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Questions on Whole House DVR upgrade


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22 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   kymikes

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 11:45 PM

I have an upgrade scheduled for Friday but still have a couple of questions that I haven't seen answered (but I might have missed it in the deluge).

I have a current system with 2 HR21-700's and 2 H21's (1 -100 & 1 -200) so everything appears SWiM & DECA compatible. I currently have the 4 RG6 lines coming from the dish to a x8 powered multiswitch with 2 RG6 coax to each box (all homerun) and a cat 5e to each of the 4 boxes (also have a 3rd RG6 coax to a couple locations to provide OTA to a couple AM21's but this is separate and should remain separate). I have MRV running on the beta with manually assigned IP addresses and have selected and 'passed' the ports through my router for network services (if it gets used for something sooner or later).

My questions. I assume that the LNB on my dish will be replaced with a SWiM LNB since this will provide the support for the six tuners needed. I also assume that they will probably then functionally replace the multiswitch with an 8 way splitter (don't think there is a x6) and use one of coax lines to a DECA at each unit (2 DVR & 2 receiver). Please correct any errors in my assumptions.

Questions:
1. Does this configuration require 1 PI or 2? I see many comments that a PI is needed for SWiM and DECA. If the answer is 2, what location restrictions are there on the PI for SWiM? I believe that the PI for DECA would be handled by the 5th DECA that would be used to connect the DECA cloud to my network (this would be most convenient in my layout).

2. What has to be changed in the IP address assignment and port assignment and port passing for Network Services? Does the DECA cloud do a DHCP like assignment for communications with it's own subnet or will it use the manually assigned addresses currently used in each DVR/receiver?

Fortunately, I won't get into the SWiM 16 availibility problems or the HR20 quirks but, after reading some of the installation descriptions, I feel a need to understand the installation requirements better than the typical installers to try to keep my blood pressure down.

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

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#2 OFFLINE   Grentz

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 12:32 AM

Your assumptions all sound right. As far as your questions...

1) 2. One for the SWiM and one for the DECA that is bridging to your network. The SWiM PI can be anywhere from the back of one of the receivers to where the line goes out to the dish. Just whatever works. If it is after the splitter (not between the splitter and the SWiM), make sure to put it on the power passing port on the splitter.

2) Nothing, just leave it all the same. DECA is the connection medium, but does not do any DHCP or any separation from your network. If you leave all the static assignments as they are and the forwarded ports the same, it should all continue to work just fine. The receivers will still just act as if they were connected as before.
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#3 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 12:34 AM

Questions:
1. Does this configuration require 1 PI or 2? I see many comments that a PI is needed for SWiM and DECA. If the answer is 2, what location restrictions are there on the PI for SWiM? I believe that the PI for DECA would be handled by the 5th DECA that would be used to connect the DECA cloud to my network (this would be most convenient in my layout).

2. What has to be changed in the IP address assignment and port assignment and port passing for Network Services? Does the DECA cloud do a DHCP like assignment for communications with it's own subnet or will it use the manually assigned addresses currently used in each DVR/receiver?

Any help will be greatly appreciated!


  • One for the SWiM anywhere & one for the DECA to router on the DECA.
  • Nothing changes since the DECA cloud is basically invisible to the network.

A.K.A VOS

#4 OFFLINE   vetrev

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 12:39 AM

I guess my first thought is why do you want to go to SWM and DECA? If you've already gone through the effort of running two coaxial lines to each receiver along with internet cables, what would you really gain?

DECA and SWM together do exactly the same thing your setup does except on one line. That's the real advantage. Note that there are procedures on this forum for signing up for the Whole Home DVR Service without getting the equipment (just using an existing wired network). I personally had DECA installed because two receivers/DVRs were connected to the network via powerline adapters and two DVRs with wireless N game adapters. But my HD MRV video was not good. It stuttered more than it played.

Regarding your questions: My SWiM power injector is in the basement next to my SWM 16, between that and the 8-way splitter. My DECA power injector is in the same room as my cable modem (my office). My IP addresses are the same as I had before in my previous setup. It seems that DECA used them without a problem. :)

#5 OFFLINE   dminches

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 06:05 AM

The SWiM PI can be anywhere from the back of one of the receivers to where the line goes out to the dish. Just whatever works. If it is after the splitter (not between the splitter and the SWiM), make sure to put it on the power passing port on the splitter.


Can you explain what you mean? Aren't all outputs of the splitter the same?

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#6 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 06:59 AM

Can you explain what you mean? Aren't all outputs of the splitter the same?

You need to look at the splitter, because some are power [DC] passing only on one leg, which is where the PI needs to go.
A.K.A VOS

#7 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 08:58 AM

Your assumptions all sound right. As far as your questions...

1) 2. One for the SWiM and one for the DECA that is bridging to your network. The SWiM PI can be anywhere from the back of one of the receivers to where the line goes out to the dish. Just whatever works. If it is after the splitter (not between the splitter and the SWiM), make sure to put it on the power passing port on the splitter.

2) Nothing, just leave it all the same. DECA is the connection medium, but does not do any DHCP or any separation from your network. If you leave all the static assignments as they are and the forwarded ports the same, it should all continue to work just fine. The receivers will still just act as if they were connected as before.


As long as they put in a DECA to reconnect you to the network. I lost Internet capability after my install, so had to reset the IP settings to get 169 addresses.

#8 OFFLINE   kymikes

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 09:04 AM

  • One for the SWiM anywhere & one for the DECA to router on the DECA.
  • Nothing changes since the DECA cloud is basically invisible to the network.


Thanks to everyone for the quick responses. VOS, just to restate for my understanding - In my anticipated configuration, I would have one RG6 from the SWiM LNB to the splitter (taking the multiswitch out). I would want to install one PI at the splitter (convenient since my multiswitch is powered) and insure this PI is on the splitter output that is DC passing. The second PI would attach to coax output of the DECA module used bridge the network cloud to my home network. Since the network bridge DECA module also needs to connect to the SWiM splitter, I would have 4 outputs of the splitter going to the 4 units (2 DVR & 2 Recievers), 1 output of the splitter (DC passing) going to the SWiM PI and another output of the splitter going to the DECA module that is bridging the cloud to the home network and has the second PI. Are these PI's (SWiM vs. DECA) different or do I just need two at different points in the electrical topology? Since I am on 0x3de firmware, my software should be OK.

Thanks again.

#9 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 09:11 AM

Are these PI's (SWiM vs. DECA) different or do I just need two at different points in the electrical topology? Since I am on 0x3de firmware, my software should be OK.

Thanks again.

They could be the same type or different.
The DECA PI can be either the smaller 18 volt PI, or the 21 volt PI used with the SWiMLNB install.
If you look at the images thread at the top here, there are photos of each.
A.K.A VOS

#10 OFFLINE   kymikes

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 09:11 AM

I guess my first thought is why do you want to go to SWM and DECA? If you've already gone through the effort of running two coaxial lines to each receiver along with internet cables, what would you really gain?

DECA and SWM together do exactly the same thing your setup does except on one line. That's the real advantage. Note that there are procedures on this forum for signing up for the Whole Home DVR Service without getting the equipment (just using an existing wired network). I personally had DECA installed because two receivers/DVRs were connected to the network via powerline adapters and two DVRs with wireless N game adapters. But my HD MRV video was not good. It stuttered more than it played.

Regarding your questions: My SWiM power injector is in the basement next to my SWM 16, between that and the 8-way splitter. My DECA power injector is in the same room as my cable modem (my office). My IP addresses are the same as I had before in my previous setup. It seems that DECA used them without a problem. :)


I pondered that question quite a bit. An earlier post from Doug convinced me that this would be worthwhile to guard against subsequent feature/function that would require SWiM/DECA and to insure that any DVR/receiver replacements in the future would be later level. Also this 'upgrade' gets the work don'e at a known price that could be higher if I did it a later point in time. My wired MRV performance had been great so this was not a factor. Thanks for your feedback.

#11 OFFLINE   kymikes

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 09:15 AM

They could be the same type or different.
The DECA PI can be either the smaller 18 volt PI, or the 21 volt PI used with the SWiMLNB install.
If you look at the images thread at the top here, there are photos of each.


Thanks. So they are functional the same but come in two different flavors (guessing the 21 volt PI may be needed for the higher load units like the SWiM16 but this would not be an issue in my installation).

#12 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 09:18 AM

Thanks. So they are functional the same but come in two different flavors (guessing the 21 volt PI may be needed for the higher load units like the SWiM16 but this would not be an issue in my installation).

Three flavors:
18 volt - DECA
21 volt - SWiM LNB
28/9 volt - SWiM 8 & SWiM-16

The SWiM LNB can use the 28/9 volt.
The DECA can use the 21 volt.
The DECA SHOULD NOT use the 28/9 volt & the SWiM8 & 16 should NOT use the 21 volt.
A.K.A VOS

#13 OFFLINE   kymikes

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 09:21 AM

As long as they put in a DECA to reconnect you to the network. I lost Internet capability after my install, so had to reset the IP settings to get 169 addresses.


Yes, I double checked the work order confirmation to ensure internet connection was shown. My thought process is to ensure that the installer shows up with 5 DECA modules, 2 PI's, the splitter, SWiM LNB, etc. so that the installation is quick and easy and so I don't get any functional issues since it was all working before the 'upgrade'. If not, I'll have him come back when he has everything he needs.

Edited by kymikes, 20 May 2010 - 09:23 AM.
typo


#14 OFFLINE   kymikes

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 09:22 AM

Three flavors:
18 volt - DECA
21 volt - SWiM LNB
28/9 volt - SWiM 8 & SWiM-16

The SWiM LNB can use the 28/9 volt.
The DECA can use the 21 volt.
The DECA SHOULD NOT use the 28/9 volt & the SWiM8 & 16 should NOT use the 21 volt.


Got it! Many thanks again for all your help.

#15 OFFLINE   dwcolvin

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 10:17 AM

Three flavors:
18 volt - DECA
21 volt - SWiM LNB
28/9 volt - SWiM 8 & SWiM-16

The SWiM LNB can use the 28/9 volt.
The DECA can use the 21 volt.
The DECA SHOULD NOT use the 28/9 volt & the SWiM8 & 16 should NOT use the 21 volt.


http://forums.direct...2010-051210.pdf on page 2 says (probably incorrectly) that you can use a 29V on a DECA... :eek2:

#16 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 10:25 AM

http://forums.direct...2010-051210.pdf on page 2 says (probably incorrectly) that you can use a 29V on a DECA... :eek2:

I would NEVER use.
Maybe "you can". :lol:
A.K.A VOS

#17 OFFLINE   Grentz

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 10:28 AM

As long as they put in a DECA to reconnect you to the network. I lost Internet capability after my install, so had to reset the IP settings to get 169 addresses.


Though if you have static addresses it should still work. If you were DHCP before your situation would arise.
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#18 OFFLINE   dwcolvin

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 10:28 AM

I would NEVER use.
Maybe "you can". :lol:


Not me! :nono2:

#19 OFFLINE   dwcolvin

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 10:38 AM

The most interesting part of that document is, "Always use the SWiM meter to test the cable run – the SWiM meter is the blue meter."

Yeah, right :lol:

#20 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 10:40 AM

The most interesting part of that document is, "Always use the SWiM meter to test the cable run – the SWiM meter is the blue meter."

Yeah, right :lol:

Mine is blue. :confused:
A.K.A VOS




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