Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

A 2010 compendium of D* DVR bugs


  • Please log in to reply
194 replies to this topic

#51 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

Alan Gordon

    Chancellor

  • Registered
  • 9,081 posts
  • LocationDawson, Georgia
Joined: Jun 07, 2004

Posted 22 May 2010 - 10:40 AM

One thing I'm not sure I understand is what it means to have to wait a full three seconds to repeat a button press. :scratchin


I don’t even understand what having to wait three full seconds before repeating a button press. I’ve never seen that and I’ve tried to replicate as many ways I can think on all three of my DVRs. I hope the OP can clarify that one because I may correctly understand the issue. It might be why I can’t replicate it.


I apparently missed what you're referring to, but it might have to do with an issue I've seen with the HR23-700... namely that it can be hard to change the channel (among other things).

You essentially have to wait so many seconds in between hitting a number before hitting another one... and in so doing, the HR23-700 often "times out" prior to hitting all three numbers... and don't get me started if you're trying to change the channel to an OTA channel with four button presses!

It can also be a pain when you're going through the Playlist or the Guide as well as many other menu functions. :(

However, I am PROUD to say that this is now GREATLY improved with the newest NR. :D

~Alan

...Ads Help To Support This Site...

#52 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

Mike Bertelson

    6EQUJ5 WOW!

  • Moderators
  • 13,996 posts
Joined: Jan 24, 2007

Posted 22 May 2010 - 10:50 AM

I apparently missed what you're referring to, but it might have to do with an issue I've seen with the HR23-700... namely that it can be hard to change the channel (among other things).

You essentially have to wait so many seconds in between hitting a number before hitting another one... and in so doing, the HR23-700 often "times out" prior to hitting all three numbers... and don't get me started if you're trying to change the channel to an OTA channel with four button presses!

It can also be a pain when you're going through the Playlist or the Guide as well as many other menu functions. :(

However, I am PROUD to say that this is now GREATLY improved with the newest NR. :D

~Alan

This is what I'm asking about...

The following problems can't be called accidents, like having a beetle crawl into the computer circuitry. Instead, they're supposedly the result of careful thought.

User Interface:

• The remote waits a full 3 seconds before allowing a key to repeat.

So. Yet another design mistake.

And I suppose the remote still makes you hold down a key 3 seconds before it repeats?


It's different each time Syzygy posts it so I'm unclear as to what it means.


Mike

µß
Since it costs 1.66¢ to produce a penny, my 2¢ worth is really 3.32¢ worth.  That 3.32¢ is my own and not the 3.32¢ of DIRECTV, Dish, or anyone else for that matter.


#53 OFFLINE   mjbvideo

mjbvideo

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 64 posts
Joined: Jan 15, 2006

Posted 22 May 2010 - 11:06 AM

Reading the list jogged my memory. I recently had a show 'run away' and record for hours upon hours.
I appreciate his effort. Let's push DirecTV to continuously improve but focus on fixing the basic issues that affect a lot of people.
As for me, I don't report my bugs as much because I have consumed too much DTV Kool Aid and I'm just tired of it. I've had their techs out here to look at my system and they tweak everything but the DVR's all continue to have the same issues.
So the HR24 is the latest savior. How is that going to help us slugs who are stuck with the older machines?
IMHO, I think they need a fresh set of eyes in their software design group. Get the software "A-Team" in their and optimize the code so that is works well in all their DVR's.

#54 OFFLINE   Syzygy

Syzygy

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 1,306 posts
Joined: Dec 05, 2005

Posted 22 May 2010 - 11:22 AM

There is only one receiver that has this, "THAT IS NOT" related to the SAT feed transcoding and Dolby. I'm working with El Segundo directly over this one and it is software related.

ALL MPEG-4 receivers are affected by the transcoding issues/problems, so this isn't a DVR issue.

I'm not sure I understand you. Are you saying that, while there still transcoding problems that affect all MPEG-4 receivers, there is one particular receiver type that has audio dropouts caused by its own firmware? If so, pray tell, what model is that?
Frank TiVangelist since Aug 1999, HD since Dec 2002, DirecTV since Aug 2004, DECA/MRV since Nov 2010
HR24-100 > HDMI > Pio 5020FD plasma
HR24-100 > HDMI > Sony KV30HS420 tube

DirecTV & Dish HD Channel Spreadsheet
DirecTV & Dish HD Channels Listed by Package

#55 ONLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 42,197 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 22 May 2010 - 11:40 AM

I'm not sure I understand you. Are you saying that, while there still transcoding problems that affect all MPEG-4 receivers, there is one particular receiver type that has audio dropouts caused by its own firmware? If so, pray tell, what model is that?

There is a system wide problem with Dolby in some MPEG-4 encoders. This has been an ongoing problem. First it was the lipsync problems, then the brripps ["fix one"] and now they mute them [fix 2]. This still isn't "fixed", as I see it. Some AVRs don't handle this very well, while other aren't as bad. Fixing the loss of DD5.1 IMO is the real fix.
As to what I'm involved with, I'll leave that for those that have read my posts.
Not everything is in the DVR.

Now to show [I hope] that I don't have rose colored glasses as I look at DirecTV:
From being here and helping others for several years, there is a design flaw in the DVRs with the use of a very crappy power supply. They are so sensitive to voltage changes or noise on the AC lines that this causes all sorts of receiver issues. A customer shouldn't need to buy & use a UPS, under normal use/conditions, to have their receiver work.
They should work with anything from 110 to 126 volts, but don't always.
Turning on a dimmer switch or a florescent light shouldn't cause a 771 error.

"Blank recordings" may not be in the DVR, but in the dish to receiver link, since the receiver may send the tune signal and if the dish doesn't tune, then the DVR records "nothing". Had you been watching this live, you'd see the 771 message, but this doesn't get recorded, so later you have no idea this was the cause.

Yes there are things wrong. Some are in the DVR, some at the SAT/uplink end, and some may simply come down to environment issues like a LCD display interfering with the IR signal.
A.K.A VOS

#56 OFFLINE   Syzygy

Syzygy

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 1,306 posts
Joined: Dec 05, 2005

Posted 22 May 2010 - 11:49 AM

One thing I'm not sure I understand is what it means to have to wait a full three seconds to repeat a button press. :scratchin

I don’t even understand what having to wait three full seconds before repeating a button press. I’ve never seen that...

[Syzygy, in Design Errors] • The remote waits a full 3 seconds before allowing a key to repeat.
[Syzygy, in another thread] And I suppose the remote still makes you hold down a key 3 seconds before it repeats?

It's different each time Syzygy posts it so I'm unclear as to what it means.

Just for MicroBeta, I'm revising the Design Error item to say:

• The remote will not repeat automatically unless you hold down a key for a full 3 seconds.

I hope that's clear. ;)
Frank TiVangelist since Aug 1999, HD since Dec 2002, DirecTV since Aug 2004, DECA/MRV since Nov 2010
HR24-100 > HDMI > Pio 5020FD plasma
HR24-100 > HDMI > Sony KV30HS420 tube

DirecTV & Dish HD Channel Spreadsheet
DirecTV & Dish HD Channels Listed by Package

#57 ONLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 23,033 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 22 May 2010 - 12:22 PM

Just for MicroBeta, I'm revising the Design Error item to say:

• The remote will not repeat automatically unless you hold down a key for a full 3 seconds.

I hope that's clear. ;)


Not to me, it isn't. What are you trying to do when you have to press the key for a full 3 seconds? I'm not busting chops, I truly don't understand what you are trying to say.

Rich

#58 OFFLINE   Syzygy

Syzygy

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 1,306 posts
Joined: Dec 05, 2005

Posted 22 May 2010 - 12:29 PM

Trying to slide up/down in a list, a menu, or the Guide, one item at a time.

Edited by Syzygy, 22 May 2010 - 12:35 PM.

Frank TiVangelist since Aug 1999, HD since Dec 2002, DirecTV since Aug 2004, DECA/MRV since Nov 2010
HR24-100 > HDMI > Pio 5020FD plasma
HR24-100 > HDMI > Sony KV30HS420 tube

DirecTV & Dish HD Channel Spreadsheet
DirecTV & Dish HD Channels Listed by Package

#59 ONLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 23,033 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 22 May 2010 - 12:36 PM

Trying to slide up/down a list or a menu, one item at a time.


So, for instance, you're on the Playlist and you can't go from one program to another without waiting three seconds or more?

Rich

#60 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

Alan Gordon

    Chancellor

  • Registered
  • 9,081 posts
  • LocationDawson, Georgia
Joined: Jun 07, 2004

Posted 22 May 2010 - 12:44 PM

I hope that's clear. ;)


It is for me, and while I was wrong about the issue you were referring to, I can state that I've noticed this as well...

~Alan

#61 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

Mike Bertelson

    6EQUJ5 WOW!

  • Moderators
  • 13,996 posts
Joined: Jan 24, 2007

Posted 22 May 2010 - 12:56 PM

Just for MicroBeta, I'm revising the Design Error item to say:

• The remote will not repeat automatically unless you hold down a key for a full 3 seconds.

I hope that's clear. ;)


Trying to slide up/down in a list, a menu, or the Guide, one item at a time.

Ok.

I've never seen it do that. I just tried in the playlist and guide on four different receivers and it does not do that. AFAIK, it never has.

For me it takes about a second, and I'm pretty sure the delay is to make sure you don't start scrolling when you don't intend to.

AAMOF, it's really darned quick on my HR24 and H24. :D

I almost exclusively use a universal remote but I used the DirecTV remote for this test.

Mike

µß
Since it costs 1.66¢ to produce a penny, my 2¢ worth is really 3.32¢ worth.  That 3.32¢ is my own and not the 3.32¢ of DIRECTV, Dish, or anyone else for that matter.


#62 OFFLINE   Jason Whiddon

Jason Whiddon

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,282 posts
Joined: Aug 17, 2006

Posted 22 May 2010 - 12:59 PM

HR24 that I have now handles a few of those issues.
65" VT50 / BDP-S7200
Denon AVR-4520CI
Klipsch RF82 II and RC62 II / Hsu VTF-15H (2)
Directv HR44-200 / HR24-500

 


#63 ONLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 23,033 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 22 May 2010 - 01:49 PM

Ok.

I've never seen it do that. I just tried in the playlist and guide on four different receivers and it does not do that. AFAIK, it never has.


I tried it too and I agree with you. I'll have to try my son's 21-200 and see what his does. I know the 21-700 is slower than my 20-700s in every way and I'd expect that to be the same in comparison to the 20-700 when scrolling, but I'll try the one that I have left.

For me it takes about a second, and I'm pretty sure the delay is to make sure you don't start scrolling when you don't intend to.


It's about the same delay on my 20-700s.

Rich

#64 OFFLINE   Syzygy

Syzygy

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 1,306 posts
Joined: Dec 05, 2005

Posted 22 May 2010 - 02:22 PM

• The remote will not repeat automatically unless you hold down a key for a full 3 seconds.

So, for instance, you're on the Playlist and you can't go from one program to another without waiting three seconds or more?

No, I can't go from the 2nd program to the 3rd, and so on, without waiting three seconds or more between the 1st and the 2nd.

I've never seen it do that... For me it takes about a second, and I'm pretty sure the delay is to make sure you don't start scrolling when you don't intend to... I used the DirecTV remote for this test.

I tried it too and I agree with you...

It looks to me like I have a 3-second-delay remote and you guys all have a one-second-delay remote. Maybe I'll call D* about getting a new remote.
Frank TiVangelist since Aug 1999, HD since Dec 2002, DirecTV since Aug 2004, DECA/MRV since Nov 2010
HR24-100 > HDMI > Pio 5020FD plasma
HR24-100 > HDMI > Sony KV30HS420 tube

DirecTV & Dish HD Channel Spreadsheet
DirecTV & Dish HD Channels Listed by Package

#65 ONLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 42,197 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 22 May 2010 - 02:28 PM

No, I can't go from the 2nd program to the 3rd, and so on, without waiting three seconds or more between the 1st and the 2nd.


It looks to me like I have a 3-second-delay remote and you guys all have a one-second-delay remote. Maybe I'll call D* about getting a new remote.

HR20 & stock remote here with no problems. press and hold takes "maybe" a sec before it kicks in.
A.K.A VOS

#66 OFFLINE   bonscott87

bonscott87

    Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07

  • Registered
  • 9,809 posts
Joined: Jan 21, 2003

Posted 22 May 2010 - 04:32 PM

It looks to me like I have a 3-second-delay remote and you guys all have a one-second-delay remote. Maybe I'll call D* about getting a new remote.


How about a new receiver? May solve a lot of your issues.

#67 OFFLINE   sigma1914

sigma1914

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 14,407 posts
  • LocationAllen, TX
Joined: Sep 05, 2006

Posted 22 May 2010 - 04:47 PM

How about a new receiver? May solve a lot of your issues.


Why would he finally listen? :lol:
If you stop responding to them or put them on ignore, then eventually they'll go away.

#68 OFFLINE   inkahauts

inkahauts

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 18,075 posts
Joined: Nov 13, 2006

Posted 22 May 2010 - 08:49 PM

The criticism of your post is IMO, baffling, and I appreciate your effort. I don't understand the need to 'defend the honor' of a DVR....it's not like you're disrespecting a loved hometown sports hero, or 'Iron Man' fer cryin' out loud.

For those of us that are new to the HR2X (myself included) it's reassuring to see that a problem I might have experienced is not one that is unit specific, thus requiring a call to DTV.

Thank you.


I have noted that some of his points I agree with, but others I don't. It's not about defending the hr's its about explain to people that he has an unusual amount of issues, and there is something else going on with his setup that needs to get fixed to get rid of the biggest issues. He is stating it like these are all full system wide issues that everyone is seeing, and thats just not true.

He also makes it sound like we all want the dvrs to work the way he prefers... With all do respect, thats just not true.

He wants a tivo, period... thats fine, but to say they are bad because they don't work like a tivo is almost insulting to me, cause I hate tivos, and don't ever want one (unless they make a LOT of changes) in my system again.

I have personally tried to replicate many of his issues, and can't do it, across multiple receivers too....

Other issues he notes, I can easily replicate, and have noted in various ways over the past as well....

#69 OFFLINE   Doug Brott

Doug Brott

    Lifetime Achiever

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 28,932 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles
Joined: Jul 12, 2006

Posted 22 May 2010 - 11:08 PM

• Video may freeze for a few seconds while the audio continues normally.


This is actually a feature .. Due to the way MPEG4 is decoded, Audio is available much more quickly after a trick play .. syncing up so to speak. There are multiple ways to deal with the problem, but one good way is to have a frozen video frame (which is ahead of current position) sit and wait while the audio actually catches up.

Certainly the lip sync issue was worse than waiting for a few seconds (really 1 to 3 at most) to catch up is not a problem. This is something that really only happens during trick play functions. If you do a lot of skipping around, you will see this more than those that don't.

As for many of your other "video errors" .. I'm sorry, it just sounds like you either have a dish alignment problem or (more likely) a hard drive that is just not working perfectly. Have you run the disk surface scans? That might actually clear up some of the pixelation/stuttering that you are having. First I'd say push and hold the {INFO} button .. then run the system tests. This should let you know if the dish alignment is too far off or if perhaps there are other things going on.
DIRECTV Firmware Monitor - iPhone - Android - HTML5

DIRECTV employee since August 2011.
All comments are my own. Unless specifically stated, my views do NOT represent the views of DIRECTV

#70 OFFLINE   OverThereTooMuch

OverThereTooMuch

    Almost a new member

  • Registered
  • 427 posts
Joined: Aug 18, 2006

Posted 23 May 2010 - 12:21 AM

I'm sorry, but some of the criticism is valid.

Some, yes. Most, no.

I am very glad that this forum software gives people the ability to ignore users.

#71 OFFLINE   Bruce M.

Bruce M.

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 103 posts
Joined: Oct 31, 2009

Posted 23 May 2010 - 01:09 AM

What is the difference betwen a "bug" and a "design deficiency" and why should it matter to a consumer? I get "design decision". But I don't get why "design deficiency" is in any way extenuating or mitigating.

I switched from Tivo to DTV awhile back, and you know what I miss the most? Strange enough, it's one push slo-mo. I use a universal remote as well, but can't figure out how to program it to a one push.

#72 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

hdtvfan0001

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 32,430 posts
Joined: Jul 28, 2004

Posted 23 May 2010 - 03:19 AM

What is the difference between a "bug" and a "design deficiency" and why should it matter to a consumer? I get "design decision". But I don't get why "design deficiency" is in any way extenuating or mitigating.

A bug is a flaw for a capability or feature, compared to how it is designed to actually function.

A design deficiency is a subjective (aka opinion) view on how a feature or capability should work, as opposed to how it actually does function.
DBSTalk CHAT ROOM MODERATOR
DirecTV Customer Since 1996

#73 OFFLINE   Syzygy

Syzygy

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 1,306 posts
Joined: Dec 05, 2005

Posted 23 May 2010 - 07:15 AM

A design deficiency is a subjective (aka opinion) view on how a feature or capability should work.

Looking at a few of my "Design Errors", I suppose it's only my (invalid) opinion that a designer should never have said or thought anything like:

"For an option in the Guide and the Playlist, let's call filtering 'Sorting' and be sure to drop most of the information from the so-called 'sorted' list. All a user should see is the program title, the channel number and the duration."

"Menus and lists don't need to remember their last position."

"It's OK for the Exit key to dismiss the program being watched if the screen manages to clear itself first, or even if the screen is about to clear itself."

It's my belief that these are objectively bad ideas.
Frank TiVangelist since Aug 1999, HD since Dec 2002, DirecTV since Aug 2004, DECA/MRV since Nov 2010
HR24-100 > HDMI > Pio 5020FD plasma
HR24-100 > HDMI > Sony KV30HS420 tube

DirecTV & Dish HD Channel Spreadsheet
DirecTV & Dish HD Channels Listed by Package

#74 OFFLINE   tonyd79

tonyd79

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 12,952 posts
  • LocationColumbia, MD
Joined: Jul 24, 2006

Posted 23 May 2010 - 07:24 AM

"It's OK for the Exit key to dismiss the program being watched if the screen manages to clear itself first, or even if the screen is about to clear itself."

It's my belief that these are objectively bad ideas.


Love the last sentence. It is my belief that these are objectively bad ideas. Guess you don't see the irony.

BTW, the Exit key functionality is one that I get frustrated with my Fios DVR because it does not work that way. (well, it does when you are in an on demand program but not a recorded one, but that is another story). I do believe there was a large thread on the EXIT key functionality a while back, so I guess it is not so dropdead obvious on how it should behave.
LR: HR34-700, H24-200, Fios DVR, BD350 Blu Ray, Roku Netflix Player, Chromecast, Sony 65w850 TV
BR: HR21-200, Viso 32LX, DB350 Blu Ray
Dish: Slimline, SWM8
Other: genieGo

#75 OFFLINE   JBernardK

JBernardK

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 174 posts
Joined: Aug 16, 2006

Posted 23 May 2010 - 07:49 AM

Syzygy, thanks for your post. It is most helpful to those of us that are considering going to (or coming back to) Directv. It does not really matter if something is a bug or a design defect. If it is something that is important to an individual it can be used to help with a decision. There are people here that have been defending the HR's, for whatever reason, since they were first released. They can safely be ignored by those looking to make and informed decision.




Protected By... spam firewall...And...