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DirecTV Satellite Discussion (D14 up next)


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#101 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 07:34 PM

Here you go ... Schedule-S:

http://licensing.fcc...ment_key=911366


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#102 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 07:37 PM

This would be a really cool slot to get, with 48 transponders!

Here's one of the more interesting documents: http://licensing.fcc...ment_key=910785


Wow nice find. That sounds great! Now too bad it was stated that people will need new equipment (lnb) to get this. It's like if they would do an all mpeg4 conversion... It takes lots of equipment swaps (on site, mail order, etc..). So what kind of timeframe and what kind of budget would they allow for truck rolls to change out LNB's?

Edit: I see niche and foreign language content. That greatly reduces the number of truck rolls. Long term it really provides a competitive edge to have that sort of high quality programming for those who are interested.

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#103 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 07:55 PM

I agree Cypherx... There is a huge demand in foreign language programming, and having a separate KA slot with that kind of bandwidth would free them up from having to decide on whether to use current core transponders for that material. They could also shove all the channels they are paid or required to carry to that satellite, and just roll a truck to upgrade the lnb for those customers who request the satellite, even perhaps, at the customers expense. NASA HD, TELEMUNDO, Free Speech TV, lots of stuff they could put up there. They could move all the spanish channels there as well. Not sure how much space that would free up for English on 99/103, but it sure would be good for their future. I think it would be a good move, especially considering there is already a "spot" on the current LNB housing for a feedhorn at about that location.

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#104 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:01 PM

"Not sure how much space that would free up for English on 99/103" - I recall there is none foreign language channels ...

#105 OFFLINE   Kevin F

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:24 PM

.... I think it would be a good move, especially considering there is already a "spot" on the current LNB housing for a feedhorn at about that location.


Where? At 97W?
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#106 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:42 PM

Where? At 97W?


Yea, some of the LNBs (eagle aspen) have the full metal cover, and had the spot for the 97 satellite position to be added (a new lnb, not added to current ones).

http://www.contracto...tv-SL5S-product

It might be close enough to add it right into the main 99/101/103 housing as well.

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#107 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:42 PM

Here's the Echostar reference:

SURRENDER

SAT-MOD-20050308-00059 S2499 EchoStar Corporation

On March 9, 2009, EchoStar Corporation surrendered its authorization to operate a Ka-band geostationary satellite orbit Fixed-Satellite Service space station at the 97.0° W.L. orbital location. See Letters to Marlene H. Dortch from Pantelis Michalopoulos, Counsel for EchoStar Corporation, dated March 9, 2009 and May 24, 2011. The 18.3-18.8 GHz (space-to-Earth), 19.7-20.2 GHz (space-to-Earth), 28.35-28.6 GHz (Earth-to-space), and 29.25-30.0 GHz (Earth-to-space) frequency bands at the 97.0° W.L. orbital location are now available for reassignment pursuant to the Commission's first-come, first-served licensing process effective 2:00 p.m. EDT on Tuesday, August 9, 2011. At that time, applicants may file applications for new space stations, market access by non-U.S. licensed space stations, modifications to licensed space stations, or amendments to pending applications taking this announcement into account. Applications for the spectrum filed prior to this date and time will be dismissed as premature without prejudice to refiling.


Here's some of the referenced Echostar letters:

http://licensing.fcc...ment_key=699311

http://licensing.fcc...ment_key=890323


It is somewhat complicated as to what happened with Echostar and 97W.

Edited by Sixto, 11 August 2011 - 08:53 PM.

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#108 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:43 PM

Where? At 97W?


No way to do that - it should sit too close to existing 99W !

If he mistaken, but mentioned the spot for 95W, that could works (at least on my home made six LNBFs set for 119...95W with 1m reflector).

#109 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 02:11 AM

It is somewhat complicated as to what happened with Echostar and 97W.

The bottom line is they had too many unbuilt licenses, which put them in a position where they could not apply for more. They shed licenses that didn't fit in as well with their network.

If DirecTV can make 97 work for them that is great. With all the other active Ka slots and satellites DirecTV has a better chance of making it work.

#110 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 06:07 AM

The bottom line is they had too many unbuilt licenses, which put them in a position where they could not apply for more. They shed licenses that didn't fit in as well with their network.


That may or may not turn out to be the same situation with Directv regarding their RB licenses. I'm sure there are some pretty compelling spreadsheets and risk matrices out there in the boardrooms regarding the costs of investing in "new" reverse-band receivers and LNBs for the new slots, plus equipment to make it all work in the stack plan, versus how to do the same with a frequency band Directv already has a great deal of experience and success with, and being able to add so much bandwidth so close to their existing core 99-101-103 arc.

If DirecTV can make 97 work for them that is great. With all the other active Ka slots and satellites DirecTV has a better chance of making it work.


Being so close to the existing arc means that lines of site are likely to be less challenging for most existing Directv customers - still gotta figure out if existing reflectors would work or if they'd have to be tweaked for the new slot, and of course how to get the signals into the stack plan. I think a new revision of the SWiM firmware could probably make it work - of course, those have to be replaced/upgraded by a tech rather than through a software download, which increases implementation costs.

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#111 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 06:18 AM

I think a new revision of the SWiM firmware could probably make it work - of course, those have to be replaced/upgraded by a tech rather than through a software download, which increases implementation costs.


Pardon my ignorance, but is the SWiM "guts" and firmware in the LNB itself? So swapping the LNB could accomplish this, correct?

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#112 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 06:44 AM

Pardon my ignorance, but is the SWiM "guts" and firmware in the LNB itself? So swapping the LNB could accomplish this, correct?


If you have a SWiM LNB, then yes. If you have an installation with a separate SWiM8, SWiM16 or SWiM32 module (as I and many others do) then no.

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#113 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 07:16 AM

The bottom line is they had too many unbuilt licenses, which put them in a position where they could not apply for more. They shed licenses that didn't fit in as well with their network.

If DirecTV can make 97 work for them that is great. With all the other active Ka slots and satellites DirecTV has a better chance of making it work.

Yup, what I was most curious about is why it took 2 years to resolve, the original surrender was announced in early 2009, and DirecTV tried to get the license then, but was rejected. We talked about it in the D12 thread.

Seems like it's finally resolved with Echostar, but the language is still a little curious, because it seems like they didn't get their $ back, but it got settled.

From last Friday (this was in addition to the surrender announcement that I posted up above, also from last Friday):

SAT-MOD-20050308-00059 S2499 EchoStar Corporation

The Satellite Division has determined that EchoStar Corporation has met the March 8, 2007 commence physical construction milestone associated with its surrendered Ka-band space station authorization at the 97.0 ° W.L. orbital location (Call Sign S2499). As a result, the amount due under bond for the surrendered authorization is $750,000 as provided in the Amendment of the Commission's Space Station Licensing Rules and Policies, First Report and Order and Further Notice of Proposed Rulemaking, IB Docket No. 02-34, 18 FCC Rcd 10760 (2003); Amendment of the Commission's Space Station Licensing Rules and Policies, First Order on Reconsideration and Fifth Report and Order, IB Docket No. 02- 34, 19 FCC Rcd 12637 (2004), and 47 C.F.R. § 25.165(d).


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#114 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 07:36 AM

From last Friday (this was in addition to the surrender announcement that I posted up above, also from last Friday):

SAT-MOD-20050308-00059 S2499 EchoStar Corporation

The Satellite Division has determined that EchoStar Corporation has met the March 8, 2007 commence physical construction milestone associated with its surrendered Ka-band space station authorization at the 97.0 ° W.L. orbital location (Call Sign S2499). As a result, the amount due under bond for the surrendered authorization is $750,000 as provided in the Amendment of the Commission's Space Station Licensing Rules and Policies, First Report and Order and Further Notice of Proposed Rulemaking, IB Docket No. 02-34, 18 FCC Rcd 10760 (2003); Amendment of the Commission's Space Station Licensing Rules and Policies, First Order on Reconsideration and Fifth Report and Order, IB Docket No. 02- 34, 19 FCC Rcd 12637 (2004), and 47 C.F.R. § 25.165(d).


That to me looks like a classic government typo, or else there's a lot more under the table not shown in the documents. If the milestone had been met and the satellite truly begun building, why did Echostar voluntarily surrender their license? Was that satellite repurposed for another payload and orbital slot? And if it was met, why is the FCC charging them three quarters of a million bucks against their bond?

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#115 OFFLINE   longrider

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 07:36 AM

I dont see the reflectors being an issue, it is designed to go out to 119 on the west and is symmetrical so it should handle out to 83 on the east. As a SWM LNB would handle maybe 95%? of installs that would be simple and only the other 5% would need something designed, maybe even 6 cables from LNB to SWM switch?

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#116 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 07:39 AM

That to me looks like a classic government typo, or else there's a lot more under the table not shown in the documents. If the milestone had been met and the satellite truly begun building, why did Echostar voluntarily surrender their license? Was that satellite repurposed for another payload and orbital slot? And if it was met, why is the FCC charging them three quarters of a million bucks against their bond?

Exactly, all good questions.

Here's the document that both quotes came from:

http://hraunfoss.fcc...A-11-1353A1.pdf


And the words from Echostar's 2nd letter (this year, link above):

Pending before the Commission are two requests for the unconditional release of the bonds posted by EchoStar for satellite authorizations it has already surrendered – Call Signs S2499, a Ka-band satellite at 97º W.L., and S2636, a Ka-band satellite at 113º W.L. EchoStar hereby withdraws its request to unconditionally release the bond for S2636 and, in lieu of a forfeiture, will make arrangements with the Commission to make a payment in the amount of $750,000 to the Treasury in full satisfaction of this obligation. For the bond associated with S2499, EchoStar met the first two milestones, and has submitted a certification that it commenced construction, but the Commission has not requested additional information from EchoStar, or made a determination as to whether EchoStar met that milestone. Once the Commission makes such a determination, EchoStar will make the appropriate arrangements with the Commission to satisfy the remaining bond obligation.


Edited by Sixto, 12 August 2011 - 07:57 AM.

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#117 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 08:54 AM

I think it is fee for holding slot(s) , he-he pretty hefty amount to do that.

#118 OFFLINE   spear61

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 09:05 AM

Exactly, all good questions.

Here's the document that both quotes came from:

http://hraunfoss.fcc...A-11-1353A1.pdf


And the words from Echostar's 2nd letter (this year, link above):

Pending before the Commission are two requests for the unconditional release of the bonds posted by EchoStar for satellite authorizations it has already surrendered – Call Signs S2499, a Ka-band satellite at 97º W.L., and S2636, a Ka-band satellite at 113º W.L. EchoStar hereby withdraws its request to unconditionally release the bond for S2636 and, in lieu of a forfeiture, will make arrangements with the Commission to make a payment in the amount of $750,000 to the Treasury in full satisfaction of this obligation. For the bond associated with S2499, EchoStar met the first two milestones, and has submitted a certification that it commenced construction, but the Commission has not requested additional information from EchoStar, or made a determination as to whether EchoStar met that milestone. Once the Commission makes such a determination, EchoStar will make the appropriate arrangements with the Commission to satisfy the remaining bond obligation.


But, Echostar has now come full circle with the Hughes merger. They are using the Hughes entity to reapply (Jupiter 97W) for license for broadband service at 97W.

Hughes 97W

#119 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 09:08 AM

I think it is fee for holding slot(s) , he-he pretty hefty amount to do that.


No. The initial bond is for holding the slot - it's refundable upon meeting certain milestones.

Re-thinking this, I suspect what had happened was Echostar asked for the entire $3M to be released since they surrendered the slot, and the FCC looked at what they had actually done to secure its use during the time it was held, determined that they'd at least started construction of a satellite so that warranted return of $2.25M, but decided to hold the rest ($750K) because of the delay and/or lack of progress on the other milestones while the slot was held.

Never mind - see posts above.

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#120 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 10:08 AM

Can Ka slots be spaced only 2 degrees apart?

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