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Guest Message by DevFuse

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DISH protection plan $6/month $25 to cancel


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49 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 08:15 AM

I wouldn't be to hard to find a couple of Hundred times it was recommended to somebody in these Forums in the past( and still to this day) for somebody with a problem to simply add HPP, and then remove it afterwards. System was just way to abused, rather we like it or not, Dish had to stop the abuse.

What ? System abused ?! Perhaps you're kidding or their stockholder ...

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#27 OFFLINE   tsmacro

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 08:57 AM

Here's the thing, this is really all about economics. When you have something that needs fixing Dish has to pay someone to come out and do that job. They have some options on how to make sure they have enough $$$ to pay those who do that job. They can charge you the customer for that service as you need it, they can raise their prices of their programming for everyone (pretty much how cable generally does it) or they can do something like offer the service plan, which is basically like insurance, a total waste of money unless of course you need it and then you're glad you have it. Now obviously Dish figured out that the $$$ they were raising through the Dish Service Plan (formerly DHPP) wasn't enough and maybe that was because some people were adding it and dropping it as needed so they needed to change it to make it so it was able to cover the costs that it intended.


"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." - Douglas Adams

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#28 OFFLINE   GrumpyBear

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 09:05 AM

What ? System abused ?! Perhaps you're kidding or their stockholder ...

Yes the system was abused, and the reason for the $25 to drop it. System was abused by Dish's own people. If you don't like the word abused, how about the system was taken advantage of by well informed Dish users, and fell within Dish's policy. Dish Changed the Policy, to discourage it, yet well informed Dish Users can still do it.

As for a Stockholder, Hardly. Dish nor Direct's stock has ever been appealing enough to ever buy.

#29 OFFLINE   SaltiDawg

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 09:28 AM

... Dish nor Direct's stock has ever been appealing enough to ever buy.

Grumpy,

Not correct. :nono2:

#30 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 10:13 AM

Dish nor Direct's stock has ever been appealing enough to ever buy.

Grumpy,

Not correct. :nono2:

There was a time when both - well, Echostar and DirecTV - were appealing enough to buy. I bought Echostar in the late 1990's after I'd been a C-band customer for a long time and kept it until the spinoff into two corporations Echostar and Dish, and made a meaningful profit. DirecTV looked good in the mid-2000's and I'm kicking myself for not buying it then.

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#31 OFFLINE   SaltiDawg

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 10:15 AM

There was a time when both - well, Echostar and DirecTV - were appealing enough to buy. I bought Echostar in the late 1990's ...


Same here. Still have the shares.

#32 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 10:20 AM

Yes the system was abused, and the reason for the $25 to drop it. System was abused by Dish's own people. If you don't like the word abused, how about the system was taken advantage of by well informed Dish users, and fell within Dish's policy. Dish Changed the Policy, to discourage it, yet well informed Dish Users can still do it.

As for a Stockholder, Hardly. Dish nor Direct's stock has ever been appealing enough to ever buy.

I wouldn't say so, at least to procure the $25 penalty fee sum. Why not $50 or $5 ?

#33 OFFLINE   GrumpyBear

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 10:24 AM

Grumpy,

Not correct. :nono2:


Appealing enough for me to buy. I always found other short term or long term stocks, or gold to buy that were more appealing.

#34 OFFLINE   GrumpyBear

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 10:40 AM

I wouldn't say so, at least to procure the $25 penalty fee sum. Why not $50 or $5 ?


Why not $50 or $5? Who knows. Why not $66, and cover a yrs worth of HPP
Sorry the system was abused. Both inside and outside, its policy though, and if you know how to abuse it, abuse it.
As a person who was considered "necessary" overhead by both Sales and Marketing, I have no problem with generating money for the service side of house, instead of being considered a drain, on resources.

#35 OFFLINE   SaltiDawg

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 10:41 AM

Appealing enough for me to buy. I always found other short term or long term stocks, or gold to buy that were more appealing.

And of course the degree of appealing enough to buy has nothing to do with whether down the road it turns out to have been a good investment.

While the decision whether to buy Dish stock years ago might be debated, it can't change the fact that with hindsight it was a great investment (for those of us that did find it appealing.) :)

#36 OFFLINE   GrumpyBear

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 10:44 AM

And of course the degree of appealing enough to buy has nothing to do with whether down the road it turns out to have been a good investment.

While the decision whether to buy Dish stock years ago might be debated, it can't change the fact that with hindsight it was a great investment (for those of us that did find it appealing.) :)

Oh we could start a HUGE thread on Stocks we found appealing vs stocks we didn't and were they are at now.
As for P Smith calling me a Stockholder, my response was a Big no, as I never even considered stocks like Dish, Direct, Tivo, and many other service providers in this area's stock. It wasn't meant as a blanket they weren't worth it, they just never appealed to me.

#37 OFFLINE   SaltiDawg

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 11:09 AM

... as I never even considered stocks like Dish, Direct, Tivo, and many other service providers in this area's stock. It wasn't meant as a blanket they weren't worth it, they just never appealed to me.

I understand and agree completely. Thanks. (Logitech was my bad choice. :) )

#38 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 11:19 AM

Here's the thing, this is really all about economics. When you have something that needs fixing Dish has to pay someone to come out and do that job. They have some options on how to make sure they have enough $$$ to pay those who do that job. They can charge you the customer for that service as you need it, they can raise their prices of their programming for everyone (pretty much how cable generally does it) or they can do something like offer the service plan, which is basically like insurance, a total waste of money unless of course you need it and then you're glad you have it. Now obviously Dish figured out that the $$$ they were raising through the Dish Service Plan (formerly DHPP) wasn't enough and maybe that was because some people were adding it and dropping it as needed so they needed to change it to make it so it was able to cover the costs that it intended.

Or instead of going into the "insurance" business, they could charge and set aside 50¢± per account per month which would generate about $90,000,000 a year and make repairs with a reasonable approach to dealing with damage caused by the customer and damage covered by a typical homeowners/renters insurance policy. Or to quote myself:

Just how is it ethical that such a corporation offers you an ongoing service that depends upon the equipment they provide and install but won't include the maintenance of the equipment in the basic charge? How does that fit within any sense of fair play? And the answer isn't "that's what all the multi-billion dollar international corporations do."


"In a hundred years there'll be a whole new set of people."
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#39 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 11:41 AM

I agree with you Phrelin. Maintenance should be an included part of the package but isn't. And they do it because they can and for no other reason, well maybe because it does help pay for the maintenance and make a bit of profit too... :)

I keep the maintenance because today they could change the rules and make it have to be in effect for 30 days before you can use it, like D* does, and not tell us until after we try to sign up for it and use it. That's one of the things they can change to the terms of the contract by the only clause that has meaning, you know the one that says they can change any and all terms without notice or penalty to them.

One of these days, I keep telling myself, some slick law firm is going to go straight at contract law that allows contracts with that phrase in them at all. It should be an interesting case.

Of course, if that changed, then the contract would be as signed for the 2 year obligation, which would also mean that when really good deals come along later (like the free HD for life and such) the contract terms would not allow for existing customers to get the benefit.

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#40 OFFLINE   SaltiDawg

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 11:43 AM

"Just how is it ethical that such a corporation offers you an ongoing service that depends upon the equipment they provide and install but won't include the maintenance of the equipment in the basic charge? ... "

Ever lease an automobile? A boat? An aircraft? A truck? Heavy equipment? etc, etc, etc. :rolleyes:

#41 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 12:12 PM

What's really interesting is the agreement begins as follows:

DISH Network L.L.C., formerly Echostar Satellite L.L.C. ( “DISH Network”), 9601 S. Meridian Blvd., Englewood, CO 80112, 1-800-333-DISH (3474), is the obligor (“Obligor”) of this Service Plan service contract (“Plan”) in all states except as follows. In Alabama, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Nevada, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oregon, South Carolina, Utah, Vermont , Virginia and Wyoming, Federal Warranty Service Corporation, P.O Box 105689, Atlanta, GA 30348-5689, is the Obligor of the Plan. In California, the Obligor of this Plan is Sureway, Inc., P.O Box 105689, Atlanta, GA 30348-5689. In Florida, the Obligor of this Plan is American Bankers Insurance Company of Florida (for Plans written prior to November 1, 2007) and United Service Protection, Inc. (for Plans written on or after November 1, 2007). In all states, DISH Network is the administrator of this Plan. The service performed under this Plan is provided through DISH Network.

These companies are, or are subsidiaries of, large insurance and investment type corporations and you'll find similar listings ranging from Staples warranty program to the bankrupt Circuit City warranty and maintenance program. So Dish is reinsuring its risk which means that the $6 a month gets spread around the profit and loss statements of some profitable corporations.

My problem with Dish doing that is that unlike Circuit City or Staples, Dish is maintaining only Echostar products and its own installations. It really shouldn't need to reinsure its own work IMHO. And it isn't like when you lease a car through a dealer using a leasing company, all somewhat removed from Ford. I can't separate my ongoing usage of the equipment from a direct service connection to Dish Network with one exception, I can get distant locals from another provider.

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#42 OFFLINE   tsmacro

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 12:37 PM

Or instead of going into the "insurance" business, they could charge and set aside 50¢± per account per month which would generate about $90,000,000 a year and make repairs with a reasonable approach to dealing with damage caused by the customer and damage covered by a typical homeowners/renters insurance policy. Or to quote myself:


They could, but obviously they decided they like the way they do it better. I'm sure they've done all sorts of studies and research, paid accountants and lawyers to figure it all out and they've decided the way they do it makes the most economic sense for them. Personally I kind of like the idea that i'm responsible for my own maintenance of my dish system where I get to decide if something goes wrong if I want to or am capable of fixing it myself, whether I want to pay a Dish technician do the work or take the Service plan and just have blanket coverage whenever I might need it. And if I ever decided I don't like how they have it set up I could check out DirecTv or cable and see how they handle it and see if I like that any better.


"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." - Douglas Adams

"Who would rule a nation when he could have easier work, such as carrying water uphill in a sieve?" - Robert Jordan


#43 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 02:01 PM

They could, but obviously they decided they like the way they do it better. I'm sure they've done all sorts of studies and research, paid accountants and lawyers to figure it all out and they've decided the way they do it makes the most economic sense for them. Personally I kind of like the idea that i'm responsible for my own maintenance of my dish system where I get to decide if something goes wrong if I want to or am capable of fixing it myself, whether I want to pay a Dish technician do the work or take the Service plan and just have blanket coverage whenever I might need it. And if I ever decided I don't like how they have it set up I could check out DirecTv or cable and see how they handle it and see if I like that any better.

I don't have the plan. I have paid a total of $85 including tips for maintenance/repairs in the last 5 years.

Truthfully, I used to do it myself, but I'm getting a little old to deal with the main dish and the switch up nearly 3 stories on the roof. If I do have someone come out, it is a subcontractor to a contractor to Dish, so I have to supervise and they still have to use my ladders.

When it comes to the DVR having problems, Dish just sends me a refurb - well, likely two refurbs because the first one won't work.:rolleyes:

With that said, I still think Dish should be responsible for providing a service that means delivering a usable signal to my "TV" including uplink to satellite signal to dish to receiver/DVR outputs. Problems before the outputs essentially mean they aren't delivering the service IMHO. It just isn't comparable to OTA broadcast TV where the viewer does not send money to the stations every month and must provide his/her own antenna.

"In a hundred years there'll be a whole new set of people."
"Always poke the bears. They sleep too much for their own good."

"If you're good enough, they'll talk about you." - Tom Harmon
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#44 OFFLINE   david_jr

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 06:02 AM

Ever lease an automobile? A boat? An aircraft? A truck? Heavy equipment? etc, etc, etc. :rolleyes:


I don't think there is a perfect analogy to apply to what is being discussed, but I think the car lease is the closest. You lease a car and it comes with a factory warranty, usually 12 - 36 mo bumper to bumper, then other warranties on powertrain, etc. If you bought the car outright it would come with the same warranty. They usually offer you an Extended Service Protection Plan, which covers you for things after the bumper to bumper ends. Some buy it, some don't.

Most electronics are sold, not leased, but in the case of E*, D* & the cablecos, they gets customers by leasing the equipment because most people won't pay what these things cost up front. Electronics warranties are much shorter than cars (certainly not as durable goods), usually 3 mos, parts & labor, one year parts. If Dish leases you a new 722, they warranty it for a short period, (I'm not sure how long) if it breaks they replace it, then after that it is on you, but they do offer DHPP for a fee and they set up the rules on how it's used.

I lease 2 cars. One is a Honda Accord. 24 months and 22K adult driven miles into a 36 month lease, the Honda needs rear brakes (metal to metal, fronts still at 75% life) for $425, new tires for $450 and a front end alignment for $70 in addition to the usual oil change and tire rotation $50. Now the car is still under 36 month bumper to bumper warranty, not so fast, the items listed are not covered because they are "wear items," check the fine print. They did offer the extended warranty that I didn't buy, but the items listed wouldn't have been covered by that either. I have bought extended warranties on other cars in the past only to find that most things that break either aren't covered or they only pay a certain percentage of the repair, only cover the part, not labor etc. and on major items like powertrain only cover for used replacements or rebuilt. That's why I no longer buy them.

Dish offers DHPP for $6 a month, some buy it, most don't. If you have it and you have a problem they generally take care of the problem, replace the equipment, etc., etc., for the prescribed fee (usually $15) unless there is proof that you physically abused the equipment. I have not heard of Dish not honoring or trying to wiggle out of the DHPP. The point is that leased equipment is technically owned by the provider, but the law treats it as though you are the owner. At least Dish honors the warranty if you buy it is my only point. And they also let you buy it after you've had a problem. Try getting a car shop to do that.

#45 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 06:28 AM

The car lease analogy doesn't hold up in comparison. What we are really doing is renting the equipment from the sat provider. A lease is generally a fixed term/fixed price deal, and you can hardly call what E* and D* do a lease. They only want to call it that so they can get out of the maintenance.

In a car lease, at the end of the fixed term, you either get a replacement vehicle with a new fixed term/price, or you just turn in the car. In a sat provider 'lease', it is a fully open ended deal. Neither the term, nor the price is fixed beyond the current/next monthly bill. Just like a month-to-month house rental except that there is a minimum term at the front. But unlike the house rental, where wear and tear is part of the deal, you pay for all maintenance of their equipment/installation.

The way I figure it is that it costs 'x' dollars a month to have the service and maintenance, and as long as that cost is reasonable to ME, I'll keep paying the bill and keeping the service. But since they write the terms of the non-negotiable contract, I feel no urge/responsibility to do anything beyond what those terms are, nor do I feel un-ethical or immoral if I take advantage of a quirk in their contract.

Lloyd
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#46 OFFLINE   SaltiDawg

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 07:02 AM

... nor do I feel un-ethical or immoral if I take advantage of a quirk in their contract.

I love it. A quirk. :rolleyes:

#47 OFFLINE   jsk

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 07:41 AM

Here's what I think they should do:

  • Reduce the service call fees to whatever it would be to add DPP, pay for the service call and remove DPP.
  • If someone does have DPP, they pay nothing for service calls
  • Raise the price to remove DPP to the point where it wouldn't be cheaper to add it, create a service call and remove it

This would equal things out for everyone. Right now, there is no incentive to carry the DPP from month to month and those doing so are wasting money.
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#48 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 11:09 AM

IMHO if the service plan were a part of all packages, it would cost less than 50¢ a customer. I just don't accept the idea that if your product is a television signal delivered into the home in usable form at a price, you say "except that we only guarantee it as far as the air space above your roof unless you pay $6 a month more."

"In a hundred years there'll be a whole new set of people."
"Always poke the bears. They sleep too much for their own good."

"If you're good enough, they'll talk about you." - Tom Harmon
A GEEZER who remembers watching TV in 1951 and was an Echostar customer from 1988 to 2008, now a Dish Network customer.
My AV Setup
My Slingbox Pro HD Experience
My Blog: The Redwood Guardian


#49 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 12:07 PM

I love it. A quirk. :rolleyes:


I'm glad I could make you smile.

How about a carefully crafted paragraph in a contract written by highly paid lawyers?

A contract that is very one-sided and totally changeable by those that wrote it with our only remedy to cancel service and pay a penalty for that.

How's that smile coming along... :)

Lloyd
Receiver/Provider: Tivo Roamio Plus/Mediacom
HDTV : Mitsi WD-73742 73" 3D DLP
Surround: Denon AVR-2113ci 7.1 Setup

 


#50 OFFLINE   SaltiDawg

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 12:40 PM

...
How's that smile coming along... :)

You do make me laugh. :rolleyes:




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