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A 2010 compendium of D* DVR bugs


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194 replies to this topic

#141 OFFLINE   Syzygy

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 04:19 PM

When using ISLANDERS - SPORTS - HOCKEY as an autorecord, it will always record the replay on 215 the next morning rather than the live showing on 603 (or 777 or whatever) the night before...

If you submit, or have submitted, a bug report (a DirecTV "issue") that says exactly that, I can point to it when I add this bug to my list.
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#142 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 05:07 PM

If you submit, or have submitted, a bug report (a DirecTV "issue") that says exactly that, I can point to it when I add this bug to my list.

He has several threads on the subject.

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#143 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 09:21 AM

If you submit, or have submitted, a bug report (a DirecTV "issue") that says exactly that, I can point to it when I add this bug to my list.


Here's something that annoys me when I watch a fight. The 30 second slip (which I prefer over the 30 second skip) is not 30 seconds long. More like 33,34, or 35 seconds. This overrun is most noticeable between rounds. I was just watching a couple fights yesterday and every pause between rounds I hit the slip button twice and always ended up being several seconds into the next round.

Just to make sure I was seeing the HR screw up, I used an analog stopwatch (an expensive one) and a digital stopwatch (cheap, but serviceable) and both agreed with the HBO digital counters. I was going from the bell ending the round to the bell starting the next round and the overrun happened every time. Annoying, but not to the point where I want to make a real big issue about it.

Rich

#144 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 09:29 AM

Here's something that annoys me when I watch a fight. The 30 second slip (which I prefer over the 30 second skip) is not 30 seconds long. More like 33,34, or 35 seconds. This overrun is most noticeable between rounds. I was just watching a couple fights yesterday and every pause between rounds I hit the slip button twice and always ended up being several seconds into the next round.

Just to make sure I was seeing the HR screw up, I used an analog stopwatch (an expensive one) and a digital stopwatch (cheap, but serviceable) and both agreed with the HBO digital counters. I was going from the bell ending the round to the bell starting the next round and the overrun happened every time. Annoying, but not to the point where I want to make a real big issue about it.

Rich

Isn't that time span dependent on what type of material you slipping/skipping through?

Mike

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#145 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 09:39 AM

Isn't that time span dependent on what type of material you slipping/skipping through?

Mike


I have no idea. All it was slipping thru was a bunch of talking heads. Gotta say that question hit me unexpectedly. Have absolutely no idea. Let me check...hmm, have no idea how to check it. The fights had a digital clock on the screen between rounds and during rounds and that's what I did the comparison with the stopwatches on. The stopwatches agreed with the on-screen clock and the bell ringer.

Rich

#146 OFFLINE   drpjr

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 10:45 AM

Isn't that time span dependent on what type of material you slipping/skipping through?

Mike


What "types" of material do you mean? OTA vs D or live buffer vs recorded buffer or live event vs video vs film? I thought 30sec of buffer = 30sec of programing no matter what the source or type. This must be a very simple concept because I'm really confused from over thinking it. :confused::lol:
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#147 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 10:49 AM

I tested :30 second skip on my HR24-500 via an on screen timer...it was spot on.
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#148 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 10:59 AM

What "types" of material do you mean? OTA vs D or live buffer vs recorded buffer or live event vs video vs film? I thought 30sec of buffer = 30sec of programing no matter what the source or type. This must be a very simple concept because I'm really confused from over thinking it. :confused::lol:

720p vs 1080p, Golf vs Action Movie, etc

When I test it with HDNet Test Pattern it ranges 29-35 seconds. Each time I've tested it, it us usually pretty consistent at that time. I mean it's usually within 1-3 sec each time. If I get 30 seconds then each time I'll get ± 1ish seconds. The next time I test it I'll get say 33 seconds with about the same tolerance.

I get about the same response from the Replay button.

I've tested this with both my universal remote and the DirecTV remote to make sure they're the same and it always comes out equal (as expected), so now I only use my universal.

I suspect it's related to the type of material and what else the system is doing at that point in time. Of course that's only a guess.

At any rate, I'm not sure it's possible to make it exactly 30 seconds all the time...I've been wrong before. :grin:

Mike

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#149 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 01:53 PM

720p vs 1080p, Golf vs Action Movie, etc

When I test it with HDNet Test Pattern it ranges 29-35 seconds. Each time I've tested it, it us usually pretty consistent at that time. I mean it's usually within 1-3 sec each time. If I get 30 seconds then each time I'll get ± 1ish seconds. The next time I test it I'll get say 33 seconds with about the same tolerance.

I get about the same response from the Replay button.

I've tested this with both my universal remote and the DirecTV remote to make sure they're the same and it always comes out equal (as expected), so now I only use my universal.

I suspect it's related to the type of material and what else the system is doing at that point in time. Of course that's only a guess.

At any rate, I'm not sure it's possible to make it exactly 30 seconds all the time...I've been wrong before. :grin:

Mike


And yet, VCRs had it down pat. At least the Sonys did. I watched a lot of fights and when the bell rang at the end of a round, you hit the skip button however many times for one minute and it coincided with the next round's beginning bell. Not a big deal, only time I notice it is on fights, but I've never seen a post about it. Curious.

Rich

#150 ONLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 02:02 PM

VCRs had basically linear recording. 30 seconds always equalled the same number of feet of tape. With MPEG encoding, 30 seconds could be 100k of data or 100MB, and the encoding is variable.
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#151 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 02:33 PM

VCRs had basically linear recording. 30 seconds always equalled the same number of feet of tape. With MPEG encoding, 30 seconds could be 100k of data or 100MB, and the encoding is variable.


Well, let me go find out what encoding means in this context...

Rich

#152 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 02:50 PM

Well, let me go find out what encoding means in this context...

Shows with scenes that change rapidly from frame to frame can not be compressed as efficiently as news broadcasts, e.g., where the "talking heads" sit in front of a desk and a static background. If the camera doesn't move, the desk and background can be "re-used" for several frames, and only the broadcasters need to be recompressed every frame because they're moving.

Much like a noisy, grainy photograrph taken at high ISO will save as a larger jpeg than the same scene taken with flash at a lower ISO that exhibits less "grain". Large patches of solid color, like blue skies, compress very efficiently.
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#153 OFFLINE   Syzygy

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 05:22 PM

I tested :30 second skip on my HR24-500 via an on screen timer...it was spot on.

I switched to 30SLIP for testing and found that "30-second slip" always slips between 32 and 33 seconds. I used the HDNet test pattern [HD] to time it.
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#154 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 06:50 PM

And yet, VCRs had it down pat. At least the Sonys did. I watched a lot of fights and when the bell rang at the end of a round, you hit the skip button however many times for one minute and it coincided with the next round's beginning bell. Not a big deal, only time I notice it is on fights, but I've never seen a post about it. Curious.

Rich

30 seconds of tape in an exact amount of tape. It’s linear and very easy to do. However, 30 seconds of data is subject to many different variables.

Now my old Panasonic VCR would mark the start and end of each set of commercials, and automatically skip them when you started watching the program. Now that would be cool. :D

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#155 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 06:55 PM

[...]Now my old Panasonic VCR would mark the start and end of each set of commercials, and automatically skip them when you started watching the program. Now that would be cool. :D [...]

The Replay DVR did that at first and really ticked off the studios. I think if they auto-FF'd instead of auto-skipped, they might have had less resistance, since that what users do anyway.
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#156 OFFLINE   drpjr

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 08:26 PM

I suspect it's related to the type of material and what else the system is doing at that point in time. Of course that's only a guess.

At any rate, I'm not sure it's possible to make it exactly 30 seconds all the time...I've been wrong before. :grin:

Mike

I trust your guess as I am in the deep end of the pool in this discussion.:lol:

VCRs had basically linear recording. 30 seconds always equalled the same number of feet of tape. With MPEG encoding, 30 seconds could be 100k of data or 100MB, and the encoding is variable.


Feet of tape or frames per second , isn't it a fixed amount? Ex: If something is broadcast in 720p/30fps every 900 frames should be 30sec no matter how much encoding was required for each frame or which 900 frames you choose. I guess my question is does the HDDVR count fps to skip/slip? And if it doesnt what does it use? I really find this interesting but am pretty much lost.:confused::lol:
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#157 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 03:17 AM

I trust your guess as I am in the deep end of the pool in this discussion.:lol:


Feet of tape or frames per second , isn't it a fixed amount? Ex: If something is broadcast in 720p/30fps every 900 frames should be 30sec no matter how much encoding was required for each frame or which 900 frames you choose. I guess my question is does the HDDVR count fps to skip/slip? And if it doesnt what does it use? I really find this interesting but am pretty much lost.:confused::lol:

Does a DVR track frame rates or does it treat it simply as data?

In order to use fps, it would have to track frame rates as well as everything it does. Ok, I have know idea how to do that but I would think it would be much more difficult than simply treating a programs as a computer file.

Mike

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#158 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 08:15 AM

Shows with scenes that change rapidly from frame to frame can not be compressed as efficiently as news broadcasts, e.g., where the "talking heads" sit in front of a desk and a static background. If the camera doesn't move, the desk and background can be "re-used" for several frames, and only the broadcasters need to be recompressed every frame because they're moving.

Much like a noisy, grainy photograrph taken at high ISO will save as a larger jpeg than the same scene taken with flash at a lower ISO that exhibits less "grain". Large patches of solid color, like blue skies, compress very efficiently.


Thanx, Steve. What I was watching was the between rounds conversation between talking heads.

Rich

#159 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 08:21 AM

30 seconds of tape in an exact amount of tape. It’s linear and very easy to do. However, 30 seconds of data is subject to many different variables.

Now my old Panasonic VCR would mark the start and end of each set of commercials, and automatically skip them when you started watching the program. Now that would be cool. :D

Mike


I had one of those VCRs too. Didn't work very well, but a good idea that we'll never see implemented again. For obvious reasons.

By the way, think back to how precise the electronics were on your sub. My destroyer's electronics were so precise it amazed me. And that was a long time ago. And for you folks who might not believe it, we had digital electronics way back then. I'd love to get on one of the new destroyers and see what kind of goodies they have now. Must be mind blowing. And years ahead of what we see in stores today.

Rich

#160 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 08:26 AM

I trust your guess as I am in the deep end of the pool in this discussion.:lol:


Feet of tape or frames per second , isn't it a fixed amount? Ex: If something is broadcast in 720p/30fps every 900 frames should be 30sec no matter how much encoding was required for each frame or which 900 frames you choose. I guess my question is does the HDDVR count fps to skip/slip? And if it doesnt what does it use? I really find this interesting but am pretty much lost.:confused::lol:


Well, we're lost together. We can blow up a house in Berzerkistan from a console in California, but we can't measure 30 seconds accurately on a DVR? Oh well, I really didn't mean to start an argument, just commenting on an ongoing MINOR annoyance, but now I'm with you, befuddled again. :lol:

Rich




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