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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Question on cinema HD 24


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21 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Cavicchi

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 11:02 PM

My HDTV does not have cinema 24, so what affect would it have downloading a Cinema HD 24 movie? How would it differ from just HD 1080P?

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#2 OFFLINE   mdavej

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 08:09 AM

I don't understand your terminology, but I think you're talking about 24fps versus 30 or 60, right? All 1080P movies on DirecTV are 24fps. So that's what you'll get if you download one. However the DVR converts it to 1080i60 when you play it back to a display that doesn't support 1080P24, so you won't have any problems at all.

#3 OFFLINE   Cavicchi

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 08:39 AM

I don't understand your terminology, but I think you're talking about 24fps versus 30 or 60, right? All 1080P movies on DirecTV are 24fps. So that's what you'll get if you download one. However the DVR converts it to 1080i60 when you play it back to a display that doesn't support 1080P24, so you won't have any problems at all.

Ouch! So my Sony 1080P doesn't show it in 1080P because it's not 24fps?

Are you sure all 1080P movies are 24fps?

#4 OFFLINE   LarryFlowers

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 08:56 AM

Ouch! So my Sony 1080P doesn't show it in 1080P because it's not 24fps?

Are you sure all 1080P movies are 24fps?


Yes they are and Sony is notorious for its lack of support for the 1080p 24 format.
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#5 OFFLINE   Cavicchi

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 09:09 AM

Yes they are and Sony is notorious for its lack of support for the 1080p 24 format.


Well, my set is three years old and I am fairly certain they have some new units with 24fps and 120hz refresh rate, even one with 240hz refresh rate(I think).

I don't think any sets were 24fps three years ago. I assumed my 1080P Sony was good to go for all 1080P in the future, so this is quite a disappointment.

#6 OFFLINE   Avder

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 11:09 AM

Yes they are and Sony is notorious for its lack of support for the 1080p 24 format.


This is good to know, as I was looking at a Sony HDTV to purchase soon, and I would definately dislike if the 24fps progressive format wasnt supported.

#7 OFFLINE   mdavej

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 11:12 AM

I have a sony that can't do 1080p24 either. As you said, nobody did when we bought our sonys. But it's really not that big a deal. Pans where you'd notice it have just as much judder at 24p as when pulled down to 60i, maybe even more. It all gets deinterlaced back to 1080p anyway. My sony mops the floor with any 120Hz or 240Hz LCD I've ever seen, 24p or not. All my sources, from blu-ray to DirecTV, look gorgeous, and I've never had any judder really jump out at me. When I go to the movie theater, the judder at 24fps is pretty obvious. So all 24p buys you is that authentic film experience, warts and all.

Just google it. There are also many posts about it here too. Then sit back, forget about the numbers, and enjoy.

Edited by mdavej, 26 May 2010 - 11:18 AM.


#8 OFFLINE   mdavej

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 11:15 AM

This is good to know, as I was looking at a Sony HDTV to purchase soon, and I would definately dislike if the 24fps progressive format wasnt supported.

That's ancient history. Every sony, heck every HDTV, does 24p now. They've never been behind. Nobody did 24p over 4 years ago. Early adopters have sour grapes about this, but it's a non-issue today.

#9 OFFLINE   dcowboy7

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 12:13 PM

Ive got a sony 240hz....so much better than the 60hz.

With the "Motionflow" everything is smoother & cleaner especially sports/movies.

Could never go back to 60hz.

#10 OFFLINE   Cavicchi

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 12:14 PM

I have a sony that can't do 1080p24 either. As you said, nobody did when we bought our sonys. But it's really not that big a deal. Pans where you'd notice it have just as much judder at 24p as when pulled down to 60i, maybe even more. It all gets deinterlaced back to 1080p anyway. My sony mops the floor with any 120Hz or 240Hz LCD I've ever seen, 24p or not. All my sources, from blu-ray to DirecTV, look gorgeous, and I've never had any judder really jump out at me. When I go to the movie theater, the judder at 24fps is pretty obvious. So all 24p buys you is that authentic film experience, warts and all.

Just google it. There are also many posts about it here too. Then sit back, forget about the numbers, and enjoy.

Well, my Sony has, for a TV, excellent sound with front-mounted speakers, and from what I can see, these new units are so thin that I doubt they would sound as good as my Sony. In addition, the panel surrounding the screen, and the pedestal, are matte black finish as opposed to the new sets that have a glossy black finish.

But, I must admit the new 120 Hz refresh rate sounds very good, as does the 24fps. I know you said the 24fps is not an advantage, though I find that hard to believe, but the 120Hz refresh rate must be better for certain things like watching football, or sports in general, except perhaps for baseball.

#11 OFFLINE   mdavej

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 12:55 PM

The only reason for 120Hz is to get 5:5 pulldown for 24p (each frame is refreshed 5 times). Since all broadcasts are 60i max, all 120Hz does is double each frame. You don't gain anything as far as smoothing out motion. That's just marketing hype. Maybe some video games use 60p, in which case 120Hz would be an advantage. But I don't know if those exist. Higher rates will probably be better for 3D performance as well. So there's no doubt that faster is better. The question is will anyone actually see any difference. Given today's broadcast standards, the answer is no.

There are many 24p/60i comparisons out there that I've seen. So you can judge for yourself. I for one, am keeping my old set as long as I can, rather than spend thousands for negligible (if any) gain.

#12 OFFLINE   dcowboy7

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 01:30 PM

The 240hz defintely is smoother than 60hz.

On sports i would see a player trail on the 60 when they ran fast....now on the 240 i hardly get that at all.

+ on movies if u set the motionflow to high (there are multiple settings) u get almost a video look which is so cool & has that looking out a window look.

Anyone who think 60 is as good as 240 is on acid.

#13 OFFLINE   mdavej

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 01:50 PM

That's only because 60Hz LCD's suck to begin with and motion-flow or whatever other tricks are enhancing the 60i signal they're being fed. I understand that faster is better, no argument there. But I don't have an LCD (and I assume neither does the OP). So it makes no difference to us. If a 60Hz LCD really refreshed at 60Hz with zero trails, it would work fine, but they don't. So you definitely need higher rates on LCD's just to break even on a 60i signal. But all this is a moot point because such displays are obsolete anyway. My point is an old sony SXRD even at a lower refresh rate still displays 24p material (although pulled down and deinterlaced) just fine.

#14 OFFLINE   Cavicchi

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 03:46 PM

That's only because 60Hz LCD's suck to begin with and motion-flow or whatever other tricks are enhancing the 60i signal they're being fed. I understand that faster is better, no argument there. But I don't have an LCD (and I assume neither does the OP). So it makes no difference to us. If a 60Hz LCD really refreshed at 60Hz with zero trails, it would work fine, but they don't. So you definitely need higher rates on LCD's just to break even on a 60i signal. But all this is a moot point because such displays are obsolete anyway. My point is an old sony SXRD even at a lower refresh rate still displays 24p material (although pulled down and deinterlaced) just fine.


Actually I do have an LCD.

#15 OFFLINE   mdavej

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 07:06 PM

:o

#16 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 06:07 AM

Actually most of the Sony tv's in the last few years do support 24p...the A2000 is probably 4 or more years old now since it was actually a new model. It's replacement, the A3000, DOES support 24p just fine and I've had mine for about 3 years now...

#17 OFFLINE   Cavicchi

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 06:27 AM

Actually most of the Sony tv's in the last few years do support 24p...the A2000 is probably 4 or more years old now since it was actually a new model. It's replacement, the A3000, DOES support 24p just fine and I've had mine for about 3 years now...

Does it say that in the specifications? My set came out in 2006 and I purchased it in February of 2007. There is nothing about 24p, just that is is 1080P. I will download a 1080 24p movie and see if the resolution is 1080i or 1080p, though I expect it to be 1080i as that is what Sony customer service told me yesterday.

I don't know about all the new Sony TVs with 24p and 120Hz refresh rate, but the ones I did see have glass over the screen that creates an issue with glare/reflection under certain conditions. The bezel is high gloss, mine is flat/matte black. I don't know why Sony made these particular changes, but I do know I don't want glass over the screen on an LCD.

#18 OFFLINE   BattleZone

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 07:27 AM

Yes they are and Sony is notorious for its lack of support for the 1080p 24 format.


???

The only consumer TV released before the 2007 models that supported 1080/24p was a *single* high-end 2006 Pioneer. That one TV aside, NO manufacturer made TVs that supported 1080/24p. There weren't even any source devices that outputted in that format until HD-DVD was released in 2006.

Starting with 2007 models, ALL Sony TVs supported 1080/24p input signals, and several of the higher-end models had 120 Hz refresh and did 5:5 on 1080/24p material. The same is true for Samsung, also a leader in 24p support.

It took Panasonic, Toshiba, and Mitsubishi an extra year to support 1080/24p across the board (Panasonic had ZERO 24p support in their 2007 models), and while most 2008 Vizios supported 1080/24p inputs, none of their models, including the 120 Hz refresh rate models, did 5:5 with 24p content.

So... I don't get the "Sony is notorious" thing...

#19 OFFLINE   mdavej

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 08:10 AM

2006 is pretty much pre-24p for everybody, as others have said. HERE's a list of 24p displays. If yours isn't on the list, then you're out of luck. Have you tried a blu-ray player in 24p mode with your tv? That should also tell you if 24p works. But the chances are low.

As I said before, I don't have 24p either and I don't miss it. In the 10 years I've watched 24p DVD's at 60i, I didn't miss it. I still don't understand the big deal. I doubt you'll notice any difference. I watch movies all the time on my 24p set and my non-24p set and can't tell any difference. But if it's a big deal to you, any display you buy today will be 24p.

#20 OFFLINE   Cavicchi

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 05:34 PM

2006 is pretty much pre-24p for everybody, as others have said. HERE's a list of 24p displays. If yours isn't on the list, then you're out of luck. Have you tried a blu-ray player in 24p mode with your tv? That should also tell you if 24p works. But the chances are low.

As I said before, I don't have 24p either and I don't miss it. In the 10 years I've watched 24p DVD's at 60i, I didn't miss it. I still don't understand the big deal. I doubt you'll notice any difference. I watch movies all the time on my 24p set and my non-24p set and can't tell any difference. But if it's a big deal to you, any display you buy today will be 24p.

Well, I downloaded a free 1080P movie today and was surprised there was no picture, just sound. I called DTV and they had me change Resolution in Menu>HDMI>Resolution to uncheck 1080p option and movie played in 1080i. She said it wouldn't happen all the time but there is a software issue and the problem is not my TV that supports 1080p but not 24fps.

Have you or anyone else encountered this issue?




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