Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo

CSR's now saying "Staying on Ethernet is Illegal"


  • Please log in to reply
93 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   say-what

say-what

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 5,688 posts
  • LocationNew Orleans
Joined: Dec 13, 2006

Posted 21 May 2010 - 05:32 AM

The DECA dongle takes the coax network ("DECA Cloud") and bridges to the Ethernet port of the HR20/21/22/23. So in effect, both scenarios are Ethernet port connected, just one uses the DirecTV cabling for the home network, and the IP address is the same when used with home network DHCP.

There has been much discussion on this topic, with presentation of advantages to the DECA configuration (support, performance, ...), along with the obvious reasons why DECA is the standard, because it utilizes the existing coax cabling, but not aware of any difference affecting anything outside the home.

It's just an IP transport mechanism within the home. An easy one.

Exactly - any DECA setup with the ethernet bridge is going to have the same access to the internet and DirecTV's servers as any ethernet setup. Those CSR's are seriously misinformed.

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#22 OFFLINE   Mrmiami

Mrmiami

    Legend

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 201 posts
Joined: Oct 03, 2006

Posted 21 May 2010 - 05:32 AM

then he was lying. he has no idea what he is talking about and was trying to convince you he did.


I suspected it was a line of bunk to sell this service all along but I was going DECA anyway I just didn't expect I'd have to do it right away in order to get my 6 DVR tuners back, I (we) can't go without them at this point because were using all of them up on Weds and Thurs programming. I know I could of hung up and tried another CSR but I was only calling to get an idea of what it was going to cost me down the road and use the email way to keep it same ol- same ol for now but made the decision at that time to just get it over with. I'm sure he earned some points with his Super on that sell but it wasn't a hard sell in fact he told me that when the tech calls to tell me thier coming over if they don't have the 24-500's I've requested I can cancel install at no cost. I suspect they will not have the 3 I requested so most likely will be exercising that right to cancel. At some point it will have to be done again or maybe I'll just do it myself at my convenience, who know's.

#23 OFFLINE   David MacLeod

David MacLeod

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,689 posts
Joined: Jan 29, 2008

Posted 21 May 2010 - 05:37 AM

not sure about guaranteeing receiver models either, keep an eye on that. I'd be more concerned about having proper switches and deca equipment then rec models at this point.

just be aware.
Dave MacLeod
S.I.H.

#24 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

Mike Bertelson

    6EQUJ5 WOW!

  • Moderators
  • 13,953 posts
Joined: Jan 24, 2007

Posted 21 May 2010 - 05:37 AM

<snip>

In short, during the Beta testing using ethernet only setups it really was taxing and eating up D* service and servers and staying on that type of network is leaching off of D* service and sucking it dry. I don't know all the fine details on this and hopefully someone here in the know can better explain this viewpoint from DirecTV's perspective but if that is their opinion now I would fully expect them to eliminate that method at somepoint down the line.

<snip>

I don't really know what this paragraph means, but I'm pretty sure it's frakkin' impossible...I'm just sayin' :grin:

Mike

µß
Since it costs 2.4¢ to produce a penny, my 2¢ worth is really 4.8¢ worth.  That 4.8¢ is my own and not the 4.8¢ of DIRECTV, Dish, or anyone else for that matter.


#25 OFFLINE   Mrmiami

Mrmiami

    Legend

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 201 posts
Joined: Oct 03, 2006

Posted 21 May 2010 - 05:37 AM

Mrmiami - did you send an e-mail and get a response from DirecTV?


No, not yet b/c I was going this way anyhow but if they fail to get the 3 24-500's I've requested (which I'm almost 100% sure they will fail) then I'll be sending the email for the time being. I do want to go the supported route though at some point but if I'm going to go all new system then it's going to be all in or nothing from them for now. I'm sure the email way will work I just didn't want the interruption in use but it'll be what it is.

#26 OFFLINE   Carl Spock

Carl Spock

    Superfly

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 4,567 posts
Joined: Sep 03, 2004

Posted 21 May 2010 - 05:39 AM

Back when I was a young buck salesman, Mrmiami, I'd make up stories on the sales floor. It wasn't to please my bosses or make points. It wasn't even to make the sale. I lied because I thought it made me sound smarter than I really was.

I think your CSR, Chris, is going through a similar period. Hopefully, soon he, too, will realize he doesn't need to tell stories to sound smart. It's enough to just tell the truth.
hangin' with the bros at 40 Eridani A

#27 OFFLINE   BudShark

BudShark

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 3,188 posts
Joined: Aug 11, 2003

Posted 21 May 2010 - 05:41 AM

No, not yet b/c I was going this way anyhow but if they fail to get the 3 24-500's I've requested (which I'm almost 100% sure they will fail) then I'll be sending the email for the time being. I do want to go the supported route though at some point but if I'm going to go all new system then it's going to be all in or nothing from them for now. I'm sure the email way will work I just didn't want the interruption in use but it'll be what it is.


Well this is a completely different question and maybe some background is needed.

"Requesting" specific receivers is not an option. An HR20/21/22/23/24 are equal in the eyes of DirecTV in terms of their support for MRV. The only difference being whether you need a DECA at the device. I'm guessing you won't get 3 24s, and its not because they failed, its because thats not their policy.

#28 OFFLINE   Mrmiami

Mrmiami

    Legend

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 201 posts
Joined: Oct 03, 2006

Posted 21 May 2010 - 05:49 AM

yes, external to the house there is no difference between deca and ethernet.


Yea, I knew he was talking out his lower region especially when I restated the fact that they are going to use the same router I'm using now to complete the internet connection that I am now currently using and I didn't see how that was in anyway different at saving bandwidth when the end result is channeled though the same way. Three receivers going out my router with my other 2 computers, his response, "well yea but that is the preferred way and the only option they offer anyone else who is doing it any other way is doing so illegally" I think I may of laughed at him again at that point but since I wanted to go that way anyhow I went forward with the change over......he just had to work much harder at getting to the inevitable ending for me.

#29 OFFLINE   David MacLeod

David MacLeod

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,689 posts
Joined: Jan 29, 2008

Posted 21 May 2010 - 05:58 AM

deca has a lot of good selling points on its own (especially since you wanted it anyway) w/o any embellishment, just irks me when people do this to customers.
factor in the point that they gave everyone 7 days to get converted to deca with not enough training or supplies and you see what a mess this turned out to be...
ah well, I'm done complaining now :)

glad you seem to have gotten everything worked out and hope your install goes well.
Dave MacLeod
S.I.H.

#30 OFFLINE   dwcolvin

dwcolvin

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 668 posts
Joined: Oct 04, 2007

Posted 21 May 2010 - 06:00 AM

In short, during the Beta testing using ethernet only setups it really was taxing and eating up D* service and servers and staying on that type of network is leaching off of D* service and sucking it dry. I don't know all the fine details on this and hopefully someone here in the know can better explain this viewpoint from DirecTV's perspective but if that is their opinion now I would fully expect them to eliminate that method at somepoint down the line.

I'd appreciate any input from anyone that has the credentials to dispute this claim or at the very least explain why some are being allowed to stay with the Leaching method as opposed to the Legal D* perferred method, BTW those are both (leaching/legal)their terminology not mine.

Please don't just come in here writing I been fed hook,line and sinker and been fed the bait, I suspect that in part that is true but remember, I already knew I was going DECA way before the call. I'm just trying to find out what the long term implications will be and why they seem to be throwing all the Beta testers a changeup now (if any truth to this mindset) and why were not being forewarned about this strongly?


!rolling

The only thing taxing to D* was trying to explain to clueless folks how to connect Ethernet, and why wireless really didn't work.

They knew well before the MRV Beta that variations in customer networks and knowhow made supporting Home Networks virtually impossible. And they needed a system Techs could install. They simply jumped on the MOCA bandwagon with a litte tweak and... DECA.

All DECA is is a different way to transport IP packets. Same packets as Ethernet, same number of packets as Ethernet. And with MRV, none of them leave the customer's home. DECA bypasses vagaries in customer networks, limits contention for bandwidth with other home IP traffic, and potentially impliments QOS priority that may be lacking in home networks.

DECA still ultimately attaches to the customer's Ethernet network. Any IP traffic that flowed to D* with Ethernet still flows with DECA. They can't eliminate Ethernet, because they can't tell it's there. There is no difference between the 'u' flag for Ethernet users, and the same flag for self-installed DECA users (such as the DECA Beta testers).

Now, they will only install SWiM/DECA (and even that doesn't always work), and new installs will already be DECA-capable so will have no need to go the unsupported route.

So yeah, the CSR fed you a line of BS. :lol:

DIRECTV and NFL-ST since 1994, Slimline w/SL5 LNB, SWiM-16
HR44-700; 2x HR24-500; HR22-100; H25-500; C31-700; GenieGo
Gigabit Ethernet (DirecTV DECA); 2.4 and 5GHz 802.11n; HD Slingbox


#31 OFFLINE   joed32

joed32

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,685 posts
Joined: Jul 27, 2006

Posted 21 May 2010 - 06:08 AM

Mine was activated last week and went off yesterday. I called a CSR and got into a heated argument with him. He said now that beta is over home networks won't work anymore. I told him to try and he said he did but it won't work. After we hung up it came back on and is now "Authorized" again.

I did order DECA twice and both time the work order did not have SWM on it so no install possible. I'll try again someday. In the mean time MRV is fine.

#32 OFFLINE   leww37334

leww37334

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,489 posts
Joined: Sep 19, 2005

Posted 21 May 2010 - 06:20 AM

per CSR:
total DECA cost

equipment $162. mrv $3/month ( more when they force you to change packages, yes it happened to me) extends commitment to two years (NOT one, asked three times to make sure))
“Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.” - Ayn Rand

#33 OFFLINE   oldengineer

oldengineer

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 455 posts
Joined: May 25, 2008

Posted 21 May 2010 - 07:09 AM

per CSR:
total DECA cost

equipment $162. mrv $3/month ( more when they force you to change packages, yes it happened to me) extends commitment to two years (NOT one, asked three times to make sure))


I had to switch packages to split Choice Extra, HD and DVR service to use MRV/DECA. The switch and installation did NOT extend my commitment. You should fight this.

2H/1J


#34 OFFLINE   paragon

paragon

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 354 posts
Joined: Nov 15, 2007

Posted 21 May 2010 - 07:35 AM

per CSR:
total DECA cost

equipment $162. mrv $3/month ( more when they force you to change packages, yes it happened to me) extends commitment to two years (NOT one, asked three times to make sure))


I had to switch packages to split Choice Extra, HD and DVR service to use MRV/DECA. The switch and installation did NOT extend my commitment. You should fight this.


I did NOT have to switch packages (I still have PLUS HD DVR bundled and MRV is working after the beta shutoff) and I did NOT have my commitment extended.

#35 OFFLINE   kokishin

kokishin

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 457 posts
  • LocationSilicon Valley, CA
Joined: Sep 30, 2006

Posted 21 May 2010 - 08:05 AM

When I get a CSR who is clueless (more times than not), I ask to speak to their supervisor. If the supervisor is clueless, then I say good bye and call back again. I would NEVER spend one hour on the phone with a clueless CSR. I estimate you have a 1 in 3 chance of getting a knowledgable CSR.


I had planned to go the DECA way anyway when I was prepared to spend the additional money for an all new componets system so I called to investigate the possible cost's but said for now, I was going to stay with the current "Unsupported" Ethernet setup I already had. I just think it would be a wiser choice to go with a setup that D* backs as opposed to staying in a channel that is not supported in any way by D* but what I was told is That is/was not an option. Now I am not naive about the fact that this whole MRV thing is yet another grab/hook for additional money grabbing with the swapping out of boxes,charges for adapters and hookup fees so I took what my CSR (Chris) was telling me with a grain of salt knowing full well his job is really to sell not just flip switches and change account information. However, when he was explaining how and why D* was viewing staying on Ethernet only setup was considered illegle he certainly raised some very valid points about why it was allowed in Beta form and why they want to go in DECA form direction. I wont go into all the details that were explained in GREAT detail to me over the phone (conversation took over an hour) but it raised concern for me in terms of others that are staying pat with ethernet only and perhaps not aware of D* view on this and the implications for them down the line.

No, I'm not saying the D* Police are going to show up at your door to take you and all your "illegal" equipment away in fact, I actually chuckled out loud to Chris when he used that term because I'm pretty sure if I pressed him to show me this documentation of Illegality in writing that it would never come to fruition but is did solidify my decision to go with the DECA if standing pat meant I'd eventually be left in the dark as far as MRV was concered and I'd be doing this anyway down the road.

In short, during the Beta testing using ethernet only setups it really was taxing and eating up D* service and servers and staying on that type of network is leaching off of D* service and sucking it dry. I don't know all the fine details on this and hopefully someone here in the know can better explain this viewpoint from DirecTV's perspective but if that is their opinion now I would fully expect them to eliminate that method at somepoint down the line.

I'd appreciate any input from anyone that has the credentials to dispute this claim or at the very least explain why some are being allowed to stay with the Leaching method as opposed to the Legal D* perferred method, BTW those are both (leaching/legal)their terminology not mine.

Please don't just come in here writing I been fed hook,line and sinker and been fed the bait, I suspect that in part that is true but remember, I already knew I was going DECA way before the call. I'm just trying to find out what the long term implications will be and why they seem to be throwing all the Beta testers a changeup now (if any truth to this mindset) and why were not being forewarned about this strongly?



#36 OFFLINE   Hutchinshouse

Hutchinshouse

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 4,632 posts
Joined: Sep 27, 2006

Posted 21 May 2010 - 08:07 AM

CSR's now saying "Staying on Ethernet is Illegal" :rolling:

#37 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

Stuart Sweet

    The Shadow Knows!

  • Super Moderators
  • 36,906 posts
Joined: Jun 18, 2006

Posted 21 May 2010 - 08:11 AM

I think that a lot of things are illegal, but it does not mean they are.
Opinions expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily reflect
those of DBSTalk.com, DIRECTV, DISH, The Signal Group, or any other company.

#38 OFFLINE   dpeters11

dpeters11

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 13,503 posts
  • LocationCincinnati
Joined: May 30, 2007

Posted 21 May 2010 - 08:31 AM

I think that a lot of things are illegal, but it does not mean they are.


Well, you never know what the MPAA will do next.

#39 OFFLINE   anleva

anleva

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 567 posts
Joined: Nov 14, 2007

Posted 21 May 2010 - 08:43 AM

I think that a lot of things are illegal, but it does not mean they are.


Spoken like a true Libertarian. :D

#40 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

Stuart Sweet

    The Shadow Knows!

  • Super Moderators
  • 36,906 posts
Joined: Jun 18, 2006

Posted 21 May 2010 - 08:45 AM

Pzr6wk7FVXE
Opinions expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily reflect
those of DBSTalk.com, DIRECTV, DISH, The Signal Group, or any other company.




Protected By... spam firewall...And...