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DIRECTV Satellite Discussion D-14


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2744 replies to this topic

#76 OFFLINE   espnjason

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 11:18 AM

Given this info today:

http://licensing.fcc...erC/File Number

Modification to add Puerto Rico beam to CONUS antenna and slightly adjust orbital slot from 99.175 to 99.235.

Doctor j


Will that mean a possible lineup enhancement for those with the 'Mas' or 'En Español' package?

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#77 OFFLINE   spear61

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 11:40 AM

RB 4 111W License Surrender

Surrender

Edited by Tom Robertson, 28 July 2011 - 12:24 PM.
Fixed link


#78 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 12:29 PM

RB 4 111W License Surrender

Surrender

Great find, spear61!

DIRECTV Enterprises, LLC (“DIRECTV”) hereby surrenders the authorization issued by grant stamp on July 28, 2009 to launch and operate DIRECTV RB-4, a 17/24 GHz BSS satellite, at the 110.9° W.L. orbital location.

DIRECTV takes this action reluctantly, as it has to date proceeded diligently to develop its 17/24 GHz BSS assets. DIRECTV has satisfied all payment obligations under its satellite construction contract with Space Systems/Loral, and recently completed Critical Design Review of this satellite along with the two other 17/24 GHz BSS satellites it is authorized to operate. Now that this preliminary work has been done, DIRECTV would have to commit to a rapidly escalating payment schedule to, among other things, cover the cost of long lead items and begin actual construction of DIRECTV RB-4. Unfortunately, in its ongoing review of the U.S. priority for this satellite under the International Telecommunication Union (“ITU”) rules, DIRECTV has reached the conclusion that claims of other administrations with superior priority (including Canada, Luxembourg, and the Netherlands) are increasingly likely to result in actual satellites with priority over DIRECTV either at or close to its assigned position. For example, Canada has licensed one 17/24 GHz BSS operator at 111.1° W.L. and another at 113° W.L.

In these circumstances, DIRECTV cannot justify proceeding further to develop this authorization given the substantial risk that its investment of hundreds of millions of dollars could be rendered essentially useless due to the inability to operate in the presence of non-U.S.-licensed systems with superior ITU priority.2


Note the portion I bolded. DIRECTV has made progress on the other two BSS satellites. No details except looks like Space Systems/Loral has the contract for these two satellites as well.

Cheers,
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#79 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 12:33 PM

So the way I read it, it sounds like they really didn't want to give up the license but looking at other claims for adjacent slots they felt they wouldn't be actually allowed to put a satellite there, or am I reading it wrong?

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#80 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 12:37 PM

So the way I read it, it sounds like they really didn't want to give up the license but looking at other claims for adjacent slots they felt they wouldn't be actually allowed to put a satellite there, or am I reading it wrong?


Pretty much it. They don't want to spend hundreds of millions on a satellite they probably won't be able to operate in the US.

I wonder if behind the scenes they were unable to get a waiver on the milestones timelines until the courts cleared up the rights over the US. Or if they decided it wasn't even worth the effort based upon prior experience with the international courts.

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#81 OFFLINE   spear61

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 01:25 PM

"For example, Canada has licensed one 17/24 GHz BSS operator at 111.1° W.L. and another at 113° W.L."

I wonder about this statement since Industry Canada shows no operating or authorized but unconstructed BSS satellites at those slots.

Authorized and Approved Canadian Satellites

#82 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 01:36 PM

So let me get this straight;

DIRECTV initially had three satellites to be constructed by SS/L, which I assume were DIRECTV14/RB-1 (99W), RB-2 (103W), and RB-4 (110W) (since RB-3 at 107W) was previously surrendered).

Therefore now with RB-4 being surrendered, that currently leaves only DIRECTV14/RB-1 and RB-2 to be made by SS/L?

#83 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 02:00 PM

So let me get this straight;

DIRECTV initially had three satellites to be constructed by SS/L, which I assume were DIRECTV14/RB-1 (99W), RB-2 (103W), and RB-4 (110W) (since RB-3 at 107W) was previously surrendered).

Therefore now with RB-4 being surrendered, that currently leaves only DIRECTV14/RB-1 and RB-2 to be made by SS/L?


The only question I have is are D14 and RB-1 the same satellite or two satellites? Otherwise I think you are spot on.

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#84 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 02:58 PM

The only question I have is are D14 and RB-1 the same satellite or two satellites? Otherwise I think you are spot on.

Cheers,
Tom


The original SS/L press release for DIRECTV-14 linked to on page one of this thread mentions more than once of an "RDBS" payload in addition to the Ka-band one.

So I think they must be the same, though calling it simply "RB-1" in the FCC correspondence without ever mentioning it as actually a Ka/RB-1 band hybrid is confusing.

#85 OFFLINE   spear61

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 03:11 PM

The original SS/L press release for DIRECTV-14 linked to on page one of this thread mentions more than once of an "RDBS" payload in addition to the Ka-band one.

So I think they must be the same, though calling it simply "RB-1" in the FCC correspondence without ever mentioning it as actually a Ka/RB-1 band hybrid is confusing.


If D14 is BSS 17Ghz/KA it should be in this report

2011 BSS 17 Ghz/KA Report

#86 OFFLINE   bobnielsen

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 03:28 PM

The original SS/L press release for DIRECTV-14 linked to on page one of this thread mentions more than once of an "RDBS" payload in addition to the Ka-band one.

So I think they must be the same, though calling it simply "RB-1" in the FCC correspondence without ever mentioning it as actually a Ka/RB-1 band hybrid is confusing.


Yes it is confusing, somewhat by necessity. One spacecraft with separate FCC licensing for the Ka and BSS portions of the payload.

#87 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 03:46 PM

The original SS/L press release for DIRECTV-14 linked to on page one of this thread mentions more than once of an "RDBS" payload in addition to the Ka-band one.

So I think they must be the same, though calling it simply "RB-1" in the FCC correspondence without ever mentioning it as actually a Ka/RB-1 band hybrid is confusing.


!rolling and I was the one who put the full press release into RAD's post last year. :)

I'm pretty sure you are correct, thanks for reminding me. :)

Cheers,
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#88 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 02:36 AM

If D14 is BSS 17Ghz/KA it should be in this report

2011 BSS 17 Ghz/KA Report


Well I guess it should show in that annual report, but strangely it doesn't. Only the call letters S2711 for the RB-1 payload authorized at 99.175°.

So far there is no known (to us at least) listing for the Ka band payload aboard the future DIRECTV 14.

Again another nice find on that document though ...

#89 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 02:48 AM

!rolling and I was the one who put the full press release into RAD's post last year. :)

I'm pretty sure you are correct, thanks for reminding me. :)

Cheers,
Tom


Yes, and with the info in the additional document linked by spear61 is seems DIRECTV now has three BSS slots remaining.

99.175° for D14/RB-1, 102.765° apparently for the present RB-2A spot beam payload aboard D12 which is preliminary for RB-2 at 102.825° with full national coverage.

#90 OFFLINE   spear61

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 02:57 PM

There were a bunch of KA band filings for 97W from three companies on the day the server crashed - Directv, Hughes, and Inmarsat Hawaii.

Most of them were filed within seconds or a minute of each other.
Going to be interesting to see how it shakes out. Sometimes, one gets it all and other times, they each get a percentage of the slot. Not sure how KA awards work.

I recall Echostar abandoning a KA slot a year or so ago. Can't remember where it was but this might be it.

Example filing - Directv

#91 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 03:43 PM

There were a bunch of KA band filings for 97W from three companies on the day the server crashed - Directv, Hughes, and Inmarsat Hawaii.

Most of them were filed within seconds or a minute of each other.
Going to be interesting to see how it shakes out. Sometimes, one gets it all and other times, they each get a percentage of the slot. Not sure how KA awards work.

I recall Echostar abandoning a KA slot a year or so ago. Can't remember where it was but this might be it.

Example filing - Directv


Is this to be run on existing Ka compatible equipment, or is this for new (future) satellite launches?

That would be a surprise increase in bandwidth if there was an existing bird out there that did Ku and Ka, but the Ka was just disabled all this time until a proper license could be granted.

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#92 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 05:13 PM

Thanks for the heads up. I used to check daily but hadn't checked in a while. Gotta get my checker running again on 64bit.
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#93 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 05:22 PM

Is this to be run on existing Ka compatible equipment, or is this for new (future) satellite launches?

That would be a surprise increase in bandwidth if there was an existing bird out there that did Ku and Ka, but the Ka was just disabled all this time until a proper license could be granted.


This is for the 97W slot. Directv holds a BSS license for that slot - it would be additional bandwidth but would require (at the least) a new LNB, since 97W is not part of the "core" 99-101-103 Directv arc of orbital slots.

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#94 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 05:28 PM

This would be a really cool slot to get, with 48 transponders!

Here's one of the more interesting documents:

http://licensing.fcc...ment_key=910785


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#95 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 05:45 PM

This would be a really cool slot to get, with 48 transponders!

Here's one of the more interesting documents:

http://licensing.fcc...ment_key=910785


Using these uplink facilities, the DIRECTV 97W system and associated ground Ka-band assets will be capable of transmitting over 200 channels of HD programming.


Is that 200 more, or the 200 they already have? Would they just move the two spaceways over there, and use that slot for as the application said, niche, foreign language, etc? Or are they talking about a new satellite they havent launched yet, which would be years down the pipe?

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#96 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 06:35 PM

This would be a really cool slot to get, with 48 transponders!

Here's one of the more interesting documents:

http://licensing.fcc...ment_key=910785


It's interesting that, according to that document, the only other ITU applications for the slot are from the UK, Papua New Guinea and Malaysia. I mean, WTF seriously? Those countries aren't anywhere close to 97W longitude.

Have you had the time to pull and research the document mentioned in Footnote 1 to see how/why this Ka slot came open? I'm curious is Directv will use any of its currently-licensed BSS slots as bargaining fodder to smooth this application. It seems to me that additional Ka bandwidth would better fit Directv's existing systems and plans than BSS systems, but I could be wrong.

EDITED TO ADD: Okay, the footnote refers to Echostar's surrendered license for that location.

Edited by LameLefty, 11 August 2011 - 06:42 PM.

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#97 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 07:02 PM

Anybody got the link for the accompanying Schedule S for this LOA request?

#98 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 07:27 PM

Is that 200 more, or the 200 they already have? Would they just move the two spaceways over there, and use that slot for as the application said, niche, foreign language, etc? Or are they talking about a new satellite they havent launched yet, which would be years down the pipe?

240 more, assuming 5 per, which may be low considering newer technologies and the switch to SS/L for the sats.
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#99 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 07:30 PM

Have you had the time to pull and research the document mentioned in Footnote 1 to see how/why this Ka slot came open?

Yep, Echostar, but I thought that was long ago. Haven't had time to dig much yet, been away. Man, I need to fix my FCC checker (broke when I switched to 64bit), also some recent changes to RB-1 and RB-2 for Puerto Rico and location.
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#100 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 07:31 PM

Anybody got the link for the accompanying Schedule S for this LOA request?

Yep, it's out there. Will attach here.
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