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CSR's now saying "Staying on Ethernet is Illegal"


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#26 OFFLINE   Carl Spock

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 05:39 AM

Back when I was a young buck salesman, Mrmiami, I'd make up stories on the sales floor. It wasn't to please my bosses or make points. It wasn't even to make the sale. I lied because I thought it made me sound smarter than I really was.

I think your CSR, Chris, is going through a similar period. Hopefully, soon he, too, will realize he doesn't need to tell stories to sound smart. It's enough to just tell the truth.
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#27 OFFLINE   BudShark

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 05:41 AM

No, not yet b/c I was going this way anyhow but if they fail to get the 3 24-500's I've requested (which I'm almost 100% sure they will fail) then I'll be sending the email for the time being. I do want to go the supported route though at some point but if I'm going to go all new system then it's going to be all in or nothing from them for now. I'm sure the email way will work I just didn't want the interruption in use but it'll be what it is.


Well this is a completely different question and maybe some background is needed.

"Requesting" specific receivers is not an option. An HR20/21/22/23/24 are equal in the eyes of DirecTV in terms of their support for MRV. The only difference being whether you need a DECA at the device. I'm guessing you won't get 3 24s, and its not because they failed, its because thats not their policy.

#28 OFFLINE   Mrmiami

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 05:49 AM

yes, external to the house there is no difference between deca and ethernet.


Yea, I knew he was talking out his lower region especially when I restated the fact that they are going to use the same router I'm using now to complete the internet connection that I am now currently using and I didn't see how that was in anyway different at saving bandwidth when the end result is channeled though the same way. Three receivers going out my router with my other 2 computers, his response, "well yea but that is the preferred way and the only option they offer anyone else who is doing it any other way is doing so illegally" I think I may of laughed at him again at that point but since I wanted to go that way anyhow I went forward with the change over......he just had to work much harder at getting to the inevitable ending for me.

#29 OFFLINE   David MacLeod

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 05:58 AM

deca has a lot of good selling points on its own (especially since you wanted it anyway) w/o any embellishment, just irks me when people do this to customers.
factor in the point that they gave everyone 7 days to get converted to deca with not enough training or supplies and you see what a mess this turned out to be...
ah well, I'm done complaining now :)

glad you seem to have gotten everything worked out and hope your install goes well.
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#30 OFFLINE   dwcolvin

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 06:00 AM

In short, during the Beta testing using ethernet only setups it really was taxing and eating up D* service and servers and staying on that type of network is leaching off of D* service and sucking it dry. I don't know all the fine details on this and hopefully someone here in the know can better explain this viewpoint from DirecTV's perspective but if that is their opinion now I would fully expect them to eliminate that method at somepoint down the line.

I'd appreciate any input from anyone that has the credentials to dispute this claim or at the very least explain why some are being allowed to stay with the Leaching method as opposed to the Legal D* perferred method, BTW those are both (leaching/legal)their terminology not mine.

Please don't just come in here writing I been fed hook,line and sinker and been fed the bait, I suspect that in part that is true but remember, I already knew I was going DECA way before the call. I'm just trying to find out what the long term implications will be and why they seem to be throwing all the Beta testers a changeup now (if any truth to this mindset) and why were not being forewarned about this strongly?


!rolling

The only thing taxing to D* was trying to explain to clueless folks how to connect Ethernet, and why wireless really didn't work.

They knew well before the MRV Beta that variations in customer networks and knowhow made supporting Home Networks virtually impossible. And they needed a system Techs could install. They simply jumped on the MOCA bandwagon with a litte tweak and... DECA.

All DECA is is a different way to transport IP packets. Same packets as Ethernet, same number of packets as Ethernet. And with MRV, none of them leave the customer's home. DECA bypasses vagaries in customer networks, limits contention for bandwidth with other home IP traffic, and potentially impliments QOS priority that may be lacking in home networks.

DECA still ultimately attaches to the customer's Ethernet network. Any IP traffic that flowed to D* with Ethernet still flows with DECA. They can't eliminate Ethernet, because they can't tell it's there. There is no difference between the 'u' flag for Ethernet users, and the same flag for self-installed DECA users (such as the DECA Beta testers).

Now, they will only install SWiM/DECA (and even that doesn't always work), and new installs will already be DECA-capable so will have no need to go the unsupported route.

So yeah, the CSR fed you a line of BS. :lol:

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#31 OFFLINE   joed32

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 06:08 AM

Mine was activated last week and went off yesterday. I called a CSR and got into a heated argument with him. He said now that beta is over home networks won't work anymore. I told him to try and he said he did but it won't work. After we hung up it came back on and is now "Authorized" again.

I did order DECA twice and both time the work order did not have SWM on it so no install possible. I'll try again someday. In the mean time MRV is fine.

#32 OFFLINE   leww37334

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 06:20 AM

per CSR:
total DECA cost

equipment $162. mrv $3/month ( more when they force you to change packages, yes it happened to me) extends commitment to two years (NOT one, asked three times to make sure))
“Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.” - Ayn Rand

#33 OFFLINE   oldengineer

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 07:09 AM

per CSR:
total DECA cost

equipment $162. mrv $3/month ( more when they force you to change packages, yes it happened to me) extends commitment to two years (NOT one, asked three times to make sure))


I had to switch packages to split Choice Extra, HD and DVR service to use MRV/DECA. The switch and installation did NOT extend my commitment. You should fight this.

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#34 OFFLINE   paragon

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 07:35 AM

per CSR:
total DECA cost

equipment $162. mrv $3/month ( more when they force you to change packages, yes it happened to me) extends commitment to two years (NOT one, asked three times to make sure))


I had to switch packages to split Choice Extra, HD and DVR service to use MRV/DECA. The switch and installation did NOT extend my commitment. You should fight this.


I did NOT have to switch packages (I still have PLUS HD DVR bundled and MRV is working after the beta shutoff) and I did NOT have my commitment extended.

#35 OFFLINE   kokishin

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 08:05 AM

When I get a CSR who is clueless (more times than not), I ask to speak to their supervisor. If the supervisor is clueless, then I say good bye and call back again. I would NEVER spend one hour on the phone with a clueless CSR. I estimate you have a 1 in 3 chance of getting a knowledgable CSR.


I had planned to go the DECA way anyway when I was prepared to spend the additional money for an all new componets system so I called to investigate the possible cost's but said for now, I was going to stay with the current "Unsupported" Ethernet setup I already had. I just think it would be a wiser choice to go with a setup that D* backs as opposed to staying in a channel that is not supported in any way by D* but what I was told is That is/was not an option. Now I am not naive about the fact that this whole MRV thing is yet another grab/hook for additional money grabbing with the swapping out of boxes,charges for adapters and hookup fees so I took what my CSR (Chris) was telling me with a grain of salt knowing full well his job is really to sell not just flip switches and change account information. However, when he was explaining how and why D* was viewing staying on Ethernet only setup was considered illegle he certainly raised some very valid points about why it was allowed in Beta form and why they want to go in DECA form direction. I wont go into all the details that were explained in GREAT detail to me over the phone (conversation took over an hour) but it raised concern for me in terms of others that are staying pat with ethernet only and perhaps not aware of D* view on this and the implications for them down the line.

No, I'm not saying the D* Police are going to show up at your door to take you and all your "illegal" equipment away in fact, I actually chuckled out loud to Chris when he used that term because I'm pretty sure if I pressed him to show me this documentation of Illegality in writing that it would never come to fruition but is did solidify my decision to go with the DECA if standing pat meant I'd eventually be left in the dark as far as MRV was concered and I'd be doing this anyway down the road.

In short, during the Beta testing using ethernet only setups it really was taxing and eating up D* service and servers and staying on that type of network is leaching off of D* service and sucking it dry. I don't know all the fine details on this and hopefully someone here in the know can better explain this viewpoint from DirecTV's perspective but if that is their opinion now I would fully expect them to eliminate that method at somepoint down the line.

I'd appreciate any input from anyone that has the credentials to dispute this claim or at the very least explain why some are being allowed to stay with the Leaching method as opposed to the Legal D* perferred method, BTW those are both (leaching/legal)their terminology not mine.

Please don't just come in here writing I been fed hook,line and sinker and been fed the bait, I suspect that in part that is true but remember, I already knew I was going DECA way before the call. I'm just trying to find out what the long term implications will be and why they seem to be throwing all the Beta testers a changeup now (if any truth to this mindset) and why were not being forewarned about this strongly?



#36 OFFLINE   Hutchinshouse

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 08:07 AM

CSR's now saying "Staying on Ethernet is Illegal" :rolling:

#37 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 08:11 AM

I think that a lot of things are illegal, but it does not mean they are.
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#38 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 08:31 AM

I think that a lot of things are illegal, but it does not mean they are.


Well, you never know what the MPAA will do next.

#39 OFFLINE   anleva

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 08:43 AM

I think that a lot of things are illegal, but it does not mean they are.


Spoken like a true Libertarian. :D

#40 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 08:45 AM

Pzr6wk7FVXE
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#41 OFFLINE   anleva

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 08:49 AM

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I remember many nights messing around with my rabbit ears antenna to try and improve the picture of Monty Python's Flying Circus.

#42 OFFLINE   pappy97

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 09:12 AM

I did NOT have to switch packages (I still have PLUS HD DVR bundled and MRV is working after the beta shutoff) and I did NOT have my commitment extended.


Wow, another person who has the legacy PLUS HD DVR package and they have MRV on. So how did you do it?

Others are saying they had to have a CSR change them to a current package, turn on MRV, then switch back to legacy and then they could turn MRV on.

Is that how it worked for you? If not, how did it work for you? I am wanting to turn MRV on without changing anything to programming package (which is also PLUS HD DVR).
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#43 OFFLINE   Carl Spock

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 09:29 AM

You know what's totally crazy about the CSR's argument that the Ethernet taxes DirecTV's resources for MRV? It isn't even their system!

Recently I was explaining MRV to a buddy who was at my house. He looked puzzled. "So DirecTV needs for you to hook up to cable for their system to work?" Yes, I replied slowly, sensing the trap I was falling into. You could hook up to a DSL phone line, I added, but most of us use a cable modem. My buddy nodded. In case I was thick, he said, "So you have to do business with the competition to make DirecTV's MRV system work." Yes. I had to admit it does sound crazy stupid.

We accept this as part of the deal. To an outsider, it sounds contradictory. But unless you are using On Demand, DirecTV's use of Internet bandwidth outside your house is tiny. MRV simply cannot stress their system in any way. As my buddy pointed out, it isn't even their system.
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#44 OFFLINE   miles

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 09:35 AM

I called D* on May 19th and asked to continue the MRV with ethernet after the beta trial. The CSR said OK and that I would not have to do anything further.
I thought that was too easy so I called the next day on May 20th, the day the beta was supposed to end and the CSR told me I would have to get a SWM and DECA upgrade. I told him to just go to the accounts attributes and make sure the MRV option is set to unsupported then initiate the Home service for my account. He did what I told him and I now have MRV without the beta and received a confirmation email on the new service.

#45 OFFLINE   HofstraJet

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 09:36 AM

Uh.....only a government or an agency authorized by the government can create laws and make things illegal. Last time I checked, DirecTV was neither. :nono2:

#46 OFFLINE   Doug Brott

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 09:37 AM

You know what's totally crazy about the CSR's argument that the Ethernet taxes DirecTV's resources for MRV? It isn't even their system!

Recently I was explaining MRV to a buddy who was at my house. He looked puzzled. "So DirecTV needs for you to hook up to cable for their system to work?" Yes, I replied slowly, sensing the trap I was falling into. You could hook up to a DSL phone line, I added, but most of us use a cable modem. My buddy nodded. In case I was thick, he said, "So you have to do business with the competition to make DirecTV's MRV system work." Yes. I had to admit it does sound crazy stupid.

We accept this as part of the deal. To an outsider, it sounds contradictory. But unless you are using On Demand, DirecTV's use of Internet bandwidth outside your house is tiny. MRV simply cannot stress their system in any way. As my buddy pointed out, it isn't even their system.


This is simply not true .. you don't actually NEED to connect to any router, switch or other non-DIRECTV device to get MRV to work. MRV works just fine in a self-contained environment.

Now, if you are talking about VOD, TV Apps, etc. OK, yeah, you do need to connect to the competition (really the Internet) for that.
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#47 OFFLINE   DogLover

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 09:42 AM

You know what's totally crazy about the CSR's argument that the Ethernet taxes DirecTV's resources for MRV? It isn't even their system!

Recently I was explaining MRV to a buddy who was at my house. He looked puzzled. "So DirecTV needs for you to hook up to cable for their system to work?" Yes, I replied slowly, sensing the trap I was falling into. You could hook up to a DSL phone line, I added, but most of us use a cable modem. My buddy nodded. In case I was thick, he said, "So you have to do business with the competition to make DirecTV's MRV system work." Yes. I had to admit it does sound crazy stupid.

We accept this as part of the deal. To an outsider, it sounds contradictory. But unless you are using On Demand, DirecTV's use of Internet bandwidth outside your house is tiny. MRV simply cannot stress their system in any way. As my buddy pointed out, it isn't even their system.


And outside of a few rougue HR20-100's that have problems, MRV will work without any internet connection at all. So there is no way, in that case, that anything could "leach" resources from DirecTV.
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#48 OFFLINE   Carl Spock

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 10:05 AM

And outside of a few rougue HR20-100's that have problems, MRV will work without any internet connection at all. So there is no way, in that case, that anything could "leach" resources from DirecTV.

This is simply not true .. you don't actually NEED to connect to any router, switch or other non-DIRECTV device to get MRV to work. MRV works just fine in a self-contained environment.

Now, if you are talking about VOD, TV Apps, etc. OK, yeah, you do need to connect to the competition (really the Internet) for that.

I should have been clearer. My buddy and I were talking about doing MRV before SWiM and DECA were a nationwide reality. It had to be hooked up to a whole house Ethernet solution. In this case, we were talking about piggy-backing MRV on a system I had up and running years before I ever tried adding MRV. I guess I'm parochial in that I view my whole house wired Ethernet distribution as part of a cable Internet system. It's been that way for years (I had a wired Ethernet distribution system well before I added a wireless capability). Call me stuck in the mud. To get MRV Beta to work, I had to hook up into that system.

Yes, of course MRV could be set up in a cabin in the wilderness, with no cable, phone or other connection outside of electricity, and that could even be provided by a generator, using SWiM and DECA. It is a closed system. But since we were talking about Ethernet systems, I didn't consider that.

And as both Doug and DogLover point out, and as I well know given the very flaky nature of my cable service (I lose the Interent 2-3 times a year for most of a day or night), you don't need an active Internet connection for MRV to work.
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#49 OFFLINE   pfp

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 10:18 AM

I should have been clearer. My buddy and I were talking about doing MRV before SWiM and DECA were a nationwide reality. It had to be hooked up to a whole house Ethernet solution. In this case, we were talking about piggy-backing MRV on a system I had up and running years before I ever tried adding MRV. I guess I'm parochial in that I view my whole house wired Ethernet distribution as part of a cable Internet system. It's been that way for years (I had a wired Ethernet distribution system well before I added a wireless capability). Call me stuck in the mud. To get MRV Beta to work, I had to hook up into that system.

Yes, of course MRV could be set up in a cabin in the wilderness, with no cable, phone or other connection outside of electricity, and that could even be provided by a generator, using SWiM and DECA. It is a closed system. But since we were talking about Ethernet systems, I didn't consider that.

And as both Doug and DogLover point out, and as I well know given the very flaky nature of my cable service (I lose the Interent 2-3 times a year for most of a day or night), you don't need an active Internet connection for MRV to work.


MRV can be setup with Ethernet in a closed system too. There is no reason you could not connect all your receivers to a switch and NOT connect the switch to the Internet.
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#50 OFFLINE   paragon

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 10:25 AM

Wow, another person who has the legacy PLUS HD DVR package and they have MRV on. So how did you do it?

Others are saying they had to have a CSR change them to a current package, turn on MRV, then switch back to legacy and then they could turn MRV on.

Is that how it worked for you? If not, how did it work for you? I am wanting to turn MRV on without changing anything to programming package (which is also PLUS HD DVR).


I didn't do anything special. I just called up and ordered a DECA upgrade and after the upgrade was done (I assume after the tech closed the work order), MRV was added to my account.

I even double checked my account history and there were no package switching shenanigans.

Here's the only stuff on my Recent History from May (the credit is them refunding my installation fee due to promising me an HR24 upgrade and then not delivering it). It also shows that I am still on PLUS HD HDVR.

05/14/2010 XXXXXXXXXXXX DIRECTV Whole-Home DVR Service - Charge $0.90 $0.05
05/14/2010 XXXXXXXXXXXX PLUS HD DVR - Customer Retention ($49.00) ($2.94)




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