not optimal.
/steve

#7 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 02:54 PM

Ok so it's not approved.....any reason???

The "simple answer" is you're adding in "crap" that isn't part of the DirecTV service/install/connected home networking.
Why do something they don't support?

Yes many will modify what DirecTV does for their own reasons/needs, but understand it will all be "on you" to sort out any problems that may arise.
A.K.A VOS

#8 OFFLINE   dwcolvin

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 02:57 PM

My problem with what's pictured is that the HR is not in the DECA cloud when connected directly to the LAN switch. Ya, it will work as an MRV client/server, but at least on paper, it's not an optimal configuration.


!rolling

The 'DECA cloud' is plugged in to the same Ethernet switch as the HR. There is no network delay (and infinitessimal switching delay) between the 'DECA cloud' and the 100 Mbps RJ45 input on the HR. Now, I can see how Hx24s could achieve greater than 100 Mbps FDX on the 'DECA cloud', but as long as you're using DECA adapters, you're limited to 100 Mbps Ethernet (since that's how the DECA adapter connects to the HR).

D* wouldn't suggest this because there's no requirement to have a receiver near an Ethernet connection (that's the whole point of DECA). If you do, this works.

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#9 OFFLINE   Herdfan

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 03:01 PM

Doesn't this change the receiver from being on the DECA cloud to the same as being on a LAN?

#10 OFFLINE   Beerstalker

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 03:02 PM

The only problem I could see happening with this setup would be if the other 2 devices plugged into this switch also tried sending info over the DECA cloud at the same time as the HD-DVR.

If that doesn't happen I don't see this causing any issues as the DECA connection to the HD-DVR is already limited to 100Mbps (assuming that switch is 100Mbps, and not an old 10Mbps switch).

#11 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 03:07 PM

Doesn't this change the receiver from being on the DECA cloud to the same as being on a LAN?

Yup.

!rolling

The 'DECA cloud' is plugged in to the same Ethernet switch as the HR. There is no network delay (and infinitessimal switching delay) between the 'DECA cloud' and the 100 Mbps RJ45 input on the HR. Now, I can see how Hx24s could achieve greater than 100 Mbps FDX on the 'DECA cloud', but as long as you're using DECA adapters, you're limited to 100 Mbps Ethernet (since that's how the DECA adapter connects to the HR).

You can laugh all you want, but you've created a hybrid CAT5/DECA MRV network here that denies that HR any MRV QOS benefits that DECA may provide it. Whether or not you think that's important is up to you and has been the subject of 2-3 threads on DECA vs. CAT5, so let's not get into it here.

Simply put, in practice this may work, but in theory, it's not the way DirecTV intended DECA to be implemented.

Edited by Steve, 19 May 2010 - 03:12 PM.

/steve

#12 OFFLINE   -Draino-

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 03:09 PM

The "simple answer" is you're adding in "crap" that isn't part of the DirecTV service/install/connected home networking.
Why do something they don't support?

Yes many will modify what DirecTV does for their own reasons/needs, but understand it will all be "on you" to sort out any problems that may arise.



I'm the type that loves to have "optimal" performance. When there is a proven method to achieve that, I'm all for it.

VOS you say I won't get that by "adding in crap" I'm not sure I understand that. The OP of the picture says that we are actually getting rid of crap "with no additional splitter, power supply or Band Stop filter"

Just seems like getting rid of a splitter alone would allow for a cleaner signal.

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#13 OFFLINE   dwcolvin

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 03:22 PM

Yup.

You can laugh all you want, but you're created a hybrid CAT5/DECA MRV network here that denies that HR any MRV QOS benefits that DECA may provide it. Whether or not you think that's important is up to you and has been the subject of 2-3 threads on DECA vs. CAT5, so let's not get into it here.

Simply put, in practice this may work, but in theory, it's not the way DirecTV intended DECA to be implemented.


Yes, I know, I created a hybrid CAT5/DECA MRV network, that was my goal. As part of the Beta (and before ;)) I had already connected all the HRs to Gigabit switches. All I really needed from DECA was to connect a receiver that didn't have Ethernet wiring.

Since I now have some DECA-capable receivers, they're all on the 'DECA cloud'. The other 2 HRs are on Gigabit Ethernet. There's no perceptable difference in performance, one way or another.

"Simply put, in practice this may work, but in theory, it's not the way DirecTV intended DECA to be implemented." I couldn't agree more.
But it's not any more unsupported than just using Ethernet would be. :D

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#14 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 03:22 PM

VOS you say I won't get that by "adding in crap" I'm not sure I understand that. The OP of the picture says that we are actually getting rid of crap "with no additional splitter, power supply or Band Stop filter"

Just seems like getting rid of a splitter alone would allow for a cleaner signal.

Remember you're not seeing the whole system picture.
"Crap" is the addition of other traffic though one DECA.
Splitter & bandstop filter [count] isn't any different.
Well maybe there might be one more splitter somewhere for the DECA to router bridge and a small PI for it, but this doesn't need to be near the receiver.
Bandstop filter count/need doesn't change AT ALL.

"So" adding in a switch one place that could reduce the DECA performance is "cleaner" than having another DECA close to your router and a PI to power it in another place?
A.K.A VOS

#15 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 03:24 PM

"Simply put, in practice this may work, but in theory, it's not the way DirecTV intended DECA to be implemented." I couldn't agree more.
But it's not any more unsupported than just using Ethernet would be. :D

BINGO!

We have the winner here.
A.K.A VOS

#16 OFFLINE   dwcolvin

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 03:29 PM

The only problem I could see happening with this setup would be if the other 2 devices plugged into this switch also tried sending info over the DECA cloud at the same time as the HD-DVR.

If that doesn't happen I don't see this causing any issues as the DECA connection to the HD-DVR is already limited to 100Mbps (assuming that switch is 100Mbps, and not an old 10Mbps switch).


The three devices are 1) the Home Network; 2) the HR; 3) the 'DECA cloud'

It's a Gigabit switch.

#17 OFFLINE   Beerstalker

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 03:53 PM

In that case I really don't see this causing any issues at all. In essence you are just using one DECA module as both the DECA for the receiver, and the broadband DECA. When using MRV the receiver shouldn't even notice that it is going through the switch, it should just go from the receiver to the DECA adapter and out to the other receivers. When using Media Share or On Demand the receiver won't even realize it is on DECA and it will just talk directly to your router.

At least that is how I understand it would work. I don't think the receiver would keep looking at your home network when it is trying to talk to the other devices. I also don't see why anything on your home network would ever cross into the DECA cloud either unless you were trying to use MediaShare/On Demand.

#18 OFFLINE   Grentz

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 04:24 PM

I don't know why this has to be an argument at all.

Yes, it should work fine. Yes, it is unsupported.

You are free to set it up like that, just if you have ANY problems with MRV or network related applications on your DVR you should be expected to take this hybrid portion out of the mix (easy enough to do) to get support from DirecTV or us for that matter. Networking can bey very simple, but VERY complex as well. It is dumbed down in a home environment, but just one device can mess things up majorly and be hard to track down.
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#19 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 04:28 PM

[...] In essence you are just using one DECA module as both the DECA for the receiver, and the broadband DECA [...]

Just to be clear, as configured, that module is only being used as the broadband DECA. The pictured receiver is connected CAT5 to the LAN switch.
/steve

#20 OFFLINE   dvdmth

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 04:38 PM

In our case, the installer who did the MRV upgrade didn't provide a network DECA, so we picked up a 10/100 switch and stuck it between the basement HR21 and the DECA (there was already a cat5 connection available there). Nothing else is on that switch. I've done some MRV testing with all three DVR's (an HR24 with built-in DECA, an HR22 with "proper" DECA install, and the HR21 with the 10/100 switch between it and the DECA). The only difference I could notice was that playback started a little faster if the HR24 was the server (most likely due to the faster processor in that unit). There was no discernible difference whatsoever between the HR22 and HR21, so the 10/100 switch has no apparent effect on performance in our setup.

#21 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 06:25 PM

In our case, the installer who did the MRV upgrade didn't provide a network DECA, so we picked up a 10/100 switch and stuck it between the basement HR21 and the DECA (there was already a cat5 connection available there). Nothing else is on that switch. I've done some MRV testing with all three DVR's (an HR24 with built-in DECA, an HR22 with "proper" DECA install, and the HR21 with the 10/100 switch between it and the DECA). The only difference I could notice was that playback started a little faster if the HR24 was the server (most likely due to the faster processor in that unit). There was no discernible difference whatsoever between the HR22 and HR21, so the 10/100 switch has no apparent effect on performance in our setup.

In your case the installer should have added the DECA to router bridge, since it was part of your upgrade.
A.K.A VOS

#22 OFFLINE   dennisj00

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 06:35 PM

Somebody needs to explain to me and the others what additional / spurious network traffic this is imposing / causing on the DECA cloud. It actually looks like a good way to avoid one more Deca adapter and power supply for the broadband interconnect.

I may try it depending on the results of my installation tomorrow and report back.

(No conclusions in advance, but I'd bet there's no appreciable difference - it's a 100MB or GB switch.)

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#23 OFFLINE   dennisj00

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 06:42 PM

One more thing (without going against the grain here), from reading the terribly long threads about the DECA / MRV threads, 'unsupported' seems to mean something between what the installers haven't done / don't know / or WE (people here) haven't provided the training / pictures / work arounds for them.

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#24 OFFLINE   RobertE

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 09:10 PM

One more thing (without going against the grain here), from reading the terribly long threads about the DECA / MRV threads, 'unsupported' seems to mean something between what the installers haven't done / don't know / or WE (people here) haven't provided the training / pictures / work arounds for them.


That means, if the installer was to show up and see this bastardization of a setup, be prepared for him to say "Not my problem to fix" and leave.
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#25 OFFLINE   Go Beavs

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 09:43 PM

Somebody needs to explain to me and the others what additional / spurious network traffic this is imposing / causing on the DECA cloud. It actually looks like a good way to avoid one more Deca adapter and power supply for the broadband interconnect.

I may try it depending on the results of my installation tomorrow and report back.

(No conclusions in advance, but I'd bet there's no appreciable difference - it's a 100MB or GB switch.)


I just got my DECA units today from Solid Signal. I set mine up in this manner to avoid just that... having to purchase another adapter and PI just to get the internet on the cloud.

My HR22 is on the 'cloud' and my HR21 is on a gig switch that has the 2nd DECA adapter on it.

So far so good, no problems and it's a huge improvement over my wireless 'N' hybrid setup.

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