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DIRECTV Satellite Discussion D-14


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#351 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 10:22 AM

Fuel only becomes an issue if station keeping gyroscopes fail and they have to use extra thrusting to maintain orientation (or they have to shuttle the satellite back and forth to a repair slot as was the case with D10).

gyroscopes are using as source to measure position/angles not to rotate the bus - perhaps you mean momentum wheels

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#352 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 10:41 AM

but in this case, isn't there a trade off between adding transponders and additional fuel for station keeping in terms of launch weight?


I believe weight has a big play. The more transponders, the heavier. If they are all designed to be on at the same time, the corresponding weight of the additional batteries/cells, solar panels, and most everything increases. I really don't think the fuel would need to be increases, as being weightless in space shouldn't require any additional fuel for station-keeping.

Launch costs would increase as well, as I believe I read that one of DirecTv's recent launches was either near or at the rockets weight capacity, or broke a record or something along those lines.

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#353 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 11:48 AM

I believe weight has a big play. The more transponders, the heavier. If they are all designed to be on at the same time, the corresponding weight of the additional batteries/cells, solar panels, and most everything increases. I really don't think the fuel would need to be increases, as being weightless in space shouldn't require any additional fuel for station-keeping.


Mass is definitely a factor in how much fuel is needed for station keeping and other operations. Force = mass x acceleration. But I stand by my assertion that fuel mass isn't the driver in how the spacecraft is ultimately outfitted. See my earlier posts on this.

Launch costs would increase as well, as I believe I read that one of DirecTv's recent launches was either near or at the rockets weight capacity, or broke a record or something along those lines.


Launch costs are not based on mass. Launch providers have essentially fixed overhead costs. They charge most customers more or less the same amount to put anything that will fit inside one of their standard payload fairings into a standard transfer orbit, up to the maximum amount their launcher can lift.

Some launchers have higher payload weights than others - If Directv could afford to pay half a billion dollars to ULA, they could buy a ride on a Delta IV Heavy and put over 13,000 kg into a standard GTO. But they're not stupid and instead will ride on an Ariane V, which is probably more expensive than a Proton from ILS but which also has more payload capability and better recent record of success. Since it's launching from a near-equatorial launch site, the satellite also should have a shorter time from launch to operation than ILS can manage with its high-latitude launch site in Kazakhstan.

Like I've been saying, LOTS of trade-offs in satellite design and mission planning.

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#354 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 11:50 AM

I believe weight has a big play. The more transponders, the heavier. If they are all designed to be on at the same time, the corresponding weight of the additional batteries/cells, solar panels, and most everything increases. I really don't think the fuel would need to be increases, as being weightless in space shouldn't require any additional fuel for station-keeping.

Launch costs would increase as well, as I believe I read that one of DirecTv's recent launches was either near or at the rockets weight capacity, or broke a record or something along those lines.


Oh ... I thought is would actually;

If I remember my basic phizzes correctly (been awhile :) ), even in the weightlessness of space the more massive the satellite, or any other spaceborne body for that matter, requires more energy thereby greater fuel consumption to accelerate or decelerate it for station keeping maneuvers.

#355 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 11:57 AM

Oh ... I thought is would actually;

If I remember my basic phizzes correctly (been awhile :) ), even in the weightlessness of space the more massive the satellite, or any other spaceborne body for that matter, requires more energy thereby greater fuel consumption to accelerate or decelerate it for station keeping maneuvers.


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#356 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 12:04 PM

Okay, I dug around and found out the details on the satellites Directv will be licensing from Intelsat. They are going to 95ºW for Latin American service.

http://www.ssloral.c...pr20110908.html

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#357 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 07:47 PM

Some good news for Directv's constellation (especially for the many millions of customers still receiving SD locals) . . . Directv has applied for a 9 year extension to their license for D4S based on estimated fuel use.

(LINK REMOVED - see below)

Edited by LameLefty, 07 November 2011 - 08:12 PM.

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#358 OFFLINE   cforrest

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 07:59 PM

Some good news for Directv's constellation (especially for the many millions of customers still receiving SD locals) . . . Directv has applied for a 9 year extension to their license for D4S based on estimated fuel use.

http://licensing.fcc...erC/File Number


Not sure if it's just me, but the link to the filing is not working for me, fyi!

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#359 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 08:12 PM

Not sure if it's just me, but the link to the filing is not working for me, fyi!


Typical quirky-ass government website with odd-ball links. :) Try this one instead:

http://licensing.fcc...96318179&pgid=4

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#360 OFFLINE   TheRatPatrol

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 08:39 PM

Both links worked for me.

#361 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 08:42 PM

Some good news for Directv's constellation (especially for the many millions of customers still receiving SD locals) . . . Directv has applied for a 9 year extension to their license for D4S based on estimated fuel use.

(LINK REMOVED - see below)

Yep, saw that over the weekend. Good stuff, shame D10 wasn't as fortunate.
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#362 OFFLINE   wmb

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 08:49 PM

Yep, saw that over the weekend. Good stuff, shame D10 wasn't as fortunate.


<Devil's Advocate Hat>
Well, if they'd just do away with that pesky MPEG2 SD broadcasts, this would be 9 more years of broadcasting those HD basics we all want.:rolleyes:
</Devil's Advocate Hat>

#363 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 08:52 PM

<Devil's Advocate Hat>
Well, if they'd just do away with that pesky MPEG2 SD broadcasts, this would be 9 more years of broadcasting those HD basics we all want.:rolleyes:
</Devil's Advocate Hat>


Apples to oranges here. There are MILLIONS of customers still happily receiving SD channels. And D4S is a spot-beam satellite anyway. :)

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#364 OFFLINE   cforrest

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 08:53 PM

Typical quirky-ass government website with odd-ball links. :) Try this one instead:

http://licensing.fcc...96318179&pgid=4


That worked, thanks! Linking from the FCC can be a PITA.

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#365 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 06:34 AM

Apples to oranges here. D4S is a spot-beam satellite anyway. :)


Is that what the S stands for in D4S?

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#366 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 06:58 AM

Is that what the S stands for in D4S?


Yes, same as with D9S. Spot-beams were kind of a big deal in the late 90's/early 00's, and the satellites were designated that way to easily differentiate which ones were doing national beams and which were doing spots. Now, the current design trend is to include a mixture of national and spot-beam transponders and the 'S' has gone out of fashion.

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#367 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 06:58 PM

Arianespace to launch satellite for DIRECTV Latin America:

http://www.arianespa...011-DirecTV.asp


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#368 OFFLINE   lwilli201

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 07:38 PM

The last sentence in "About Arianespace" is interesting.

"It has a BACKLOG of 20 Ariane 5 and 17 Soyuz launches, equal to more than three years of business." (Emphasis mine)

Does this mean that they have 37 Sats in storage waiting for launch or should it state that they have contracts to launch 37 Sats in the next 3 years. Poorly worded I would think.
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#369 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 07:46 PM

Contracts only - no one sat mfg will store their sats at launch facility for more then necessary (usually a months or so).

#370 OFFLINE   lwilli201

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 07:58 PM

Contracts only - no one sat mfg will store their sats at launch facility for more then necessary (usually a months or so).


That is what I thought. Not good to have Billions of dollars worth of Sats setting around. Just thought the wording was interesting. :D
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#371 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 06:58 AM

The last sentence in "About Arianespace" is interesting.

"It has a BACKLOG of 20 Ariane 5 and 17 Soyuz launches, equal to more than three years of business." (Emphasis mine)

Does this mean that they have 37 Sats in storage waiting for launch or should it state that they have contracts to launch 37 Sats in the next 3 years. Poorly worded I would think.


Satellites are usually not delivered to the launch site until 2 - 4 weeks prior to launch, depending on the satellite and depending on the launch provider's policies. Most commercial satellite vehicles are delivered as essentially sealed packages - they are more or less "plugged into" the payload fairing of the launch vehicle by a team from the satellite manufacturer and the launch provider, installed at the top of the launcher vehicle and launched as soon as possible. Not a lot of waiting around at the launch site if it can be avoided.

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#372 OFFLINE   RobertE

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 04:46 PM

Oh snap. It just dawned on me that with the change in launch sites, we won't have our Russian "nominal" vixen. :(
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#373 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 04:50 PM

RF nerds - some technical filings early this week pertaining to expected off-axis signal strengths for the future BSS satellites RB-1 and RB-2 but nothing earth-shattering (except that the charts submitted to the FCC have Space Systems/Loral logos, which is interesting).

RB-1:
http://licensing.fcc...50811903&pgid=2

RB-2:
http://licensing.fcc...50811903&pgid=2

And for anyone else who is NOT an RF nerd, there is nothing whatsoever of interest at these links. :lol:

Edited by LameLefty, 01 December 2011 - 05:38 PM.

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#374 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 04:52 PM

RF nerds -


This is what those links return:

! Server Error: 102 (Severity 15, State 1, Line 1)

! Server 'HEIMDAL'

Incorrect syntax near ','.

Unable to access ib_licenses info


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#375 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 06:48 PM

Some tidbits:
It's for Ground Station to 103W:

Frequency Lower: 17300 Frequency Upper: 25250
17.3-17.8 GHz Frequency Band
24.75-25.25 GHz Frequency Band
the spacecraft has 36 MHz transponders


Edited by P Smith, 01 December 2011 - 06:56 PM.





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