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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Those with issues with their receivers after yesterday's glitch...


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90 replies to this topic

Poll: Has your DVR recovered? (257 member(s) have cast votes)

Has your DVR recovered?

  1. I have a DVR with an INTERNAL drive, and it HAS recovered (194 votes [75.49%])

    Percentage of vote: 75.49%

  2. I have a DVR with an INTERNAL drive, and it has NOT recovered (14 votes [5.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.45%

  3. I have a DVR with an EXTERNAL drive, and it HAS recovered (38 votes [14.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.79%

  4. I have a DVR with an EXTERNAL drive, and it has NOT recovered (11 votes [4.28%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.28%

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#26 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 12:16 PM

After all the rigamorole the other day it seems like everything is functioning as should be - EXCEPT - I don't have any optical output to my stereo receiver. Is this a fluke? Anyone else having this problem?? :confused:

I use optical on all my receivers, and they all came back fine.

I'm connected to an Octava switch with the Optical out going to a Yamaha receiver.

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#27 OFFLINE   DarinC

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 12:33 PM

After all the rigamorole the other day it seems like everything is functioning as should be - EXCEPT - I don't have any optical output to my stereo receiver. Is this a fluke? Anyone else having this problem?? :confused:


Is this the first time you've posted about this? I could swear I've seen another post about that issue, but now I can't find it. Maybe I'm getting it confused with TAnsley's loss of ethernet connectivity. I have seen these things behave very oddly with bad drive data. My other HR21 arrived with a bad hard drive, but I didn't realize at first that the HD was the cause. It just acted "flaky". The ring of light would display a single section during normal play, it would spontaneously reboot, etc. It wasn't until the 90 day warranty was up that it actually started giving me "storage device" errors. I replaced the drive, and THAT unit has been operating fine ever since. The unit I'm having problems with now also has an AM-21 attached to it. When it's internal drive started to go out, I would have weird issues where the AM-21 power light would stay on when the DVR was powered down (they normally light in unison). So the moral is: weird things do happen to these things that seem to defy logical diagnostics. :shrug:
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#28 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 12:49 PM

Darin, are you sure that the External Drive has Fully Spun Up before you Plug it into the DVR and Power On the DVR???

Sometimes the eSATA Controller is slow and the DVR does not recognize it because it hasn't responded yet and it thinks there is no activity at the eSATA Port so it boots up in the Internal Drive and if yours is bad then that could be the problem.

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#29 OFFLINE   DarinC

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 01:22 PM

Yes, I've powered both down a couple different times, waited, and powered the external up well before the DVR. And of course, during the initial problem (coming home to the DVR stuck in the scanning screen after the pushed reboot), the external drive would have never spun down to start with. I've watched it when the DVR boots, and the activity light on the external drive does flash. Unfortunately, I've not found any way to determine for SURE that it does in fact decide to go ahead and use the external drive (the scan screen doesn't give any information about the drive it's scanning). But it does scan relatively quickly (45 mins or so), but when it's done, it says 100% passed, no errors found or corrected. But then it sits on the "everything's good" screen for about five minutes before progressing to the "everything's not good with the storage device, try rebooting" screen. But I think regardless, if I reformat the drive with NTFS, I would think that would force the DVR to immediately do it's own format once it's reconnected, so I should then know for sure that it's using the external. I'll report back tonight.
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#30 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 01:56 PM

Hmm, that's troubling to hear. And I can't fault your logic... when I first got this unit, I put an external drive on it that failed before it's (expected) time, but I was willing to accept that as luck of the draw. I reverted back to the internal drive until that ultimately died, which I "fixed" by putting this new external drive on it. I hate to think that my 10 day old external drive got fried by DirecTV's glitch, but it's certainly possible. I'll attach it to a PC, run WD diagnostics on it, reformat it, and try it on the DVR again. If it truly is dead, I'll get DirecTV to replace the DVR, and stick to the internal drives from now on. Now that I've shifted all broadcast TV recording to an HTPC, I don't need nearly as much recording space, so the internal will be fine.

FWIW, I do have a UPS on all my systems. So the drive does stay powered up at all times. But as you say, it's impossible to know when a NR will hit, or a pushed reboot to fix a data "glitch". :(


Unfortunately, it took me a couple years to see what should have been obvious about the eSATAs. I still have a couple and they have weathered every storm. But I know it's only a matter of time until one gets shot and dies. Don't think anybody can be blamed for this, we accepted the "unsupported" eSATA function and were happy with it, but after buying my own HRs and putting the huge HDDs in them it's pretty plain to me that this is the way to go.

Most of the problems folks have had that were caused by the NRs to the eSATAs couldn't have been avoided and the UPS does nothing during an NR. At least when the power goes out folks can and should disconnect the plugs on both the HRs and the eSATAs and power them up in the proper sequence when the power comes back on.

Of all the eSATAs I have had, I gotta say that the MX-1 enclosures were, by far, the least susceptible to harm from an NR.

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#31 OFFLINE   poppo

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 02:38 PM

Well it seems like both internal and external drives have problems. and while the poll may not be totally accurate, a 7% non-recovery rate is not good if it is even close to being accurate. Even a 1% failure rate would be a huge headache for DirecTV.

#32 OFFLINE   DarinC

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 02:45 PM

after buying my own HRs and putting the huge HDDs in them it's pretty plain to me that this is the way to go.


Yes, the "good" unit I have is the one that arrived with a bad drive which I replaced (with a larger drive). I've had no problems with it since. But that is an owned unit (which is why I didn't/couldn't dump it back in DirecTV's lap when the drive died). The one I'm currently having problems with is leased. But it is SUCH a PITA to pull it out and replace it, that I really want to fix the issue if at all possible before resorting to that.

Of all the eSATAs I have had, I gotta say that the MX-1 enclosures were, by far, the least susceptible to harm from an NR.

That's interesting. I THOUGHT that the eSATA data is essentially just passed straight through from the eSATA connector on the back of the enclosure to the drive itself, and the differences between enclosures just comes down to cooling, power quality, and circuitry for other interfaces, if present. But of course, if it does have multiple interfaces (as most due, such as USB), I guess there could be different implementations in how those are "switched". But regardless, if I can't get this fixed, I'll definitely just be using the stock internal drives going forward. I just hate that I went and bought a new drive 10 days before the "big glitch". :nono:
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#33 OFFLINE   DarinC

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 02:57 PM

Well it seems like both internal and external drives have problems. and while the poll may not be totally accurate, a 7% non-recovery rate is not good if it is even close to being accurate. Even a 1% failure rate would be a huge headache for DirecTV.


Yes, I agree, but again, I certainly wouldn't use these numbers as anything close to an indication of how many units couldn't recover. I was just trying to quantify a difference in failure rates between internal and external drives. But it seems clear that the external drives have had a higher failure rate, and thanks to input from others, it does appear that they are, for whatever reason, more susceptible to "glitches" than internals. So even if I don't get mine fixed, the information gathered has been helpful. Lesson learned.

But I agree, regardless of what the real numbers are, obviously some units were brought down by the glitch. I guess the positive spin on that is that hopefully that gives DirecTV financial incentive to focus on preventing them in the future. :sure:
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#34 OFFLINE   SubSlr08

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 03:20 PM

I use optical on all my receivers, and they all came back fine. I'm connected to an Octava switch with the Optical out going to a Yamaha receiver. Mike


Is this the first time you've posted about this? I could swear I've seen another post about that issue, but now I can't find it.


Thanks, Mike. I'm going thru a switch too but everything else hooked to it seems to be OK - DVD & DVD-Rec. Maybe the TOS link got pulled loose or something while I was fiddling with the power plug. Oh, how I hate to crawl back there, tho......

Darin, I did post something two days ago on the 03Xfe discussion or issues forum, but I can't find it either~! 'Lil 'tronic gremlins, I suspect. :P

Thanks.............
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#35 OFFLINE   ThomasM

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 07:57 PM

I have an R22 but no HD. It locked up and rebooted by itself around 3PM like all the HD DVR's but it seems to have recovered completely including the guide now having all the "cast & crew" and that new parental narrative back.

Perhaps some of the units that didn't recover had something to do with HD?

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#36 OFFLINE   DarinC

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 08:53 PM

Success! Well, at least for now. This morning before I left for work, it still hadn't made any progress. So I turned it off (hearing reports that extended periods turned off my help). After leaving it off for 11 hours, it went right back to the same loop it's been stuck in since the glitch. So I powered it down, and proceeded with my plan: connected the drive to a PC, ran WD extended diagnostics (took a little over 2 hrs, it's a 640GB drive), which it passed. Then I used the WD utility to write zeroes to the drive (full erase rather than the quick one). That took another 2+ hrs. Powered it down, connected it back up to the DVR, powered up, the DVR formatted it, then it booted right up.

I'm not 100% convinced that it's not going to crap out again. I seem to remember when the 1st external went bad that it would pass diagnostics on the PC, and work for a bit after a format. But I've got my fingers crossed that the drive really is good. If it does error out again, I think I've done all I can do. I'll have to bite the bullet and just replace the DVR, and avoid external drives in the future.

So if anyone out there has a unit with an external drive that still hasn't recovered, try the steps above. :)
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#37 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 06:56 AM

Success! Well, at least for now. This morning before I left for work, it still hadn't made any progress. So I turned it off (hearing reports that extended periods turned off my help). After leaving it off for 11 hours, it went right back to the same loop it's been stuck in since the glitch. So I powered it down, and proceeded with my plan: connected the drive to a PC, ran WD extended diagnostics (took a little over 2 hrs, it's a 640GB drive), which it passed. Then I used the WD utility to write zeroes to the drive (full erase rather than the quick one). That took another 2+ hrs. Powered it down, connected it back up to the DVR, powered up, the DVR formatted it, then it booted right up.

I'm not 100% convinced that it's not going to crap out again. I seem to remember when the 1st external went bad that it would pass diagnostics on the PC, and work for a bit after a format. But I've got my fingers crossed that the drive really is good. If it does error out again, I think I've done all I can do. I'll have to bite the bullet and just replace the DVR, and avoid external drives in the future.

So if anyone out there has a unit with an external drive that still hasn't recovered, try the steps above. :)

Based on the results...that evidence would lead me to believe there was a 60/40 probability there was an issue with the drive over the DVR itself.
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#38 OFFLINE   DarinC

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 07:24 AM

Based on the results...that evidence would lead me to believe there was a 60/40 probability there was an issue with the drive over the DVR itself.

Well, I guess it may be an issue of semantics. From DirecTV's perspective, there is an issue with the DVR, because the internal drive is bad. From their perspective, it's not considered a user serviceable part. So the DVR, as a unit, is "bad", and should technically be replaced. However, because I didn't want to hassle with getting a replacement, I simply attached an external drive. Which worked fine until "the glitch", which also, based on the results, caused issues for a disproportionately high percentage of other external drive users.

While it's probably too early to proclaim definitively that the drive is actually fine, preliminary results would suggest that there's actually nothing wrong with the drive: The DVR diagnostics repeatedly said there were no errors, yet it wouldn't boot with the drive. Western Digital diagnostics say there's nothing wrong with the drive. And after wiping the drive and re-attaching it to the DVR, it is (so far) working just fine.

So the results would lead ME to believe that "the glitch" imposed a data error on the drive that the DVR was simply unable to remove. Once it was removed with external tools, the DVR seems happy with the drive. I'm not sure why would think there's a 60/40 chance the drive was the problem. :confused:
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#39 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 07:27 AM

Well, I guess it may be an issue of semantics. From DirecTV's perspective, there is an issue with the DVR, because the internal drive is bad. From their perspective, it's not considered a user serviceable part. So the DVR is bad, and should technically be replaced. However, because I didn't want to hassle with getting a replacement, I simply attached an external drive. Which worked fine until "the glitch", which also, based on the results, caused issues for a disproportionately high percentage of other external drive users.

While it's probably too early to proclaim definitively that the drive is actually fine, preliminary results would suggest that there's actually nothing wrong with the drive: The DVR diagnostics repeatedly said there were no errors, yet it wouldn't boot with the drive. Western Digital diagnostics say there's nothing wrong with the drive. And after wiping the drive and re-attaching it to the DVR, it is (so far) working just fine.

So the results would lead ME to believe that "the glitch" imposed a data error on the drive that the DVR was simply unable to remove. Once it was removed with external tools, the DVR seems happy with the drive. I'm not sure why would think there's a 60/40 chance the drive was the problem. :confused:

Agreed that from their perspective...they'd see it as the DVR.

That said...it will be interesting to see how your "experiment" works out over the next month or so. Much like PCs....recurring problems would likely show up sooner if they're going to come back.
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#40 OFFLINE   JoeDokes327

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 07:51 AM

I have a HR20-100 with a 2TB external WD MyWorld drive. Got the same 24 hour scan and reboot. No errors found by scan but HR20 rebooted to the internal drive. I have rebooted numerous times. If it recognizes the external drive it goes into scan mode, if it does not it boots to the internal drive. When it boots to the internal drive all functionality appears normal with the exception of not having access to the 1.4 TB of programming on the external drive and all of the DVR settings stored on the external drive. Tech support had no suggestions other than A. contacting the HD manufacturer (like they wound have a solution) or B. hook it up to my HR21. I had to remind him that hooking it to the HR21 would destroy all the recordings on the external drive. This is my theory on the problem. The faulty update was loaded to the external drive. When they sent the fix for it, the update went to the internal drive because the first update rendered the external drive inaccessible. Because the system will not boot to the external drive there doesn't appear to be any way to replace the faulty update on the external drive. It's curious that some people have been able to reboot their external drives and others can't. Perhaps the "transmission glitch" affected different brands of drives in different ways. So far have no ideas other than continuing to attempt reboots and hope one eventually works. Any new info out there on a solution. When I talked to DTV they acted like they were unaware of any issues with external drives.

#41 OFFLINE   DarinC

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 08:17 AM

It's curious that some people have been able to reboot their external drives and others can't. Perhaps the "transmission glitch" affected different brands of drives in different ways.

It would also be interesting to compare whether or not people "fixed" the glitch themselves with RBRs, as opposed to those who weren't home at the time and had the DVRs sitting in the unresponsive mode until DirecTV pushed the reboot. I wasn't home, so ours depended on the pushed reboot, and was in the scan screen when we got home. Different people were also on different NRs, maybe some were recording and some not, there could be many variables.

So far have no ideas other than continuing to attempt reboots and hope one eventually works.

With external drives being an "unsupported" feature, I doubt that you'll get a solution from DirecTV. At some point, absent of any other suggestions, you may have to give up on maintaining the existing recordings, and try wiping the drive like I did. For me, it was just an issue of spending the time to do it. Since that drive had only been in operation for 10 days, it wasn't like there was a ton of stuff on there (especially considering that it's not our only DVR, and we don't use these DVRs for locals any more). I understand it can be painful with a 2TB drive that has been acquiring programming for a long time. :(
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#42 OFFLINE   poppo

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 11:35 AM

It would also be interesting to compare whether or not people "fixed" the glitch themselves with RBRs, as opposed to those who weren't home at the time and had the DVRs sitting in the unresponsive mode until DirecTV pushed the reboot.


That's a good point. The double reboots flushed the guide data by doing two within a certain time. The reboot command sent by DirecTV apparently was supposed to also flush the guide instead of a simple reboot. The different methods may have resulted in different results.


That's interesting. I THOUGHT that the eSATA data is essentially just passed straight through from the eSATA connector on the back of the enclosure to the drive itself, and the differences between enclosures just comes down to cooling, power quality, and circuitry for other interfaces, if present. But of course, if it does have multiple interfaces (as most due, such as USB), .....


At least with the MX1 case there is additional circuitry since it has a USB interface too. This may be why I never had any problems booting to the external drive while the internal one was pysically disconnected. Some people said theirs would not boot at all if the internal was not connected.

#43 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 02:32 PM

At least with the MX1 case there is additional circuitry since it has a USB interface too. This may be why I never had any problems booting to the external drive while the internal one was pysically disconnected. Some people said theirs would not boot at all if the internal was not connected.


How long ago was it that you tried to run an HR with the internal unplugged or removed? There was a time when you could do it, but that time has passed as far as I know. The last time I tried it was in response to a post by Trailblazer, who could not get his 20-100 to boot up with the power disconnected to the internal HDD and I had to try it. Tried it with the same 20-700 that I ran for several months without an internal and it wouldn't boot up on the external drive. You can get them to boot up on the external and then remove the internal's power cord, but as far as I know, you can't get a full reboot with the power cord removed.

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#44 OFFLINE   poppo

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 04:52 PM

How long ago was it that you tried to run an HR with the internal unplugged or removed?


I was right doing it up until about 2 weeks ago (with several reboots to prove it still worked). The only reason I put the external drives inside the HR20-700s (two of them) is because the fan had failed on one of the MX1 cases. But it was working fine with the internal disconnected long after the claim was made that it would not work. <shrug>

Of course I am regretting it because the annoying 'thrashing' is even louder in the unit than in the external cases. :nono2:

#45 OFFLINE   rbharned

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 05:40 PM

I had similar issues with an HR20-700 and WD 2TB external drive... the HR20 was completely bricked.. multiple multiple RBRs, numerous power up and down with and with out the external Esata drive and nothing but a circular blue LEDs. D* replace my HR-20 with a (hopefully) refurbished one.. and it activated fine without the external drive. When I plugged in (with the HR20 powered down as well as the drive) the Esata drive, it scanned for 18 hours... detected 0 errors. gave code 75-745.... and said restart. So I did that ... and guess what .. the same scan started over. Called D* customer service and they were not helpful at all... basically saying the death of the Esata drive was my problem. I indicated that FIOS was starting to look pretty good now.

So now running WD extended diagnostics... projected time about 10 hrs. Plan to try to reconnect the drive and try again if it passes. If not guess I can format the drive and lose all my programs :<.

Very underwhelmed at the Directv response.

#46 OFFLINE   hasan

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 05:48 PM

I had similar issues with an HR20-700 and WD 2TB external drive... the HR20 was completely bricked.. multiple multiple RBRs, numerous power up and down with and with out the external Esata drive and nothing but a circular blue LEDs. D* replace my HR-20 with a (hopefully) refurbished one.. and it activated fine without the external drive. When I plugged in (with the HR20 powered down as well as the drive) the Esata drive, it scanned for 18 hours... detected 0 errors. gave code 75-745.... and said restart. So I did that ... and guess what .. the same scan started over. Called D* customer service and they were not helpful at all... basically saying the death of the Esata drive was my problem. I indicated that FIOS was starting to look pretty good now.

So now running WD extended diagnostics... projected time about 10 hrs. Plan to try to reconnect the drive and try again if it passes. If not guess I can format the drive and lose all my programs :<.

Very underwhelmed at the Directv response.


eSATA has always been unsupported, as such, I'm not sure just what you expect them to do?
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#47 OFFLINE   Drucifer

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 05:54 PM

eSATA has always been unsupported, as such, I'm not sure just what you expect them to do?

Start a eSATA fee. :lol:

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#48 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 06:04 PM

I had similar issues with an HR20-700 and WD 2TB external drive... the HR20 was completely bricked.. multiple multiple RBRs, numerous power up and down with and with out the external Esata drive and nothing but a circular blue LEDs. D* replace my HR-20 with a (hopefully) refurbished one.. and it activated fine without the external drive. When I plugged in (with the HR20 powered down as well as the drive) the Esata drive, it scanned for 18 hours... detected 0 errors. gave code 75-745.... and said restart. So I did that ... and guess what .. the same scan started over. Called D* customer service and they were not helpful at all... basically saying the death of the Esata drive was my problem. I indicated that FIOS was starting to look pretty good now.

So now running WD extended diagnostics... projected time about 10 hrs. Plan to try to reconnect the drive and try again if it passes. If not guess I can format the drive and lose all my programs :<.

Very underwhelmed at the Directv response.


You're programs are gone...the new HR20 won't play them. Programs are tied to the receiver they were recorded on.
If you stop responding to them or put them on ignore, then eventually they'll go away.

#49 OFFLINE   MikeW

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 07:07 PM

Well, I guess it may be an issue of semantics. From DirecTV's perspective, there is an issue with the DVR, because the internal drive is bad. From their perspective, it's not considered a user serviceable part. So the DVR, as a unit, is "bad", and should technically be replaced. However, because I didn't want to hassle with getting a replacement, I simply attached an external drive. Which worked fine until "the glitch", which also, based on the results, caused issues for a disproportionately high percentage of other external drive users.

While it's probably too early to proclaim definitively that the drive is actually fine, preliminary results would suggest that there's actually nothing wrong with the drive: The DVR diagnostics repeatedly said there were no errors, yet it wouldn't boot with the drive. Western Digital diagnostics say there's nothing wrong with the drive. And after wiping the drive and re-attaching it to the DVR, it is (so far) working just fine.

So the results would lead ME to believe that "the glitch" imposed a data error on the drive that the DVR was simply unable to remove. Once it was removed with external tools, the DVR seems happy with the drive. I'm not sure why would think there's a 60/40 chance the drive was the problem. :confused:


Glad to see you have a resolution. I own the R22 so I may get the security torx and run some utils on the drive to wipe it clean. I'm guessing that the system is doing some type of CHKDSK each time I reboot. It's only been doing this over the last couple of NRs.

#50 OFFLINE   worker

worker

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 08:12 PM

One of my HR-22's would not recover. It was stuck at step 1 of 2. After numerous reboots I finally ran the advanced disk test on it. It hung at 11% for essentially 2 days. Pulled the drive and tried to run WD diagnostics on it and it won't even spin up. Had a spare WD 1.5gb EADS sitting here so installed it and all is well. I doubt the guide issue killed it, it was probably on the way out and maybe this just helped it along.




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