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Guest Message by DevFuse

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A 2010 compendium of D* DVR bugs


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194 replies to this topic

#61 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 12:56 PM

Just for MicroBeta, I'm revising the Design Error item to say:

• The remote will not repeat automatically unless you hold down a key for a full 3 seconds.

I hope that's clear. ;)


Trying to slide up/down in a list, a menu, or the Guide, one item at a time.

Ok.

I've never seen it do that. I just tried in the playlist and guide on four different receivers and it does not do that. AFAIK, it never has.

For me it takes about a second, and I'm pretty sure the delay is to make sure you don't start scrolling when you don't intend to.

AAMOF, it's really darned quick on my HR24 and H24. :D

I almost exclusively use a universal remote but I used the DirecTV remote for this test.

Mike

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#62 OFFLINE   Jason Whiddon

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 12:59 PM

HR24 that I have now handles a few of those issues.
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#63 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 01:49 PM

Ok.

I've never seen it do that. I just tried in the playlist and guide on four different receivers and it does not do that. AFAIK, it never has.


I tried it too and I agree with you. I'll have to try my son's 21-200 and see what his does. I know the 21-700 is slower than my 20-700s in every way and I'd expect that to be the same in comparison to the 20-700 when scrolling, but I'll try the one that I have left.

For me it takes about a second, and I'm pretty sure the delay is to make sure you don't start scrolling when you don't intend to.


It's about the same delay on my 20-700s.

Rich

#64 OFFLINE   Syzygy

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 02:22 PM

• The remote will not repeat automatically unless you hold down a key for a full 3 seconds.

So, for instance, you're on the Playlist and you can't go from one program to another without waiting three seconds or more?

No, I can't go from the 2nd program to the 3rd, and so on, without waiting three seconds or more between the 1st and the 2nd.

I've never seen it do that... For me it takes about a second, and I'm pretty sure the delay is to make sure you don't start scrolling when you don't intend to... I used the DirecTV remote for this test.

I tried it too and I agree with you...

It looks to me like I have a 3-second-delay remote and you guys all have a one-second-delay remote. Maybe I'll call D* about getting a new remote.
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#65 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 02:28 PM

No, I can't go from the 2nd program to the 3rd, and so on, without waiting three seconds or more between the 1st and the 2nd.


It looks to me like I have a 3-second-delay remote and you guys all have a one-second-delay remote. Maybe I'll call D* about getting a new remote.

HR20 & stock remote here with no problems. press and hold takes "maybe" a sec before it kicks in.
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#66 OFFLINE   bonscott87

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 04:32 PM

It looks to me like I have a 3-second-delay remote and you guys all have a one-second-delay remote. Maybe I'll call D* about getting a new remote.


How about a new receiver? May solve a lot of your issues.

#67 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 04:47 PM

How about a new receiver? May solve a lot of your issues.


Why would he finally listen? :lol:
If you stop responding to them or put them on ignore, then eventually they'll go away.

#68 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 08:49 PM

The criticism of your post is IMO, baffling, and I appreciate your effort. I don't understand the need to 'defend the honor' of a DVR....it's not like you're disrespecting a loved hometown sports hero, or 'Iron Man' fer cryin' out loud.

For those of us that are new to the HR2X (myself included) it's reassuring to see that a problem I might have experienced is not one that is unit specific, thus requiring a call to DTV.

Thank you.


I have noted that some of his points I agree with, but others I don't. It's not about defending the hr's its about explain to people that he has an unusual amount of issues, and there is something else going on with his setup that needs to get fixed to get rid of the biggest issues. He is stating it like these are all full system wide issues that everyone is seeing, and thats just not true.

He also makes it sound like we all want the dvrs to work the way he prefers... With all do respect, thats just not true.

He wants a tivo, period... thats fine, but to say they are bad because they don't work like a tivo is almost insulting to me, cause I hate tivos, and don't ever want one (unless they make a LOT of changes) in my system again.

I have personally tried to replicate many of his issues, and can't do it, across multiple receivers too....

Other issues he notes, I can easily replicate, and have noted in various ways over the past as well....

#69 OFFLINE   Doug Brott

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 11:08 PM

• Video may freeze for a few seconds while the audio continues normally.


This is actually a feature .. Due to the way MPEG4 is decoded, Audio is available much more quickly after a trick play .. syncing up so to speak. There are multiple ways to deal with the problem, but one good way is to have a frozen video frame (which is ahead of current position) sit and wait while the audio actually catches up.

Certainly the lip sync issue was worse than waiting for a few seconds (really 1 to 3 at most) to catch up is not a problem. This is something that really only happens during trick play functions. If you do a lot of skipping around, you will see this more than those that don't.

As for many of your other "video errors" .. I'm sorry, it just sounds like you either have a dish alignment problem or (more likely) a hard drive that is just not working perfectly. Have you run the disk surface scans? That might actually clear up some of the pixelation/stuttering that you are having. First I'd say push and hold the {INFO} button .. then run the system tests. This should let you know if the dish alignment is too far off or if perhaps there are other things going on.
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#70 OFFLINE   OverThereTooMuch

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 12:21 AM

I'm sorry, but some of the criticism is valid.

Some, yes. Most, no.

I am very glad that this forum software gives people the ability to ignore users.

#71 OFFLINE   Bruce M.

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 01:09 AM

What is the difference betwen a "bug" and a "design deficiency" and why should it matter to a consumer? I get "design decision". But I don't get why "design deficiency" is in any way extenuating or mitigating.

I switched from Tivo to DTV awhile back, and you know what I miss the most? Strange enough, it's one push slo-mo. I use a universal remote as well, but can't figure out how to program it to a one push.

#72 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 03:19 AM

What is the difference between a "bug" and a "design deficiency" and why should it matter to a consumer? I get "design decision". But I don't get why "design deficiency" is in any way extenuating or mitigating.

A bug is a flaw for a capability or feature, compared to how it is designed to actually function.

A design deficiency is a subjective (aka opinion) view on how a feature or capability should work, as opposed to how it actually does function.
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#73 OFFLINE   Syzygy

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 07:15 AM

A design deficiency is a subjective (aka opinion) view on how a feature or capability should work.

Looking at a few of my "Design Errors", I suppose it's only my (invalid) opinion that a designer should never have said or thought anything like:

"For an option in the Guide and the Playlist, let's call filtering 'Sorting' and be sure to drop most of the information from the so-called 'sorted' list. All a user should see is the program title, the channel number and the duration."

"Menus and lists don't need to remember their last position."

"It's OK for the Exit key to dismiss the program being watched if the screen manages to clear itself first, or even if the screen is about to clear itself."

It's my belief that these are objectively bad ideas.
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#74 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 07:24 AM

"It's OK for the Exit key to dismiss the program being watched if the screen manages to clear itself first, or even if the screen is about to clear itself."

It's my belief that these are objectively bad ideas.


Love the last sentence. It is my belief that these are objectively bad ideas. Guess you don't see the irony.

BTW, the Exit key functionality is one that I get frustrated with my Fios DVR because it does not work that way. (well, it does when you are in an on demand program but not a recorded one, but that is another story). I do believe there was a large thread on the EXIT key functionality a while back, so I guess it is not so dropdead obvious on how it should behave.
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#75 OFFLINE   JBernardK

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 07:49 AM

Syzygy, thanks for your post. It is most helpful to those of us that are considering going to (or coming back to) Directv. It does not really matter if something is a bug or a design defect. If it is something that is important to an individual it can be used to help with a decision. There are people here that have been defending the HR's, for whatever reason, since they were first released. They can safely be ignored by those looking to make and informed decision.

#76 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 07:56 AM

Syzygy, thanks for your post. It is most helpful to those of us that are considering going to (or coming back to) Directv. It does not really matter if something is a bug or a design defect. If it is something that is important to an individual it can be used to help with a decision. There are people here that have been defending the HR's, for whatever reason, since they were first released. They can safely be ignored by those looking to make and informed decision.

Not defending only suggesting not all on this list would be a problem for someone looking into getting one of the HR2x.
As bad as "the fans" could skew the results, this could be skewed the other way.
"perhaps" the truth is somewhere in between.
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#77 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 07:59 AM

...There are people here that have been defending the HR's, for whatever reason, since they were first released. They can safely be ignored by those looking to make and informed decision.


So, ignore those who defend/support the HR2x, but show praise, listen to opposing views and accept these flawed lists to make an informed decision? :rolleyes: Seems a bit one sided.
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#78 OFFLINE   bonscott87

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 08:14 AM

This is actually a feature .. Due to the way MPEG4 is decoded, Audio is available much more quickly after a trick play .. syncing up so to speak. There are multiple ways to deal with the problem, but one good way is to have a frozen video frame (which is ahead of current position) sit and wait while the audio actually catches up.


Actually it's not just an MPEG4 thing. My Windows 7 Media Center DVR on my HTPC does the same thing. When you come out of a FFW a lot of times video will be frozen for 1-2 seconds while the audio "catches" up so that it's synced up properly. And this is MPEG2 OTA HD.

It's a design decision that some DVR manufacturers make to prevent lip sync issues.

#79 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 08:57 AM

Syzygy, thanks for your post. It is most helpful to those of us that are considering going to (or coming back to) Directv. It does not really matter if something is a bug or a design defect. If it is something that is important to an individual it can be used to help with a decision. There are people here that have been defending the HR's, for whatever reason, since they were first released. They can safely be ignored by those looking to make and informed decision.


If you think I'm a fan, consider this: D* has models that end in 100. That denotes the manufacturer. I wouldn't have one in my home. I just sent two 21-700s back to D* for no reason other than they were so much slower than my 20-700s. In fact, the only HR that I will accept from D* is the 20-700. They have been offering me, at no cost, HRs for about a year and I haven't accepted their offer because I have enough 20-700s to cover replacements and back up all my recordings.

I'll admit to being a fan of the 20-700s, but not the rest of the HR lineup. I haven't tried a 24-500, so I can't comment on that.

Having said all that, I can't agree with the TS about all the complaints he has about the HRs, but I'm only using my 20-700s as a benchmark unit. If he has 20-700s that are doing all the things he's complaining about, he's got a problem with the feeds to those 20-700s. Mine are pretty trouble-free.

Rich

#80 OFFLINE   Syzygy

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 09:30 AM

Rich, who is "the TS"?
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