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DIRECTV Satellite Discussion D-14


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#41 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 09:51 AM

I'll be updating the background info on D14 "soon". Was going back through all the filings last night, and need to summarize it a bit.

Target: 6/2013

A few items:

Original (1/2008): http://licensing.fcc...ent_key=-141474

Grant (7/2009): http://licensing.fcc...ment_key=727403

Bond (8/2009): http://licensing.fcc...ment_key=737367

Build (7/2010): http://licensing.fcc...ment_key=837188


Edited by Sixto, 01 February 2011 - 09:58 AM.

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#42 OFFLINE   Satelliteracer

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 04:12 PM

A freind of mine got att-uadverse - The installer told me they now own Directv. Is this true? If so then has come they have tv channels that we Directv do not have access to , such as east and west feeds of TNT or TBS?


Or why AT&T customers don't have NFL Sunday Ticket, etc, etc.

There are channels D* has that AT&T doesn't and vice versa. No one has them all.
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#43 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 10:25 AM

I'll be updating the background info on D14 "soon". Was going back through all the filings last night, and need to summarize it a bit.

Target: 6/2013

A few items:

Original (1/2008): http://licensing.fcc...ent_key=-141474

Grant (7/2009): http://licensing.fcc...ment_key=727403

Bond (8/2009): http://licensing.fcc...ment_key=737367

Build (7/2010): http://licensing.fcc...ment_key=837188


Thanks for posting these memory refreshing documents Sixto. Do you have the accompanying Schedule S technical document for the "original" 1/2008 one?

Also looking at the 7/2010 "Build" document for the SS/L contract, I'm a little confused as to whether the official name this satellite is actually DirecTV-14, RB-1, or maybe both? :confused:

#44 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 10:32 AM

Check D12 thread and you'll find similar duopoly in names.

#45 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 11:09 AM

Check D12 thread and you'll find similar duopoly in names.


Well, extrapolating from DirecTV-12 I expected the new bird to be called DirecTV-14 and described in a similar manner as a "hybrid Ka/BSS satellite," but the FCC filing documentation here makes no mention of the name "DirecTV-14" and always refers to it as "RB-1"

#46 OFFLINE   doctor j

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 12:45 PM

Thanks for posting these memory refreshing documents Sixto. Do you have the accompanying Schedule S technical document for the "original" 1/2008 one?

Also looking at the 7/2010 "Build" document for the SS/L contract, I'm a little confused as to whether the official name this satellite is actually DirecTV-14, RB-1, or maybe both? :confused:


Try here :

http://licensing.fcc...ing_key=-115983

D12 and RB-1A were separate call signs as i recall

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#47 OFFLINE   doctor j

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 12:48 PM

The schedule s documents cold be used to generate spotbeam gain maps. Anyone?

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#48 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 01:21 PM

Try here :

http://licensing.fcc...ing_key=-115983

D12 and RB-1A were separate call signs as i recall

Doctor j


The FCC assigns separate call signs for each RF payload package. Indeed, the Directv 12 satellite bus carries 2 separate call signs, one for the Ka and one for BSS bands. The last time I dug through the authorizations, this was what I came up with:

[B][U]FCC Call Sign	Satellite Common Name[/U][/B]
S2430		Directv 4S
S2629		Directv 3
S2630		Directv 2
S2657, S2627	Directv 1
S2369		Directv 1R
S2455		Directv 7S
S2673, S2417	Directv 5
S2628, S2656	Directv 6
S2632		Directv 8 DBS
S2132 		Directv 8 Ka
S2669		Directv 9S DBS
S2689 		Directv 9S Ka
S2133 		Spaceway 2
S2191 		Spaceway 1
S2640 		Directv 11
S2641 		Directv 10
S2796		Directv 12/RB-2A (BSS)
S2797		Directv 12/RB-2A (Ka)
S2693		Directv 13  (110W) ([B]surrendered authorization[/B])
S2711		Directv 14/RB-1 (Directv BSS-99W)
S2712		RB-2 (Directv BSS-103W)
S2242		RB-3 (107W ???) ([B]surrendered authorization[/B])
S2243		RB-4 ([B]101W originally, now 110W[/B])
S2244		RB-5 (119W) ([B]surrendered authorization[/B])
S2788		Directv 97W (FSS band) ([B]dismissed by delegated authority[/B])

Edited by LameLefty, 03 February 2011 - 01:43 PM.

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#49 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 11:56 AM

Try here :

http://licensing.fcc...ing_key=-115983 ...


Thanks for the link. :)

Though I think the Schedule S posted there is early and may have to be modified somewhat for the CONUS transponder listings at least, since they appear to number up to 20 (including two narrower 24 MHz Tps., "19A" and "20A") ranging from 17.3-17.8 GHz.

Since the actual BSS bandwidth today for CONUS is 100 MHz less at 17.3-17.7 GHz, I would guess that the RB-1 payload for DirecTV-14 will be the same 18 transponders carried by RB-2A aboard DirecTV-12.

... 12 and RB-1A were separate call signs as i recall

Doctor j


I think you meant "RB-2A" ... :)

#50 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 12:04 PM

The schedule s documents cold be used to generate spotbeam gain maps. Anyone?

Doctor j


What real spotbeams would those be for the RB-1 payload? According to the Schedule S RB-1 will comprise only three broad national/regional coverage beams. One for the U.S., AL., and HI. Another for Mexico, and a third one for Latin America.

#51 OFFLINE   doctor j

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 12:36 PM

The FCC assigns separate call signs for each RF payload package. Indeed, the Directv 12 satellite bus carries 2 separate call signs, one for the Ka and one for BSS bands. The last time I dug through the authorizations, this was what I came up with:

[B][U]FCC Call Sign	Satellite Common Name[/U][/B]
S2430		Directv 4S
S2629		Directv 3
S2630		Directv 2
S2657, S2627	Directv 1
S2369		Directv 1R
S2455		Directv 7S
S2673, S2417	Directv 5
S2628, S2656	Directv 6
S2632		Directv 8 DBS
S2132 		Directv 8 Ka
S2669		Directv 9S DBS
S2689 		Directv 9S Ka
S2133 		Spaceway 2
S2191 		Spaceway 1
S2640 		Directv 11
S2641 		Directv 10
S2796		Directv 12/RB-2A (BSS)
S2797		Directv 12/RB-2A (Ka)
S2693		Directv 13  (110W) ([B]surrendered authorization[/B])
S2711		Directv 14/RB-1 (Directv BSS-99W)
S2712		RB-2 (Directv BSS-103W)
S2242		RB-3 (107W ???) ([B]surrendered authorization[/B])
S2243		RB-4 ([B]101W originally, now 110W[/B])
S2244		RB-5 (119W) ([B]surrendered authorization[/B])
S2788		Directv 97W (FSS band) ([B]dismissed by delegated authority[/B])


A review of FCC filings reveals a few confusing duplicates.

Your list is extensive but did not mention:
S2679 a duplicate of the KA payload on D-8 (S2132)
S2688 a duplicate of the KA payload on D-9S (S2689)
S2692 a duplicate of the DBS replacement at 110 later withdrawn (D-13 S2693)

Doctor j

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#52 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 12:39 PM

A review of FCC filings reveals a few confusing duplicates.

Your list is extensive but did not mention:
S2679 a duplicate of the KA payload on D-8 (S2132)
S2688 a duplicate of the KA payload on D-9S (S2689)
S2692 a duplicate of the DBS replacement at 110 later withdrawn (D-13 S2693)

Doctor j


Yep, I left off some of the confusing entries, although in retrospect I can't remember how I decided which duplicate to leave off. :grin:

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#53 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 12:42 PM

Yep, it's fairly complicated. Some day I need to go back and re-review everything again, but since we had until June 2013 for the next launch, figured we'd have a breather for a while. :)
DirecTV: Genie HR44, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/75)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#54 OFFLINE   tkrandall

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 12:43 PM

Does DirecTV have the 99w and 103w BSS slots all to themselves? Is/was the 99 allocation to be split with another party?

#55 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 12:47 PM

Does DirecTV have the 99w and 103w BSS slots all to themselves? Is/was the 99 allocation to be split with another party?

The FCC approvals from 7/28/2009 ... the Notes are from early September last time I checked:

[table="header"]FCC Application|Company|Callsign|Slot|Notes
SAT-LOA-20050210-00031|Intelsat|S2662|91°|Surrendered
SAT-LOA-20060412-00042|Pegasus|S2698|91°|Surrendered
|
SAT-LOA-20060908-00099|DirecTV|S2711|99°|Paid (RB-1)
SAT-LOA-20050210-00029|Intelsat|S2660|99°|Surrendered
|
SAT-LOA-20060908-00100|DirecTV |S2712|103°|Paid (RB-2)
|
SAT-LOA-19970605-00049|DirecTV| S2242|107°|Surrendered
SAT-LOA-20020328-00052|EchoStar|S2442|107°|Paid
SAT-LOA-20060412-00043|Pegasus|S2699|107°|Surrendered
|
SAT-LOA-20020328-00051|EchoStar|S2441|111°|Paid
SAT-LOA-19970605-00050|DirecTV| S2243|111°|Paid (RB-4)
[/table]

This was the last I looked at it (above).
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#56 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 01:34 PM

Does DirecTV have the 99w and 103w BSS slots all to themselves? Is/was the 99 allocation to be split with another party?


AFAIK DirecTV presently has 99 W all to themselves for BSS (Reverse-DBS) service, but is in dispute with the "Ciel Satellite Group" of Ottawa Canada for 103 W.

#57 OFFLINE   tkrandall

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 01:44 PM

AFAIK DirecTV presently has 99 W all to themselves for BSS (Reverse-DBS) service, but is in dispute with the "Ciel Satellite Group" of Ottawa Canada for 103 W.


You mean Canada does not have slots to themselves and have to fight for 103w? (or is this an Echostar play since they have use of the Ku Ciel bird at 72.7?)

I did not recall intelsat gave up on the 99 bid.

I am not sure I see how 111w fits long term with DirecTV's core "arc" of 99-103. Perhaps internationals and western market locals?

Speaking of Echostar, they have a BSS slot or two for their eastern arc as well do they not?

#58 OFFLINE   evan_s

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 04:02 PM

You mean Canada does not have slots to themselves and have to fight for 103w? (or is this an Echostar play since they have use of the Ku Ciel bird at 72.7?)

I did not recall intelsat gave up on the 99 bid.

I am not sure I see how 111w fits long term with DirecTV's core "arc" of 99-103. Perhaps internationals and western market locals?

Speaking of Echostar, they have a BSS slot or two for their eastern arc as well do they not?


As I recall the ITU allowed both Canada and the US to grant licenses for 103 for BSS. In the past they have only allowed one or the other to grant licenses for a particular slot. Because the Canadian government worked faster, Ciel did get their application to the ITU first so they have priority for using BSS at 103. The assumption is that should be for canadian coverage basically leaving DirecTV to avoid interfering with their signal but they have also tried to argue that any usage by DirecTV poses an interference risk so shouldn't be allowed. Thus my expectation that it will end up being used for spots for locals as Conus is not going to be possible with out interference problems.

I don't think it will be used for locals as they seem to already have a nice hunk of bandwidth at 103 BSS which is pretty much limited to just that. Specialty programing, like international channels seems likely. It is nicely located near 110 and should work well as part of an SL6. It might even fight into the existing stack plan with 110/119 since it's a shared BSS slot and BSS is already short a few TPs.

I do recall some BSS slots for Echostart and the eastern arc too but don't have details handy.

Edited by evan_s, 04 February 2011 - 04:07 PM.


#59 OFFLINE   wmb

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Posted 06 February 2011 - 11:48 AM

Yep, I left off some of the confusing entries, although in retrospect I can't remember how I decided which duplicate to leave off. :grin:


I guess what would help my confusion is getting an answer to this... How many satellites are they on the hook to launch, and by when. From the listing, it looks like we will see the following launched:

RB-1 (along with DirecTV 14) at 99W
RB-2 at 103W
RB-4 at 110W

Of these, only RB-1/DirecTV 14 is under contract.

Of course, I also am one who likes to think of these birds as "black boxes" that magicly make them moving pictures show up on that flat panel thing on the other side of the room. :rolleyes:

#60 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 06 February 2011 - 12:10 PM

I guess what would help my confusion is getting an answer to this... How many satellites are they on the hook to launch, and by when. From the listing, it looks like we will see the following launched:

RB-1 (along with DirecTV 14) at 99W
RB-2 at 103W
RB-4 at 110W

Of these, only RB-1/DirecTV 14 is under contract.

Of course, I also am one who likes to think of these birds as "black boxes" that magicly make them moving pictures show up on that flat panel thing on the other side of the room. :rolleyes:


That's actually an interesting question. There are certain regulatory milestones that Directv MUST by law meet with regard to these licenses, barring some kind of petition for relief for special circumstances. I think they have a year or so to decide what to do with the RB-2 and RB-4 allocations, but I haven't looked at the timeline lately. Sixto probably has all that stuff memorized by now. :grin:

However, it's not just additional bandwidth that has to be considered, it's maintenance of existing bandwidth. Per their recent investor presentations, some of the older Ku birds are nearing their design lifespan. D5 has less than 3-1/2 years of life expectancy left, although it has fuel for quite a bit longer. But it's not just station-keeping fuel that determines lifespan. There's also transponder health, spacecraft electronics/control systems, solar array and battery health, etc. Only Directv's technical staff know how the spacecraft is doing as it gets older, but age-related degradation is a fact of life in engineering. Next up on the "lifespan report" is D4S with predicted lifespan in late 2016, and then D8 and SW1 in mid-2017, and SW2 in mid-2018 . . . so one hopes that Directv has a well thought-out plan for the mid-term future going forward.

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