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A 2010 compendium of D* DVR bugs


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194 replies to this topic

#41 ONLINE   Rich

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 08:45 AM

Frank, do you consider countries that drive on the left have roads with design deficiencies or is it just the way they do it there?


Oddly, there is a perfectly logical reason for countries that drive on different sides of the road. I won't go into it on the forum, but the logic is hard to find fault with.

Rich

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#42 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 09:09 AM

It may just be me, but many of the items on these lists are long gone or are equipment/installation related. I cannot believe that one DVR has all these problems. It would be impossible to have a platform that bad.

Although the OP has admitted that these lists are gleaned from his experience and postings here (and maybe else), so I think it’s only fair to make a determination of the current status of these issues. It is not at all fair to say these are all currently issues if they are not.

Take blank recordings for instance. I haven’t had one of those for years.

I’ve never seen the Replay delay in operation and only jump back two seconds. Using the HDNet Test Pattern, I’ve consistently seen it jump 5-7 from the button press.

I don’t even understand what having to wait three full seconds before repeating a button press. I’ve never seen that and I’ve tried to replicate as many ways I can think on all three of my DVRs. I hope the OP can clarify that one because I may correctly understand the issue. It might be why I can’t replicate it.

I have seen a run on recording in years either. That isn’t to say no one else has, but I have two DVRs in the living room that record daily and I haven’t had one in a long time.

Ok, the 30-60 second video/audio freezes I’m afraid I have to call BS on. If that is happening on a regular basis then there is something wrong with the hardware/wiring and not the DVR/firmware design/coding. I’m sorry Syzygy but that certainly is not, nor has it ever been the way the receiver operates. I’ve had an HR since Feb ’07 and have never seen that...ever.

I don’t mean to chastise you, but you have listed everything that has ever been reported or seen. You need to at least appear like you’re trying to be objective. I could go back and do the exact same thing for any DVR and come up with a list just as long. Just because someone posts an issue doesn’t make it a flaw or bug with the DVR or the firmware, yet you say all these issues are just that. Heck, even you can’t possible believe that.

The HR series is not perfect. Nor is any other DVR out there. I get that you want TiVo but at least try to be objective.

Mike

µß
Since it costs 2.4¢ to produce a penny, my 2¢ worth is really 4.8¢ worth.  That 4.8¢ is my own and not the 4.8¢ of DIRECTV, Dish, or anyone else for that matter.


#43 OFFLINE   Blurayfan

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 09:12 AM

• The presence of a VOD SD version of a film prevents the recording of a broadcast HD version.


I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean at all.


Stuart recently DirecTV pushed the SD version of an On Demand video The Proposal. Recording the HD version was not possible unless you were watching the program live, scheduling in advance failed. Those who wanted to record this program in HD from Starz were prevented with a message "The Proposal is available to Watch Now and has been added to your playlist.

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#44 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 09:18 AM

Stuart recently DirecTV pushed the SD version of an On Demand video The Proposal. Recording the HD version was not possible unless you were watching the program live, scheduling in advance failed. Those who wanted to record this program in HD from Starz were prevented with a message "The Proposal is available to Watch Now and has been added to your playlist.

I had to setup a manual recording in order to get the HD version. Starz on demand was the problem. The system should have given me the option of recording the HD version. This is definitely a flaw (not a bug) in the firmware. I wonder if it's been fixed yet.

Mike

µß
Since it costs 2.4¢ to produce a penny, my 2¢ worth is really 4.8¢ worth.  That 4.8¢ is my own and not the 4.8¢ of DIRECTV, Dish, or anyone else for that matter.


#45 OFFLINE   bird13

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 09:30 AM

The criticism of your post is IMO, baffling, and I appreciate your effort. I don't understand the need to 'defend the honor' of a DVR....it's not like you're disrespecting a loved hometown sports hero, or 'Iron Man' fer cryin' out loud.

For those of us that are new to the HR2X (myself included) it's reassuring to see that a problem I might have experienced is not one that is unit specific, thus requiring a call to DTV.

Thank you.

#46 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 09:33 AM

The criticism of your post is IMO, baffling, and I appreciate your effort. I don't understand the need to 'defend the honor' of a DVR....it's not like you're disrespecting a loved hometown sports hero, or 'Iron Man' fer cryin' out loud.

For those of us that are new to the HR2X (myself included) it's reassuring to see that a problem I might have experienced is not one that is unit specific, thus requiring a call to DTV.

Thank you.

I'm sorry, but some of the criticism is valid.

Mike

µß
Since it costs 2.4¢ to produce a penny, my 2¢ worth is really 4.8¢ worth.  That 4.8¢ is my own and not the 4.8¢ of DIRECTV, Dish, or anyone else for that matter.


#47 OFFLINE   Syzygy

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 09:38 AM

Syzygy - Could you give us a 2009 summary or compendium of the D* DVR bugs so we could compare and contrast with this year's? :)

It's at A compendium of HR2x software problems — which contained only 60 to 70 items, the last few of which were just sarcastic fun.
Frank TiVangelist since Aug 1999, HD since Dec 2002, DirecTV since Aug 2004, DECA/MRV since Nov 2010
HR24-100 > HDMI > Pio 5020FD plasma
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#48 OFFLINE   Syzygy

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 09:48 AM

A lot of the problems listed seem to [be] system problems rather than HR problems.

I did my best to include only problems that were clearly not system problems (such as a bad incoming signal, a misaligned dish, bad BBCs or connectors, flaky hard drive, and so on).

For example, the following problem still exists, but was omitted from the 2010 list because I accept the notion that it's a problem with DirecTV's MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 transcoders, which turn small interruptions in the MPEG-2 stream into large disturbances in the MPEG-4 stream. (If that's so, then the new TiVo will have the same problem.)

• Sporadic bursts of audio dropouts (which used to be shorter Brrrrpps)

Edited by Syzygy, 22 May 2010 - 09:54 AM.

Frank TiVangelist since Aug 1999, HD since Dec 2002, DirecTV since Aug 2004, DECA/MRV since Nov 2010
HR24-100 > HDMI > Pio 5020FD plasma
HR24-100 > HDMI > Sony KV30HS420 tube

DirecTV & Dish HD Channel Spreadsheet
DirecTV & Dish HD Channels Listed by Package

#49 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 09:54 AM

I did my best to include only problems that were clearly not system problems (such as a bad incoming signal, a misaligned dish, bad BBCs or connectors, flaky hard drive, and so on).

While I think you tried to, some of the issues sure look related to them.
I have a good system and simply don't have many of your bullet items.
:shrug:
A.K.A VOS

#50 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 09:58 AM

For example, the following problem still exists, but was omitted from the 2010 list because I accept the notion that it's a problem with DirecTV's MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 transcoders, which turn small interruptions in the MPEG-2 stream into large disturbances in the MPEG-4 stream. (If that's so, then the new TiVo will have the same problem.)

• Sporadic bursts of audio dropouts (which used to be shorter Brrrrpps)

There is only one receiver that has this, "THAT IS NOT" related to the SAT feed transcoding and Dolby. I'm working with El Segundo directly over this one and it is software related.
ALL MPEG-4 receivers are affected by the transcoding issues/problems, so this isn't a DVR issue.
A.K.A VOS

#51 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 10:40 AM

One thing I'm not sure I understand is what it means to have to wait a full three seconds to repeat a button press. :scratchin


I don’t even understand what having to wait three full seconds before repeating a button press. I’ve never seen that and I’ve tried to replicate as many ways I can think on all three of my DVRs. I hope the OP can clarify that one because I may correctly understand the issue. It might be why I can’t replicate it.


I apparently missed what you're referring to, but it might have to do with an issue I've seen with the HR23-700... namely that it can be hard to change the channel (among other things).

You essentially have to wait so many seconds in between hitting a number before hitting another one... and in so doing, the HR23-700 often "times out" prior to hitting all three numbers... and don't get me started if you're trying to change the channel to an OTA channel with four button presses!

It can also be a pain when you're going through the Playlist or the Guide as well as many other menu functions. :(

However, I am PROUD to say that this is now GREATLY improved with the newest NR. :D

~Alan

#52 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 10:50 AM

I apparently missed what you're referring to, but it might have to do with an issue I've seen with the HR23-700... namely that it can be hard to change the channel (among other things).

You essentially have to wait so many seconds in between hitting a number before hitting another one... and in so doing, the HR23-700 often "times out" prior to hitting all three numbers... and don't get me started if you're trying to change the channel to an OTA channel with four button presses!

It can also be a pain when you're going through the Playlist or the Guide as well as many other menu functions. :(

However, I am PROUD to say that this is now GREATLY improved with the newest NR. :D

~Alan

This is what I'm asking about...

The following problems can't be called accidents, like having a beetle crawl into the computer circuitry. Instead, they're supposedly the result of careful thought.

User Interface:

• The remote waits a full 3 seconds before allowing a key to repeat.

So. Yet another design mistake.

And I suppose the remote still makes you hold down a key 3 seconds before it repeats?


It's different each time Syzygy posts it so I'm unclear as to what it means.


Mike

µß
Since it costs 2.4¢ to produce a penny, my 2¢ worth is really 4.8¢ worth.  That 4.8¢ is my own and not the 4.8¢ of DIRECTV, Dish, or anyone else for that matter.


#53 OFFLINE   mjbvideo

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 11:06 AM

Reading the list jogged my memory. I recently had a show 'run away' and record for hours upon hours.
I appreciate his effort. Let's push DirecTV to continuously improve but focus on fixing the basic issues that affect a lot of people.
As for me, I don't report my bugs as much because I have consumed too much DTV Kool Aid and I'm just tired of it. I've had their techs out here to look at my system and they tweak everything but the DVR's all continue to have the same issues.
So the HR24 is the latest savior. How is that going to help us slugs who are stuck with the older machines?
IMHO, I think they need a fresh set of eyes in their software design group. Get the software "A-Team" in their and optimize the code so that is works well in all their DVR's.

#54 OFFLINE   Syzygy

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 11:22 AM

There is only one receiver that has this, "THAT IS NOT" related to the SAT feed transcoding and Dolby. I'm working with El Segundo directly over this one and it is software related.

ALL MPEG-4 receivers are affected by the transcoding issues/problems, so this isn't a DVR issue.

I'm not sure I understand you. Are you saying that, while there still transcoding problems that affect all MPEG-4 receivers, there is one particular receiver type that has audio dropouts caused by its own firmware? If so, pray tell, what model is that?
Frank TiVangelist since Aug 1999, HD since Dec 2002, DirecTV since Aug 2004, DECA/MRV since Nov 2010
HR24-100 > HDMI > Pio 5020FD plasma
HR24-100 > HDMI > Sony KV30HS420 tube

DirecTV & Dish HD Channel Spreadsheet
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#55 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 11:40 AM

I'm not sure I understand you. Are you saying that, while there still transcoding problems that affect all MPEG-4 receivers, there is one particular receiver type that has audio dropouts caused by its own firmware? If so, pray tell, what model is that?

There is a system wide problem with Dolby in some MPEG-4 encoders. This has been an ongoing problem. First it was the lipsync problems, then the brripps ["fix one"] and now they mute them [fix 2]. This still isn't "fixed", as I see it. Some AVRs don't handle this very well, while other aren't as bad. Fixing the loss of DD5.1 IMO is the real fix.
As to what I'm involved with, I'll leave that for those that have read my posts.
Not everything is in the DVR.

Now to show [I hope] that I don't have rose colored glasses as I look at DirecTV:
From being here and helping others for several years, there is a design flaw in the DVRs with the use of a very crappy power supply. They are so sensitive to voltage changes or noise on the AC lines that this causes all sorts of receiver issues. A customer shouldn't need to buy & use a UPS, under normal use/conditions, to have their receiver work.
They should work with anything from 110 to 126 volts, but don't always.
Turning on a dimmer switch or a florescent light shouldn't cause a 771 error.

"Blank recordings" may not be in the DVR, but in the dish to receiver link, since the receiver may send the tune signal and if the dish doesn't tune, then the DVR records "nothing". Had you been watching this live, you'd see the 771 message, but this doesn't get recorded, so later you have no idea this was the cause.

Yes there are things wrong. Some are in the DVR, some at the SAT/uplink end, and some may simply come down to environment issues like a LCD display interfering with the IR signal.
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#56 OFFLINE   Syzygy

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 11:49 AM

One thing I'm not sure I understand is what it means to have to wait a full three seconds to repeat a button press. :scratchin

I don’t even understand what having to wait three full seconds before repeating a button press. I’ve never seen that...

[Syzygy, in Design Errors] • The remote waits a full 3 seconds before allowing a key to repeat.
[Syzygy, in another thread] And I suppose the remote still makes you hold down a key 3 seconds before it repeats?

It's different each time Syzygy posts it so I'm unclear as to what it means.

Just for MicroBeta, I'm revising the Design Error item to say:

• The remote will not repeat automatically unless you hold down a key for a full 3 seconds.

I hope that's clear. ;)
Frank TiVangelist since Aug 1999, HD since Dec 2002, DirecTV since Aug 2004, DECA/MRV since Nov 2010
HR24-100 > HDMI > Pio 5020FD plasma
HR24-100 > HDMI > Sony KV30HS420 tube

DirecTV & Dish HD Channel Spreadsheet
DirecTV & Dish HD Channels Listed by Package

#57 ONLINE   Rich

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 12:22 PM

Just for MicroBeta, I'm revising the Design Error item to say:

• The remote will not repeat automatically unless you hold down a key for a full 3 seconds.

I hope that's clear. ;)


Not to me, it isn't. What are you trying to do when you have to press the key for a full 3 seconds? I'm not busting chops, I truly don't understand what you are trying to say.

Rich

#58 OFFLINE   Syzygy

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 12:29 PM

Trying to slide up/down in a list, a menu, or the Guide, one item at a time.

Edited by Syzygy, 22 May 2010 - 12:35 PM.

Frank TiVangelist since Aug 1999, HD since Dec 2002, DirecTV since Aug 2004, DECA/MRV since Nov 2010
HR24-100 > HDMI > Pio 5020FD plasma
HR24-100 > HDMI > Sony KV30HS420 tube

DirecTV & Dish HD Channel Spreadsheet
DirecTV & Dish HD Channels Listed by Package

#59 ONLINE   Rich

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 12:36 PM

Trying to slide up/down a list or a menu, one item at a time.


So, for instance, you're on the Playlist and you can't go from one program to another without waiting three seconds or more?

Rich

#60 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 12:44 PM

I hope that's clear. ;)


It is for me, and while I was wrong about the issue you were referring to, I can state that I've noticed this as well...

~Alan




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