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DIRECTV Satellite Discussion D-14 @99W


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#1051 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 01:01 PM

I can't believe I'm only one here who have spectrum analyzers and do fall in awkward position when I'm going against official papers



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#1052 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 04:52 PM

So "8 contiguous 62.5 MHz channels". Keyword, 'contiguous'. As in, no guard bands between channels in that 8 x 62.5 = 500 MHz range.

 

Sounds to me like it could output something that mimics what you'd get from a normal satellite using 36 MHz wide transponders separated by guard bands. In that respect, it sounds very much like what the FCC application states the 250 and 500 MHz wideband Ka transponders on D8 & D9S are capable of (though currently they're apparently only being used to output a single wideband signal to make maximum use of the bandwidth available to them)


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#1053 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 08:19 PM

I can't believe I'm only one here who have spectrum analyzers and do fall in awkward position when I'm going against official papers

 

Are you being intentionally difficult or do you really not comprehend what HoTat2 posted? It seems slice1900 gets it just fine.


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#1054 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 02:48 PM

Oh well ... 

 

According to the correspondent keeping tabs on the latest Arianespace scheduling info. at the NasaSpaceFlight.com Forum, D14's launch has been now been bumped to sometime in 2014's second quarter.

 

From "Salo";

 

"NET second quarter - DirecTV 14 - Ariane 5 ECA - Kourou ELA-3"

 

 

Not really sure what "NET" means, but I assume it's synonymous to "sometime within."  

 

Don't know if Arianespace is behind schedule or SS/L or both, but either way looks like a February launch is off. :(

 

Guess I should have anticipated as much, as I really felt things were moving along a little too briskly and setback-free for D14's launch to take place in early '14 given the nature of this business.   


Edited by HoTat2, 01 December 2013 - 02:48 PM.

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#1055 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 01:57 AM

OK "NET" apparently means;

 

"No Earlier Than."

 

So D14's launch has been bumped to " 'No earlier than' the second quarter of 2014." according to the Nasaspaceflight.com Forum's thread for the Arianespace launch schedule anyhow. 


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#1056 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:14 AM

According to the correspondent keeping tabs on the latest Arianespace scheduling info. at the NasaSpaceFlight.com Forum, D14's launch has been now been bumped to sometime in 2014's second quarter.

That's old news. See post 987.

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#1057 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 10:45 AM

That's old news. See post 987.

You're right;

 

Should have kept better tabs on that site.

 

Sorry for the outdated info.,

 

And even more sorry I've been repeating that prospective February launch date in other threads recently. 

 

As I said, got to remember to keep the frequent delay/rescheduling-ridden nature of this business in mind when posting definitive dates for launches.    


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#1058 OFFLINE   HarleyD

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 01:13 PM

If every Arianne launch was not pushed back then I have to suppose that this is coming from either DirecTV or SS/L.

 

However I'm not necessarily saying that there's a "problem".   It could have been decided to hold off for any number of reasons.  Anything from hardware to software to firmware to peopleware. 

 

Any word if D15 is being pushed out to 2015?


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#1059 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 02:49 PM

Heck someone could have paid DIRECTV to swap launch dates even. In sure that kind of thing happens sometimes.

#1060 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:32 AM

Heck someone could have paid DIRECTV to swap launch dates even. In sure that kind of thing happens sometimes.

As the original DIRECTV 15 announcement said that DIRECTV 14 had been "accelerated" due to the impending failure of DIRECTV 10, I kinda doubt that they would have agreed to step aside unless they're supremely confident that DIRECTV 10's backup propulsion system isn't going to fail.

http://www.spacenews...lecom-satellite

As SS/L is usually quite good with their on-time deliveries (assuming there aren't a mountain of change orders), I suspect the delay must lie with either Ariane (engine sourcing?) or DIRECTV.

DIRECTV 15 seems to be unrelated to DIRECTV 10 or DIRECTV 14 so I can't imagine why they would change its schedule unless one of the 101W satellites gets crufty or the whole Ariane schedule is sliding.

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#1061 OFFLINE   HarleyD

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 10:37 AM

Engine sourcing?

 

Now spaceflight is admittedly not my forte, but unless each launch vehicle uses a unique, custom engine I would expect a problem of that nature to be systemic and not confined to a single launch.

 

Not to mention the idea that they would be sourcing components for the launch vehicle four or five months prior to the estimated launch date is almost incomprehesible.  With the manufacturer's lead times on high ticket niche market components like those in the aerospace industry this seems like the kind of thing that would have been accounted for in a manufacturing schedule and capacity planning two years ago when they committed to the launch. 

 

It's not as if they can order a crate motor from Summitt Racing and bolt it into the launch vehicle.


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#1062 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 11:18 AM

Yep

And besides d10 isn't in imminent failure. It's a concern that it's runnin a backup instead of a main system. No one has said its about to die, they have said they want to be ready in case it did. Massive difference.

#1063 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 12:46 PM

DIRECTV 15 seems to be unrelated to DIRECTV 10 or DIRECTV 14 so I can't imagine why they would change its schedule unless one of the 101W satellites gets crufty or the whole Ariane schedule is sliding.

 

 

What do you mean D15 is unrelated to D14? They have the exact same transponder package, so the design of the two is pretty similar (though they do have different power capability)

 

They won't be using their transponders in exactly the same way, since D14 will provide Ka hi from 99, but that is already provided from 103 where D15 seems likely to be destined.

 

I don't know much about how satellite launches go, but since it would take some time to set up each individual rocket and launch it, I assume there's a sort of queue of launches. If (just as an example) D14 is in a launch that's #6 in line and D15 is #12 in line, whether a delay of D14 affects D15 depends on the source of D14's delay. If it is a matter only affecting D14, where it is moved from #6 to #7 in line for some reason, then D15 is unaffected. If it is a matter where everything gets pushed back a few weeks, perhaps due to some maintenance needs at the launch facility, the same delay that affects D14 would also affect D15.


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#1064 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 02:26 PM

What do you mean D15 is unrelated to D14? They have the exact same transponder package, so the design of the two is pretty similar (though they do have different power capability)

 

They won't be using their transponders in exactly the same way, since D14 will provide Ka hi from 99, but that is already provided from 103 where D15 seems likely to be destined. ...

 

 

 

Were you able to find any further information about D15's planned Ka band payload for exactly which portion of the band it will be on? Or maybe if the CONUS beam transponders will be on one and the spotbeams on the other?

 

I can't locate much of anything further on D15 yet, beyond the old PR about Astrium being selected to build it and the mention that it will have 24 Ka band transponders. 

 

As it would really seem to make the most sense that if D15 is indeed destined for 103, the CONUS tps. would be on B-band to take over for the ones on D10, and the spotbeam package to be on A-band to take the place of Spaceway 1's and fully utilize all the 8 original transponder channels assigned to A-band.   


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#1065 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 02:59 PM

Sorry, I guess I misspoke. What is identical between them is the RDBS package. I didn't really look for information on Ka & Ku, since I was only looking for RDBS. There may be differences there.


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#1066 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:36 PM

Not relevant to D14 and D15, but perhaps to future Directv launches. SpaceX had their first successful launch of a geostationary satellite today, lifting SES-8 into orbit.

 

Another option (this time a private American company) for Directv to consider for future launches.


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#1067 OFFLINE   satlaunch

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 12:35 AM

SpaceX launch log is overload in next 3-4 years. I do not imagine how they will open a slot for DirecTV satellites.



#1068 OFFLINE   HarleyD

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 08:03 AM

SpaceX needs more than one successful launch before I would put my eggs in that basket.

 

I wish them well and hope they are successful, but if it's up to me I'm not hanging the lifeblood of my business on their learning curve


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#1069 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 09:11 AM

And besides d10 isn't in imminent failure. It's a concern that it's runnin a backup instead of a main system. No one has said its about to die, they have said they want to be ready in case it did.

Just going by what the article said.

I suspect that there aren't too many options should the backup fail given the tone.

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#1070 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 09:18 AM

Another option (this time a private American company) for Directv to consider for future launches.

As DIRECTV's satellites are among the heaviest in the business, time will tell but DIRECTV 14 weighs a little less than double SES8 and that limits options significantly.

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#1071 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 11:14 AM

ALL satellite launch schedules slip...the initial dates are always optimistic, and almost always slip by an average of a quarter.  In particular, Ariane is notorious for delays (for lots of reasons, including damage to launch pad from previous launches, weather, spacecraft integration issues, etc.).

 

SeaLaunch being out of operation had overloaded launch schedules at Canaveral, Baikonur and Kourou and is still being felt.  This delay is not surprising.


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#1072 OFFLINE   georule

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 11:29 AM

About time for the kibitzers to make their return to this thread. And look, there's one now! (he said, looking in the mirror).


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#1073 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 01:12 PM

It's good to see SpaceX enter the commercial launch market but it'll be awhile before they are in a position to make a strong bid for most Directv launches. The F9 has a maximum published payload of about 4,850 kg to a standard GTO. The last 3 Directv satellites massed over 6,000 kg at launch. I don't have a reference handy, but I think the SSL 1300 bus vehicles planned for D14 and 15 will be in the same general class, give or take. And in any case, SpaceX is booked for the next several years anyway. 

Once F9 Heavy flies, it'll have the payload capability (and a lot more, to boot) but cost may well be prohibitive. The "regular" F9 is undersized for Directv's fleet, but F9H is well over-sized. :shrug:

 

In any case, Arianespace is busy, busy, busy, with three different launchers now operating out of Kourou (Ariane 5, Vega and Soyuz). Well, maybe 4 if you count the two main variants of Ariane 5. As Diana points out, slips on their end aren't that uncommon. A few months either way won't matter anyway over the course of a 15+ year operating life.


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#1074 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 02:21 PM

From D14's technical Schedule S;
 
Mass of spacecraft without fuel: 3,573.1 Kg
 
Mass of fuel and disposables at launch: 2,929.3 Kg
 
Mass of spacecraft and fuel at launch: 6,502.4 Kg
 
Nope, don't think SpaceX's F9 can handle it at present, even if it were available ...
 
:nono2: 
 

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#1075 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 02:24 PM

Just going by what the article said.

I suspect that there aren't too many options should the backup fail given the tone.


And i bet even if d10 fell out of the sky today nothing would get taken off the air.




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