Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo

Deca vs Ethernet


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
405 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   jkirk

jkirk

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 83 posts
Joined: Jan 26, 2007

Posted 30 May 2010 - 03:28 PM

very sorry if this has been covered. I'm a happy ethernet mrv user at present. Does the deca set-up offer better performance?

Thanks in advance..

jk

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#2 OFFLINE   barryb

barryb

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 2,935 posts
Joined: Aug 26, 2007

Posted 30 May 2010 - 03:59 PM

very sorry if this has been covered. I'm a happy ethernet mrv user at present. Does the deca set-up offer better performance?

Thanks in advance..

jk



DECAs pump data an easy 2.5 times faster than the ethernet jack, so a big yes.
Barry
MY SETUP
You can usually find me helping out in the Quiet Room on Friday chat night.

#3 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

Mike Greer

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,612 posts
  • LocationSalt Lake City, Utah
Joined: Jan 20, 2004

Posted 30 May 2010 - 04:07 PM

So if I have 3 HR22s and 1 HR24 and use DECA adapters on the 3 HR22s the network performance increases how over just using Ethernet?

I didn't realize that the Ethernet ports on the HR22s were different than 'normal' ethernet connections.

#4 OFFLINE   ffemtreed

ffemtreed

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 958 posts
Joined: Jan 30, 2008

Posted 30 May 2010 - 04:14 PM

DECAs pump data an easy 2.5 times faster than the ethernet jack, so a big yes.


Really???? DECA has 2.5 times the bandwidth of a common full duplex Ethernet switch?

#5 OFFLINE   taylorhively

taylorhively

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 79 posts
Joined: Nov 29, 2006

Posted 30 May 2010 - 05:19 PM

You're still using the same actual Ethernet jack on the DVR with the DECA. You're just jacking the Ethernet in to the DECA (to SWiM) instead of in to the Ethernet switch. In both cases the performance can't exceed the Ethernet port's capability (100-T?)

The HR24 could be a different story using the built in networking over SWiM (no Ethernet.)
I also don't know if using the SWiM networking has better efficiency than a full duplex 100-T Ethernet switch.

Help me understand how DECA/SWiM is better? Thanks
5 DirecTV HD DVRs: HR20-700, HR20-700, HR22-100, HR21-100, HR24-500
60" Sony SXRB HD

#6 OFFLINE   barryb

barryb

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 2,935 posts
Joined: Aug 26, 2007

Posted 30 May 2010 - 05:44 PM

You're still using the same actual Ethernet jack on the DVR with the DECA. You're just jacking the Ethernet in to the DECA (to SWiM) instead of in to the Ethernet switch. In both cases the performance can't exceed the Ethernet port's capability (100-T?)

The HR24 could be a different story using the built in networking over SWiM (no Ethernet.)

I also don't know if using the SWiM networking has better efficiency than a full duplex 100-T Ethernet switch.

Help me understand how DECA/SWiM is better? Thanks


I am getting over 240mb/s with my H and HR24's. I agree that there would be a limiting factor with the non-24 units as it's using the built-in ethernet port.

Several things to consider here.

1) DECA/SWiM is the new supported setup with DirecTV.
2) DECA/SWiM eliminates dual COAX feeds.
3) DECA/SWiM eliminates running ethernet or wireless set ups

Bear in mind I was a hardened "you will have to take my ethernet from my cold dead hands" guy since we started testing MRV. I bit the bullet and had DirecTV come do the "whole home solution", because it was a great deal for the price.

My HR20-700's seem to be better at MRV. Could be because of less network traffic, could be that the DECAs just perform better with the (not x24) boxes.

I have three people here, so MRV gets a work out. We really don't watch any shows in realtime anymore, and probably 80% of what we watch is via MRV.

I have seen a notable decrease in jitters, dropouts and the like while using MRV in my home. Things like "trickplay" make it so I get confused (its happened more than once now) as to what DVR I am watching.

"is it live, or is it MRV?" I really can't tell the difference anymore. I most certainly did before the installers came out.
Barry
MY SETUP
You can usually find me helping out in the Quiet Room on Friday chat night.

#7 OFFLINE   taylorhively

taylorhively

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 79 posts
Joined: Nov 29, 2006

Posted 30 May 2010 - 08:11 PM

Hey, I don't disagree with going with DECA/SWiM. I see no down side and only the upside (except to avoid a $50-$150 of upgrade fees and 2 year commitment.)

I've done the DECA/SWiM upgrade too and except for the 4-5 second wait to start playback, once it's playing I see basically 0 difference from playing live. I'm personally thrilled with the performance and would recommend no one hesitate to do the upgrade just because.

If anything, one benefit to DECA is that it isolates the DVR network traffic to the SWiM network which seems optimized to support it.

I was just wondering where the 2.5x over Ethernet performance came from.
I think that's on the HR-24. I'm not sure it's physically possible on an HR22/21/20 using the actual Ethernet port.

With the increase of networked video devices like the Roku, XBox, etc, I'll still be including Ethernet to every TV location anyway. But at least it's not necessary for DirecTV.

That is unless those Ethernet ports are 1000-T and the DECA/SWiM is essentially a gigabit network. In that case Ethernet would be lower performance unless you also had a Gigabit switch?
I'm just talking out my rear-end here. Ignore me. :)

Edited by taylorhively, 30 May 2010 - 10:05 PM.

5 DirecTV HD DVRs: HR20-700, HR20-700, HR22-100, HR21-100, HR24-500
60" Sony SXRB HD

#8 OFFLINE   dsw2112

dsw2112

    Always Searching

  • Registered
  • 1,936 posts
Joined: Jun 12, 2009

Posted 30 May 2010 - 08:31 PM

I'm not sure it's physically possible on an HR22/21/20 using the actual Ethernet port.


You are correct. Speeds over 100Mbps are not possible on the above boxes (including the HR23.) This is due to the limitation of the internal network interface card (NIC.)
SL3-Slimline to SWM16 - DECA
HR34-700, HR24-500, & HR22-100

#9 OFFLINE   NR4P

NR4P

    Dad

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 4,857 posts
  • LocationSunny Florida
Joined: Jan 15, 2007

Posted 30 May 2010 - 08:52 PM

I noted trickplay works significantly better with DECA vs ethernet.

#10 OFFLINE   barryb

barryb

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 2,935 posts
Joined: Aug 26, 2007

Posted 30 May 2010 - 09:05 PM

I was just wondering where the 2.5x over Ethernet performance came from.
I think that's on the HR-24. I'm not sure it's physically possible on an HR22/21/20 using the actual Ethernet port.


DECA is 250mb/s, but as you have stated, thats not possible with any receiver less than a x24. ;)

With the increase of networked video devices like the Roku, XBox, etc, I'll still be including Ethernet to every TV location anyway. But at least it's not necessary for DirecTV.


Me too.... wait... I already did that for MRV a year back. Now I have all these extra ethernet ports, all Cat6, and thats a win for all this "other stuff" I have laying around (xbox, etc).

That is unless those Ethernet ports are 1000-T and the DECA/SWiM is essentially a gigabit network. In that case Ethernet would be lower performance unless you also had a Gigabit switch?
I'm just talking out my rear-end here. Ignore me. :)


Answered above. :)
Barry
MY SETUP
You can usually find me helping out in the Quiet Room on Friday chat night.

#11 OFFLINE   mikemyers

mikemyers

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 175 posts
Joined: May 18, 2010

Posted 30 May 2010 - 11:05 PM

I'm just getting involved in these things, and need to get the DECA so my system works as it's supposed to.


In one of my calls to DirecTV, I spoke to someone who thoroughly understood the system, what's better, how to set things up, and so on. I told him my goal was to set up the MRV with my ethernet network, but he said that this will soon be discontinued, and the only option will be to use the DECA.

I told him I wanted to do what was being discussed here in this forum, but he told me this was only a Beta project, and it would soon come to an end, and the boxes would lose their ability to communicate with my old network. I think he meant that the system would be fully contained, with all communication between boxes going through the DirecTV coax, and one connection to my switch/router for downloading.


I don't want to say much more - I'm just beginning to use/understand this new system.

#12 OFFLINE   barryb

barryb

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 2,935 posts
Joined: Aug 26, 2007

Posted 31 May 2010 - 01:25 AM

I can't speak on all of that Mike as I really don't know what DirecTV has planned.

All I know is that DECA/SWiM is the obvious better choice (for me).
Barry
MY SETUP
You can usually find me helping out in the Quiet Room on Friday chat night.

#13 OFFLINE   jdspencer

jdspencer

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 6,565 posts
Joined: Nov 07, 2003

Posted 31 May 2010 - 06:48 AM

...
I don't want to say much more - I'm just beginning to use/understand this new system.

No need to say more.
Read this thread.
http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=177590
DirecTV since '96, Waivers for ABC, CBS, NBC, & Fox, HR23-700 & HR24-500/AM21, using ethernet based MRV.

#14 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

Mike Greer

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,612 posts
  • LocationSalt Lake City, Utah
Joined: Jan 20, 2004

Posted 31 May 2010 - 07:02 AM

So it sounds like that unless you have all HR24s and H24s Ethernet through a switch would have the same performance right?

I ask because my MRV performance was pretty good but since the HR22s got the latest and greatest firmware the trick-play has major issues.

Takes about 5 or 6 seconds for recording from an HR22 to start to play on my HR24. Once it starts to play it is ok but I can't easily FF/RWD etc. It gets all out of whack.... If I start to FF and then hit play it sometimes jumps back a full 60 seconds sometimes only jumps back 10 seconds so you never know what you're going to get.

I'd pay the for the 'official' upgrade to DECA but I don't see how that is going to help me here unless I spend another $400 or $600 to get an all HR24 setup.

#15 OFFLINE   ffemtreed

ffemtreed

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 958 posts
Joined: Jan 30, 2008

Posted 31 May 2010 - 08:24 AM

So it sounds like that unless you have all HR24s and H24s Ethernet through a switch would have the same performance right?

I ask because my MRV performance was pretty good but since the HR22s got the latest and greatest firmware the trick-play has major issues.

Takes about 5 or 6 seconds for recording from an HR22 to start to play on my HR24. Once it starts to play it is ok but I can't easily FF/RWD etc. It gets all out of whack.... If I start to FF and then hit play it sometimes jumps back a full 60 seconds sometimes only jumps back 10 seconds so you never know what you're going to get.

I'd pay the for the 'official' upgrade to DECA but I don't see how that is going to help me here unless I spend another $400 or $600 to get an all HR24 setup.


Trick play is about the only thing that will be slightly better with DECA instead of straight Ethernet.

#16 OFFLINE   wingrider01

wingrider01

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,764 posts
Joined: Sep 09, 2005

Posted 31 May 2010 - 08:47 AM

Trick play is about the only thing that will be slightly better with DECA instead of straight Ethernet.


and the simple fact DECA is supported by Directv, if ethernet you are on your own if there are issues

#17 OFFLINE   harsh

harsh

    Beware the Attack Basset

  • Registered
  • 18,565 posts
  • LocationSalem, OR
Joined: Jun 14, 2003

Posted 31 May 2010 - 08:54 AM

DECA is 250mb/s, but as you have stated, thats not possible with any receiver less than a x24. ;)

MoCA says that the maximum is 270Mbps, but they make it clear that the sustained transfer rate is closer to 175Mbps.

MoCA 1.1 recently upped the ante with incorporation of packet aggregation which yields net throughputs of 175 Mbps.

Note that packet aggregation has little impact on large packets as the overhead is small in comparison.

Is the HR24 Ethernet port 10/100 or 10/100/1000?

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK


#18 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,726 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 31 May 2010 - 09:00 AM

MoCA says that the maximum is 270Mbps, but they make it clear that the sustained transfer rate is closer to 175Mbps.Note that packet aggregation has little impact on large packets as the overhead is small in comparison.

Is the HR24 Ethernet port 10/100 or 10/100/1000?

and again we have another nonsense post.
DECA currently tests out at 250+ Mb/s, which you'd actually have to have this to know.
The H/HR24 has DECA internal which out performs the ethernet port it has.
Currently with the 16 node max with DECA, bandwidth/transfer rates can't reach the limit of DECA.
A.K.A VOS

#19 OFFLINE   harsh

harsh

    Beware the Attack Basset

  • Registered
  • 18,565 posts
  • LocationSalem, OR
Joined: Jun 14, 2003

Posted 31 May 2010 - 09:03 AM

DECA currently tests out at 250+ Mb/s, which you'd actually have to have this to know.

How did you test this?

Why is the MoCA Alliance understating the capabilities?

Do you have evidence that the HR24 doesn't use its Ethernet interface with the built-in DECA adapter?

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK


#20 OFFLINE   Newshawk

Newshawk

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 2,427 posts
Joined: Sep 02, 2004

Posted 31 May 2010 - 09:26 AM

I can't quote speeds and I know that there are variables external to the DECA network (such as my son and whether he's torrenting or online gaming) but I can give an anecdotal observation. I watch a lot of anime from the Anime Network On Demand. Before DECA, the downloads (about 12-16 25 minute episodes most weeks) would usually take hours, even though these are SD programs. With DECA, they were done in about half the time. I don't know if I have DECA to thank, but I was impressed!

DIRECTV employee April 2004-November 2012.
The above comments are my own because I don't know if anyone would care about my opinions anymore.





spam firewall