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DIRECTV Satellite Discussion D-14 @99W


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#51 OFFLINE   doctor j

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 12:36 PM

The FCC assigns separate call signs for each RF payload package. Indeed, the Directv 12 satellite bus carries 2 separate call signs, one for the Ka and one for BSS bands. The last time I dug through the authorizations, this was what I came up with:

[B][U]FCC Call Sign	Satellite Common Name[/U][/B]
S2430		Directv 4S
S2629		Directv 3
S2630		Directv 2
S2657, S2627	Directv 1
S2369		Directv 1R
S2455		Directv 7S
S2673, S2417	Directv 5
S2628, S2656	Directv 6
S2632		Directv 8 DBS
S2132 		Directv 8 Ka
S2669		Directv 9S DBS
S2689 		Directv 9S Ka
S2133 		Spaceway 2
S2191 		Spaceway 1
S2640 		Directv 11
S2641 		Directv 10
S2796		Directv 12/RB-2A (BSS)
S2797		Directv 12/RB-2A (Ka)
S2693		Directv 13  (110W) ([B]surrendered authorization[/B])
S2711		Directv 14/RB-1 (Directv BSS-99W)
S2712		RB-2 (Directv BSS-103W)
S2242		RB-3 (107W ???) ([B]surrendered authorization[/B])
S2243		RB-4 ([B]101W originally, now 110W[/B])
S2244		RB-5 (119W) ([B]surrendered authorization[/B])
S2788		Directv 97W (FSS band) ([B]dismissed by delegated authority[/B])


A review of FCC filings reveals a few confusing duplicates.

Your list is extensive but did not mention:
S2679 a duplicate of the KA payload on D-8 (S2132)
S2688 a duplicate of the KA payload on D-9S (S2689)
S2692 a duplicate of the DBS replacement at 110 later withdrawn (D-13 S2693)

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#52 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 12:39 PM

A review of FCC filings reveals a few confusing duplicates.

Your list is extensive but did not mention:
S2679 a duplicate of the KA payload on D-8 (S2132)
S2688 a duplicate of the KA payload on D-9S (S2689)
S2692 a duplicate of the DBS replacement at 110 later withdrawn (D-13 S2693)

Doctor j


Yep, I left off some of the confusing entries, although in retrospect I can't remember how I decided which duplicate to leave off. :grin:

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#53 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 12:42 PM

Yep, it's fairly complicated. Some day I need to go back and re-review everything again, but since we had until June 2013 for the next launch, figured we'd have a breather for a while. :)
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#54 OFFLINE   tkrandall

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 12:43 PM

Does DirecTV have the 99w and 103w BSS slots all to themselves? Is/was the 99 allocation to be split with another party?

#55 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 12:47 PM

Does DirecTV have the 99w and 103w BSS slots all to themselves? Is/was the 99 allocation to be split with another party?

The FCC approvals from 7/28/2009 ... the Notes are from early September last time I checked:

[table="header"]FCC Application|Company|Callsign|Slot|Notes
SAT-LOA-20050210-00031|Intelsat|S2662|91°|Surrendered
SAT-LOA-20060412-00042|Pegasus|S2698|91°|Surrendered
|
SAT-LOA-20060908-00099|DirecTV|S2711|99°|Paid (RB-1)
SAT-LOA-20050210-00029|Intelsat|S2660|99°|Surrendered
|
SAT-LOA-20060908-00100|DirecTV |S2712|103°|Paid (RB-2)
|
SAT-LOA-19970605-00049|DirecTV| S2242|107°|Surrendered
SAT-LOA-20020328-00052|EchoStar|S2442|107°|Paid
SAT-LOA-20060412-00043|Pegasus|S2699|107°|Surrendered
|
SAT-LOA-20020328-00051|EchoStar|S2441|111°|Paid
SAT-LOA-19970605-00050|DirecTV| S2243|111°|Paid (RB-4)
[/table]

This was the last I looked at it (above).
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#56 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 01:34 PM

Does DirecTV have the 99w and 103w BSS slots all to themselves? Is/was the 99 allocation to be split with another party?


AFAIK DirecTV presently has 99 W all to themselves for BSS (Reverse-DBS) service, but is in dispute with the "Ciel Satellite Group" of Ottawa Canada for 103 W.

#57 OFFLINE   tkrandall

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 01:44 PM

AFAIK DirecTV presently has 99 W all to themselves for BSS (Reverse-DBS) service, but is in dispute with the "Ciel Satellite Group" of Ottawa Canada for 103 W.


You mean Canada does not have slots to themselves and have to fight for 103w? (or is this an Echostar play since they have use of the Ku Ciel bird at 72.7?)

I did not recall intelsat gave up on the 99 bid.

I am not sure I see how 111w fits long term with DirecTV's core "arc" of 99-103. Perhaps internationals and western market locals?

Speaking of Echostar, they have a BSS slot or two for their eastern arc as well do they not?

#58 OFFLINE   evan_s

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 04:02 PM

You mean Canada does not have slots to themselves and have to fight for 103w? (or is this an Echostar play since they have use of the Ku Ciel bird at 72.7?)

I did not recall intelsat gave up on the 99 bid.

I am not sure I see how 111w fits long term with DirecTV's core "arc" of 99-103. Perhaps internationals and western market locals?

Speaking of Echostar, they have a BSS slot or two for their eastern arc as well do they not?


As I recall the ITU allowed both Canada and the US to grant licenses for 103 for BSS. In the past they have only allowed one or the other to grant licenses for a particular slot. Because the Canadian government worked faster, Ciel did get their application to the ITU first so they have priority for using BSS at 103. The assumption is that should be for canadian coverage basically leaving DirecTV to avoid interfering with their signal but they have also tried to argue that any usage by DirecTV poses an interference risk so shouldn't be allowed. Thus my expectation that it will end up being used for spots for locals as Conus is not going to be possible with out interference problems.

I don't think it will be used for locals as they seem to already have a nice hunk of bandwidth at 103 BSS which is pretty much limited to just that. Specialty programing, like international channels seems likely. It is nicely located near 110 and should work well as part of an SL6. It might even fight into the existing stack plan with 110/119 since it's a shared BSS slot and BSS is already short a few TPs.

I do recall some BSS slots for Echostart and the eastern arc too but don't have details handy.

Edited by evan_s, 04 February 2011 - 04:07 PM.


#59 OFFLINE   wmb

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Posted 06 February 2011 - 11:48 AM

Yep, I left off some of the confusing entries, although in retrospect I can't remember how I decided which duplicate to leave off. :grin:


I guess what would help my confusion is getting an answer to this... How many satellites are they on the hook to launch, and by when. From the listing, it looks like we will see the following launched:

RB-1 (along with DirecTV 14) at 99W
RB-2 at 103W
RB-4 at 110W

Of these, only RB-1/DirecTV 14 is under contract.

Of course, I also am one who likes to think of these birds as "black boxes" that magicly make them moving pictures show up on that flat panel thing on the other side of the room. :rolleyes:

#60 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 06 February 2011 - 12:10 PM

I guess what would help my confusion is getting an answer to this... How many satellites are they on the hook to launch, and by when. From the listing, it looks like we will see the following launched:

RB-1 (along with DirecTV 14) at 99W
RB-2 at 103W
RB-4 at 110W

Of these, only RB-1/DirecTV 14 is under contract.

Of course, I also am one who likes to think of these birds as "black boxes" that magicly make them moving pictures show up on that flat panel thing on the other side of the room. :rolleyes:


That's actually an interesting question. There are certain regulatory milestones that Directv MUST by law meet with regard to these licenses, barring some kind of petition for relief for special circumstances. I think they have a year or so to decide what to do with the RB-2 and RB-4 allocations, but I haven't looked at the timeline lately. Sixto probably has all that stuff memorized by now. :grin:

However, it's not just additional bandwidth that has to be considered, it's maintenance of existing bandwidth. Per their recent investor presentations, some of the older Ku birds are nearing their design lifespan. D5 has less than 3-1/2 years of life expectancy left, although it has fuel for quite a bit longer. But it's not just station-keeping fuel that determines lifespan. There's also transponder health, spacecraft electronics/control systems, solar array and battery health, etc. Only Directv's technical staff know how the spacecraft is doing as it gets older, but age-related degradation is a fact of life in engineering. Next up on the "lifespan report" is D4S with predicted lifespan in late 2016, and then D8 and SW1 in mid-2017, and SW2 in mid-2018 . . . so one hopes that Directv has a well thought-out plan for the mid-term future going forward.

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#61 OFFLINE   SPACEMAKER

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Posted 06 February 2011 - 02:21 PM

So basically I have no hope of getting HD locals in DMA 115 until 2014 at the earliest. Total crock of s***.

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#62 OFFLINE   aa9vi

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 02:30 PM

So basically I have no hope of getting HD locals in DMA 115 until 2014 at the earliest. Total crock of s***.


Buy the AM21 and an outdoor antenna. You'll get your locals then.

#63 OFFLINE   SPACEMAKER

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 04:53 PM

Buy the AM21 and an outdoor antenna. You'll get your locals then.


I have an AM21 connected to an HR24 and all of my locals come in nicely. At the time of my post I had an HR20 and I was having severe multi-path issues. Every thing is working great now.:)

But still, not getting HD locals in DMA115 is pathetic. And no one seems to be able to explain why which pretty frustrating.

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#64 ONLINE   Shades228

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 08:20 PM

I have an AM21 connected to an HR24 and all of my locals come in nicely. At the time of my post I had an HR20 and I was having severe multi-path issues. Every thing is working great now.:)

But still, not getting HD locals in DMA115 is pathetic. And no one seems to be able to explain why which pretty frustrating.


Because of $$.

:backtotop

#65 OFFLINE   ejjames

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 01:02 AM

In my parents town of Minot, ND, they finally got locals last year except for FOX, which is odd because in Minot, both FOX and ABC are owned by the same company.

Don't ask me why anyone in that town would sign up for LIL when you still need an antenna for FOX. Also, the "local" affiliate is the Bismarck affiliate 90 miles away.
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#66 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 01:27 AM

In my parents town of Minot, ND, they finally got locals last year except for FOX, which is odd because in Minot, both FOX and ABC are owned by the same company.

Don't ask me why anyone in that town would sign up for LIL when you still need an antenna for FOX. Also, the "local" affiliate is the Bismarck affiliate 90 miles away.


And again: :backtotop PLEASE!

#67 OFFLINE   adkinsjm

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Posted 12 March 2011 - 08:51 AM

In my parents town of Minot, ND, they finally got locals last year except for FOX, which is odd because in Minot, both FOX and ABC are owned by the same company.

Don't ask me why anyone in that town would sign up for LIL when you still need an antenna for FOX. Also, the "local" affiliate is the Bismarck affiliate 90 miles away.


Not true. The ABC affiliate is owned by Forum Communications and the FOX affiliate is owned by Prime Cities Broadcasting. FOX used to operate the ABC affiliate, but now the CBS affiliate operates the ABC station.

BTW, all of the Big Four networks have full-power transmitters in Minot. That's why they have their own call signs.

I lived in Dickinson until a few weeks ago and the CBS, NBC, and PBS stations had their own call signs. ABC is carried as a digital subchannel off the CBS station, while FOX is operating as a translator.


The reason FOX isn't carried is that News Corp. want a piece of the fees that DirecTV would pay the affiliate. News Corp. isn't approving any new retransmission consent agreement for non-owned stations.

#68 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 12 March 2011 - 10:22 AM

adkinsjm,
Could tell me what is your side thread have common with the thread's topic ?

#69 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 07:56 PM

A little satellite stuff from last week:

http://fjallfoss.fcc...w?id=7021346616

Older:

http://fjallfoss.fcc...w?id=7021341540

http://fjallfoss.fcc...w?id=7021341538 <-- good stuff in here


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#70 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 09:00 PM

Yeah, I'd like last page - a picture.

#71 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 08:49 AM

Ok so they can get away with 0.2 degree spacing instead of 0.4 degree now? That's an improvement.

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#72 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 08:50 AM

Ok so they can get away with 0.2 degree spacing instead of 0.4 degree now? That's an improvement.

The most important is what license(s) you can get.
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#73 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 09:02 AM

Think the limit is actually .25° to be exact. But these are co-location distances not separately resolvable by the subscriber dish.

#74 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 11:53 AM

From FCC papers:

licensed DTV Ka:

99.115 W
99.225

100.85
101.10

102.765
102.815
102.925

and 17/24 GHz BSS:

99.175

102.765
102.825

110.9

#75 OFFLINE   doctor j

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 09:09 AM

Given this info today:

http://licensing.fcc...erC/File Number

Modification to add Puerto Rico beam to CONUS antenna and slightly adjust orbital slot from 99.175 to 99.235.

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