Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo

DIRECTV Satellite Discussion D-14 @99W


  • Please log in to reply
2977 replies to this topic

#1201 OFFLINE   slice1900

slice1900

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 4,019 posts
  • LocationIowa
Joined: Feb 14, 2013

Posted 13 January 2014 - 12:26 PM

Band E is not capable of supporting the MoCA 2 bitrates if DECA is already there. E band is only 200MHz and DECA burns half of that with its 100MHz band. Assuming DECA remains to serve existing equipment, MoCA 2.0 will need F Band (675-850 center frequency). I'm pretty sure your assertion that bonding isn't needed is a pretty wild guess at this point.

 

If you want to continue this conversation elsewhere, you can start a new thread, we're polluting the D14 thread with a lot of irrelevant stuff. I think at this point I've come to the conclusion others already have, that you're not worth replying to because you just like to argue and find nonexistent problems with everything based on incorrect information or stuff you just made up.


SL5, PI-6S, SA-6AL 3xSWM16, 21 H20-100, 1 H20-600, 7 H24-700/AM21


#1202 OFFLINE   Diana C

Diana C

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 2,096 posts
  • LocationNew Jersey
Joined: Mar 30, 2007

Posted 13 January 2014 - 03:58 PM

Band E is not capable of supporting the MoCA 2 bitrates if DECA is already there. E band is only 200MHz and DECA burns half of that with its 100MHz band. Assuming DECA remains to serve existing equipment, MoCA 2.0 will need F Band (675-850 center frequency). I'm pretty sure your assertion that bonding isn't needed is a pretty wild guess at this point.

Which would be interesting, were it relevant. However, since the current implementation of MOCA 1.1 by DirecTV already has adequate bandwidth, who cares?

Dish Network Customer from 9/1998-11/2001
DirecTV Customer 10/2001 - 7/2014

FiOS TV/TiVo Customer since 6/2014
Moderator, DBSDish.com 1999-2000
Co-Founder and Administrator, DBSForums.com 2000-2006

Current setup:
DirecTV: HR34-700 (1TB) / HR24-100 (1TB) / HR24-500 (1TB) / HR21-700 (320GB) / HR21-100 (1TB) / 2 H25s / C41-500 / SWiM16 / Nomad / CCK

FiOS: 2 Tivo Roamio Pros (6 TB total) / 5 Tivo Minis attached via MOCA


#1203 OFFLINE   P Smith

P Smith

    Mr. FixAnything

  • Registered
  • 20,287 posts
  • LocationMediterranean Sea
Joined: Jul 25, 2002

Posted 13 January 2014 - 05:26 PM

MOCA talkers ? could you please _move_ your posts irrelevant  here to a thread with a relevant topic


Edited by P Smith, 13 January 2014 - 05:27 PM.


#1204 OFFLINE   slice1900

slice1900

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 4,019 posts
  • LocationIowa
Joined: Feb 14, 2013

Posted 16 January 2014 - 12:17 AM

Replying from the DSWM13 speculation thread, since this is more appropriate here given the D14's use of RDBS...

 

 

well, thinking of RDBS as new approach of delivering sat signal, my thoughts was it would be marked differently to show new range ... perhaps  is not ...

 

But it isn't a new approach, it is delivered in exactly the same manner as Ku, Ka lo or Ka hi. It is merely a fourth frequency range being used in addition to the three we currently have. They could have called it Ka C or Ka extra lo and it would work the same. It acquired the name RDBS since the frequency range has previously been used for uplinks, and its use now is the "reverse" of how it had been used before.

 

I would expect a LNB that receives from 99 / 103 / 103 that is current known as SL3/SL3S would continue to be numerically identified as a "3" if it adds reception of RDBS.


SL5, PI-6S, SA-6AL 3xSWM16, 21 H20-100, 1 H20-600, 7 H24-700/AM21


#1205 OFFLINE   P Smith

P Smith

    Mr. FixAnything

  • Registered
  • 20,287 posts
  • LocationMediterranean Sea
Joined: Jul 25, 2002

Posted 16 January 2014 - 01:42 AM

we should see it then, no more speculation



#1206 OFFLINE   shyvoodoo

shyvoodoo

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 112 posts
Joined: Jun 24, 2011

Posted 25 January 2014 - 11:55 PM

Im sorry if the question has been answer on previous pages but do we have a launch date for the D14 yet??

All I Want:

Universal Sports HD.
Pac 12 Network.


#1207 OFFLINE   P Smith

P Smith

    Mr. FixAnything

  • Registered
  • 20,287 posts
  • LocationMediterranean Sea
Joined: Jul 25, 2002

Posted 26 January 2014 - 12:21 AM

sorry - no sorry; please read a few pages back, the q posted a few times last month



#1208 OFFLINE   inkahauts

inkahauts

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 17,577 posts
Joined: Nov 13, 2006

Posted 26 January 2014 - 12:30 AM

No we don't have a specific date yet.

#1209 OFFLINE   peds48

peds48

    🙈🙉🙊📡

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 14,759 posts
  • LocationLong Island, NY
Joined: Jan 10, 2008

Posted 26 January 2014 - 08:15 AM

No we don't have a specific date yet.

you just killed the excitement of the OP having to read 60 pages to find out.... :rotfl:


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#1210 OFFLINE   HarleyD

HarleyD

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,326 posts
Joined: Aug 31, 2006

Posted 26 January 2014 - 09:36 AM

sorry - no sorry; please read a few pages back, the q posted a few times last month

And it will be reposted periodically since obviously the answer will change at some point.


"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible."
--Frank Zappa

#1211 OFFLINE   HarleyD

HarleyD

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,326 posts
Joined: Aug 31, 2006

Posted 26 January 2014 - 10:08 AM

Maybe I'm jumping the gun, but I would expect to hear an announcement for at least one more bird being contracted by DirecTV (D16?) before year's end.

 

I'm not an expert on satellite technology but between the lead time from contract to the completion of IOT taken together with the projected EOL of some of the existing fleet I would be led to believe that this process needs to be started sooner than later.

 

Unless of course D14&15 represent enough additional capacity that these two birds can expand existing capabilites AND replace one or two of the aging satellites currently in use.  Again, I'm not expert enough in the technology to analyze the type and number of transponders and know what that means in terms of the capacity that can be supported.

 

It just seems to me that some turnover is to be expected in the not too distant future and history indicates that the replacement process needs to get a move on.

 

Now everyone can tell me why I'm wrong.  :smoking:


Edited by HarleyD, 26 January 2014 - 10:10 AM.

"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible."
--Frank Zappa

#1212 OFFLINE   P Smith

P Smith

    Mr. FixAnything

  • Registered
  • 20,287 posts
  • LocationMediterranean Sea
Joined: Jul 25, 2002

Posted 26 January 2014 - 10:34 AM

And it will be reposted periodically since obviously the answer will change at some point.

if you're interesting in such type of topics, you should know - Mods changing its name when we're getting a factual date


Edited by P Smith, 26 January 2014 - 10:35 AM.


#1213 OFFLINE   HoTat2

HoTat2

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,698 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles, CA.
Joined: Nov 16, 2005

Posted 26 January 2014 - 11:27 AM

Maybe I'm jumping the gun, but I would expect to hear an announcement for at least one more bird being contracted by DirecTV (D16?) before year's end.

 

I'm not an expert on satellite technology but between the lead time from contract to the completion of IOT taken together with the projected EOL of some of the existing fleet I would be led to believe that this process needs to be started sooner than later.

 

Unless of course D14&15 represent enough additional capacity that these two birds can expand existing capabilites AND replace one or two of the aging satellites currently in use.  Again, I'm not expert enough in the technology to analyze the type and number of transponders and know what that means in terms of the capacity that can be supported.

 

It just seems to me that some turnover is to be expected in the not too distant future and history indicates that the replacement process needs to get a move on.

 

Now everyone can tell me why I'm wrong.  :smoking:

The thing is, expertise in the commercial communications satellite field notwithstanding, even an expert is sill largely limited to speculation on such matters because like you, they too are essentially on the outside looking in and trying to predict.

 

Unless you work for the branch of DIRECTV which is privy to the studies on the present status of their satellite fleet and future planning which would be corporate classified of course, there's no way to really know for sure until it actually appears in the FCC filings or mentioned at an investors conference or something.

 

But in the meantime discussions of such guesswork is nevertheless still interesting and fun. :grin:    


DIRECTV sub. since Sep. of '95


#1214 OFFLINE   LameLefty

LameLefty

    I used to be a rocket scientist

  • Registered
  • 12,181 posts
  • LocationMiddle Tennessee
Joined: Sep 28, 2006

Posted 26 January 2014 - 11:44 AM

Unless you work for the branch of DIRECTV which is privy to the studies on the present status of their satellite fleet and future planning which would be corporate classified of course, there's no way to really know for sure until it actually appears in the FCC filings or mentioned at an investors conference or something.

 

A year or two ago, Directv included fleet-life estimates in their Investor Day presentations. I posted about it in this very thread months ago and shared some of the concerns HarleyD has.  Well, "concern" may be too strong a word - "interest," perhaps, sums up my feelings better. If not this year, then next certainly I expect to hear some information regarding the future of the older Ku satellites as well as possibly the ones doing Ka backhauls. 

 

By contrast, the most recent Investor Day presentation did not include such information so far as I noticed.


"Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!"
Directv since 1997
Will Work for Beer


#1215 OFFLINE   inkahauts

inkahauts

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 17,577 posts
Joined: Nov 13, 2006

Posted 26 January 2014 - 01:51 PM

Isn't predicting the life if a sat always a bit of a no in target as well? Kind if like my car that tells me when I fill it up I have a range of 200 miles but that's because I've been driving on city streets and 30 minutes after being on a freeway it'll say 400 miles instead?

I have been wondering if d15 isn't going to be headed to 101 if d14 is successfully launched.

#1216 OFFLINE   slice1900

slice1900

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 4,019 posts
  • LocationIowa
Joined: Feb 14, 2013

Posted 26 January 2014 - 02:31 PM

LameLefty, is this the Investor Day graphic you were talking about?

 

D4S looks to be the only one that will run out of fuel before 2020. Maybe inkahauts is right and D15 will go to 101, but if not it appears they still have time to build and launch another satellite for 101 before D4S must be retired. According to Gary's spreadsheet, it looks to be sharing spot beam duty with D9S. Is there any way to know how much of that load it is actually carrying? If it is doing little or nothing now, would that potentially extend its life so it can remain on backup duty longer?

 

Without knowing how far beyond 2020 the fuel bars for SW1, SW2 and D8 go, and what else may have happened to them that could end their service life before the fuel runs out, we don't know whether 101 or 103 would be considered the most "in need".

 

The big unknown is what Directv's plans for 110 and 119 are. If the satellites serving them last beyond 2020, is that "good enough" and they won't be replaced? Dish uses those slots more heavily, maybe Directv could make a deal with Dish for a no-cost lease of capacity to serve 110 & 119, in exchange for slowly giving up those slots to Dish as Directv phases out MPEG2. That would be a win for both companies, Dish gets more capacity in the future, and Directv avoids the expense of having to replace the satellites at 110 and 119.

 

 

post-27544-136593731855.jpg


Edited by slice1900, 26 January 2014 - 02:33 PM.

SL5, PI-6S, SA-6AL 3xSWM16, 21 H20-100, 1 H20-600, 7 H24-700/AM21


#1217 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Super Moderators
  • 41,369 posts
  • LocationMichiana
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 26 January 2014 - 04:02 PM

The big unknown is what Directv's plans for 110 and 119 are. If the satellites serving them last beyond 2020, is that "good enough" and they won't be replaced? Dish uses those slots more heavily, maybe Directv could make a deal with Dish for a no-cost lease of capacity to serve 110 & 119, in exchange for slowly giving up those slots to Dish as Directv phases out MPEG2. That would be a win for both companies, Dish gets more capacity in the future, and Directv avoids the expense of having to replace the satellites at 110 and 119.


I can see a deal for 110 ... three transponders is not a lot of space and the cost of maintaining that slot may not be worth the trouble to DirecTV ... but the 11 transponders is a lot of space. I don't see DirecTV giving that up. Especially to a competitor.

DirecTV could lease transponders from DISH to operate their three transponders. The deal SkyAngel had with DISH allowed DISH to use six of SkyAngel's licensed transponders for DISH programming in exchange for uplinking two transponders for SkyAngel. (With other facets to the deal.) Eventually SkyAngel moved to IPTV and transferred their 8 licenses to DISH. DISH's 110 ConUS beam covers all of the US, Hawaii and Puerto Rico so it would be a good transponder to rent. DISH may appreciate the cash for leasing 110 more than the space ... although space for another 27 HD channels would not be bad. :)
Welcome to DBS Talk - Let's talk about DBS! (The Digital Bit Stream)
DISH Network vs DirecTV: HD Channel List - DISH Network HD Capacity, HD Conversion and more.
DISH Network complete channel lists and lists by satellite location are in The Uplink Activity Center.
Unless otherwise noted, I speak for myself. Content is not controlled by DISH Network, DirecTV or any other company.

#1218 OFFLINE   inkahauts

inkahauts

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 17,577 posts
Joined: Nov 13, 2006

Posted 26 January 2014 - 04:17 PM

I don't see any renting of space between the two companies Myself. I could see a trade if DIRECTV could swap their three 110 spots for three that dish has at 119 or maybe 101 99 or 103 if dish even has anything there that they could and would trade.

#1219 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Super Moderators
  • 41,369 posts
  • LocationMichiana
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 26 January 2014 - 04:32 PM

I don't see any renting of space between the two companies Myself. I could see a trade if DIRECTV could swap their three 110 spots for three that dish has at 119 or maybe 101 99 or 103 if dish even has anything there that they could and would trade.


DISH doesn't have anything at the three locations you mention ... and trading three at 119 for 110 would not help DISH, so there is no incentive.
Welcome to DBS Talk - Let's talk about DBS! (The Digital Bit Stream)
DISH Network vs DirecTV: HD Channel List - DISH Network HD Capacity, HD Conversion and more.
DISH Network complete channel lists and lists by satellite location are in The Uplink Activity Center.
Unless otherwise noted, I speak for myself. Content is not controlled by DISH Network, DirecTV or any other company.

#1220 OFFLINE   inkahauts

inkahauts

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 17,577 posts
Joined: Nov 13, 2006

Posted 26 January 2014 - 04:35 PM

Which is why I think nothing will ever really get traded with dish to be honest.

#1221 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Super Moderators
  • 41,369 posts
  • LocationMichiana
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 26 January 2014 - 05:21 PM

Which is why I think nothing will ever really get traded with dish to be honest.

DISH uses nearly all of their 21 transponders for uplinks to 119 ... so giving up any three would mean they would have to give up the spotbeams uplinked on those three transponders. Giving up three 119 transponders would not make their next 119 satellite cheaper (unlike DirecTV who would not need a satellite at all at 110). I believe there were discussions in the past about swapping transponders so DirecTV could leave 110 - but DISH is probably better off just waiting until DirecTV is willing to abandon the transponders completely. Which won't be soon.
Welcome to DBS Talk - Let's talk about DBS! (The Digital Bit Stream)
DISH Network vs DirecTV: HD Channel List - DISH Network HD Capacity, HD Conversion and more.
DISH Network complete channel lists and lists by satellite location are in The Uplink Activity Center.
Unless otherwise noted, I speak for myself. Content is not controlled by DISH Network, DirecTV or any other company.

#1222 OFFLINE   LameLefty

LameLefty

    I used to be a rocket scientist

  • Registered
  • 12,181 posts
  • LocationMiddle Tennessee
Joined: Sep 28, 2006

Posted 26 January 2014 - 06:19 PM

LameLefty, is this the Investor Day graphic you were talking about?

 

D4S looks to be the only one that will run out of fuel before 2020. 

 

I've posted about this same thing before, but fuel life is one thing, and is pretty much a solid estimate based on known use rate and fuel capacity. Another thing, and one much more important in the grand scheme of things, is design life. A satellite with 10 more years' worth of useful propellant is utterly worthless if it's solar arrays degrade to the point that they aren't able to keep the batteries charged; it's also worthless if the satellite control processors fail, or the sun trackers (attitude control) die, or if internal heaters fail ... 

 

There are THOUSANDS of components to a spacecraft and many of them are pretty darn important. ;)  In fact, given the net cost of mass-to-GSO, ALL of them are pretty darn important. When key components fail, fuel remaining doesn't matter much anymore. That's why that deign lifetime line is on the chart; the design life is based on statistical analysis of all the key components, redundancies, etc. While real-life performance for many individual parts might exceed design lifetime, COUNTING on them to continue doing so year after year is a dangerous and ultimately foolish bet. 

 

That, and the several year lead time necessary to procure, prepare and begin operating a new satellite is why I still expect to begin hearing noises about replacements for the older satellites any time now, really. 


"Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!"
Directv since 1997
Will Work for Beer


#1223 OFFLINE   Gary Toma

Gary Toma

    UNIX

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 2,066 posts
Joined: Mar 22, 2006

Posted 27 January 2014 - 03:34 PM

......D4S looks to be the only one that will run out of fuel before 2020. Maybe inkahauts is right and D15 will go to 101, but if not it appears they still have time to build and launch another satellite for 101 before D4S must be retired. According to Gary's spreadsheet, it looks to be sharing spot beam duty with D9S. Is there any way to know how much of that load it is actually carrying? If it is doing little or nothing now, would that potentially extend its life so it can remain on backup duty longer?

 

 

 

We have 6 TPNs of Spot Beams provided by D4S or D9S.  Within those specific TPNs, we cannot distinguish which channels originate from D4S or from D9S.  We do know that D9S is providing 10 TPNs of CONUS beams.

 

Looking at the 'Channel Count' tab of the TPN Map, we know D9S provides 156 CONUS channels and that D4S and D9S together provide 520 LIL SD channels.




#1224 OFFLINE   longrider

longrider

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 3,525 posts
  • LocationElizabeth, CO
Joined: Apr 21, 2007

Posted 27 January 2014 - 07:41 PM

LameLafty, I have a somewhat off the wall question.  I know when a satellite reaches EOL for whatever reason it is pushed out to a graveyard orbit where it cant do any damage.  I also know (or would certainly hope) that they would never let the propellant get low enough to prevent said parking. However, what are the odds of a mechanical or control failure that would keep ground control  from moving it?   I realize how vast space is and the odds of even a drifting sat hitting anything is rather slim, but still....


My Setup

#1225 OFFLINE   inkahauts

inkahauts

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 17,577 posts
Joined: Nov 13, 2006

Posted 27 January 2014 - 09:33 PM

Actually haven't they change the rules were now you have to actually de orbit and destroy it by you having it reenter Earth's atmosphere?




Protected By... spam firewall...And...