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DirecTV Satellite Discussion (D14 up next)


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1311 replies to this topic

#161 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 04:59 PM

Just keep the sidetrack for new 97W sat - what could be user friendly name of it ? D-15 ?


From the DIRECTV request document: "DIRECTV 97W". :)

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#162 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 06:02 PM

From the DIRECTV request document: "DIRECTV 97W". :)

Cheers,
Tom


Nice try, but I did read that document and saw the quotation - that's why I did ask in hope someone _knowledgeable_ would know an answer.
My guess (I'm not pretend to know) has been shown.

#163 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 06:05 PM

With so many slots already active, it no longer makes sense to give them names until they are approved and construction is contracted. Anything else would get confusing.

Just look at D-13 that was requested, approved, and now has been abandoned.

So DIRECTV 97W or D97W is as good a name as any for now. :)

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Tom
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#164 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 07:22 PM

So be it - "D97" :D.

#165 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 07:37 PM

With so many slots already active, it no longer makes sense to give them names until they are approved and construction is contracted. Anything else would get confusing.


Aah, the voice of reason amidst the babble. Thank you, Tom! :)

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#166 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 08:18 PM

2 degree spacing works on C band where the -3 db point on a standard 10' dish is much wider than a KU dish, and KA is even narrower (note the fine tuning adjusters needed for KA band?)

Turn your dish one degree, and see if you have any signal at all. Im sure the interference they are referring to, is interference from the ground station to neighbor satellites, not interference from the satellite to the ground stations.

With sufficiently large dishes at the uplink site, I have no worries they can avoid interference with a satellite 2 degrees away.


Alright, this sounds good for the most part;

But if the potential interference Tom spoke of refers to that of the uplink stations on adjacent satellites, then how can the use of "spot-beams" on the receiving satellite aid in preventing such interference to a neighboring satellite slot from its ground station?

#167 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 08:28 PM

Alright, this sounds good for the most part;

But if the potential interference Tom spoke of refers to that of the uplink stations on adjacent satellites, then how can the use of "spot-beams" on the receiving satellite aid in preventing such interference to a neighboring satellite slot from its ground station?

It has to be done from the ground.
You wouldn't use a "CONUS" beam pattern on a ground station as you'd "hit" every SAT up there. :lol:
Going back to the adjustable flashlight beam, you "merely" focus the beam narrow enough so as to not illuminate the SAT 2º [something like 800 miles] away.
A.K.A VOS

#168 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 08:40 PM

Alright, this sounds good for the most part;

But if the potential interference Tom spoke of refers to that of the uplink stations on adjacent satellites, then how can the use of "spot-beams" on the receiving satellite aid in preventing such interference to a neighboring satellite slot from its ground station?


Sorry, didn't mean to confuse. The interference is not in the uplink direction. The monster dishes on the ground can focus a very tight beam that several uplink stations can hit separate dishes on a single satellite. As VOS describes, think of looking down at the earth and seeing 4 flashlights in the 4 corners of the US. Even if they are the same frequency, they are so far apart, it isn't a problem.

The interference is trying to receive the signals on the ground on a small dish from two satellites that are only 2° apart. It can be done--but we're talking about mass manufactured and mass installed dishes. So everthing needs to be slighly more precise for it to work everywhere. Hence the very fine tuning instructions and the problems of slightly warped dishes.

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#169 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 11:28 PM

Sorry, didn't mean to confuse. The interference is not in the uplink direction. The monster dishes on the ground can focus a very tight beam that several uplink stations can hit separate dishes on a single satellite. As VOS describes, think of looking down at the earth and seeing 4 flashlights in the 4 corners of the US. Even if they are the same frequency, they are so far apart, it isn't a problem.

I read VOS's description (which specifically refers to a satellite 2º / 800 miles away) as the same uplink lighting up satellites at two different slots. If all works well a viewer at the satellite would only see ONE "flashlight" beam from one dish at the uplink. If they moved 800 miles to the next slot they would see a different beam from a different dish at the same uplink center.

What you are referring to is also possible ... designing a satellite with an uplink receive dish that would only see one area, such as Southern California, and another dish that would only see another area, such as Colorado. In that case a viewer at the satellite would see both "flashlight" beams (unless they were looking at the earth through the receive equipment - which would only see the appropriate beam).

The interference is trying to receive the signals on the ground on a small dish from two satellites that are only 2° apart. It can be done--but we're talking about mass manufactured and mass installed dishes. So everthing needs to be slighly more precise for it to work everywhere. Hence the very fine tuning instructions and the problems of slightly warped dishes.

There are also regional variances that need to be taken into account. Two degrees apart in space is not two degrees apart in an arc on the ground from every receive location. I believe it is possible to design a reflector that is 2º compliant in the Ka band.

#170 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 08:04 AM

I'm sure the highly-educated and well-trained RF engineers at Directv and their counterparts at Boeing and SS/L who design the satellites will appreciate our collective approval of their abilities. :rolleyes:

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#171 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 11:18 AM

I would say so as well, were it not for Tom's earlier statement about the Ka-band payloads at 101 actually being spot-beamed to eliminate potential interference with 99 and 103.


I would imagine that DirecTV is a forward enough thinking company to have done some testing at 101°...

~Alan

#172 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 06:34 PM

While there's only been one public Space Systems / Loral (SS/L) press release, the FCC docs clearly refers to two birds, with both being updated within the past few weeks.

RB-1 (at 99°):

Modification: http://licensing.fcc...ment_key=907941

Schedule-S: http://licensing.fcc...ment_key=908556

RB-2 (at 103°):

Modification: http://licensing.fcc...ment_key=907995

Schedule-S: http://licensing.fcc...ment_key=908568


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#173 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 08:55 PM

Still no filings on the Ka-band payload clearly mentioned in the SS/L press release for DIRECTV 14/RB-1?

Very strange ...

#174 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 09:12 PM

Still no filings on the Ka-band payload clearly mentioned in the SS/L press release for DIRECTV 14/RB-1?

Very strange ...

I've always assumed that the press release was referring to either RB-1 or RB-2, and for whatever reason they decided to only mention one. It seems clear in the filings that SS/L is building two satellites.

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#175 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 09:12 AM

I've always assumed that the press release was referring to either RB-1 or RB-2, and for whatever reason they decided to only mention one. It seems clear in the filings that SS/L is building two satellites.


Yea;

But I'm just still trying to ascertain as to whether or not RB-1 designated for 99W (don't know about RB-2) will contain a Ka-band payload as well or not. Had thought the mention of Ka in the original press release implied another D12 type set of Ka-hi transponders for 99W.

A possible "99ca" perhaps?

#176 OFFLINE   David Ortiz

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 05:09 PM

Ran across some interesting items regarding reflecting the Ku signal from 101 back toward the base of the dish and passing the Ka signal from 101 through to the dish arm.

http://www.patentgen.../7982687-5.html

http://www.patentgen...nt/7982687.html

#177 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 05:34 PM

Ran across some interesting items regarding reflecting the Ku signal from 101 back toward the base of the dish and passing the Ka signal from 101 through to the dish arm.

http://www.patentgen.../7982687-5.html

http://www.patentgen...nt/7982687.html


That is very cool! A selectively reflective/passive surface that allows both Ka and Ku at 101°! One frequency range would be folded back toward the base of the LNB arm and the other passed thru to the current LNB head.

Cheers,
Tom
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#178 OFFLINE   David Ortiz

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 07:52 PM

That is very cool! A selectively reflective/passive surface that allows both Ka and Ku at 101°! One frequency range would be folded back toward the base of the LNB arm and the other passed thru to the current LNB head.

Cheers,
Tom


The patent also outlines the new feedhorns for 99° and 103° as to be designed to receive 17.3-20.2GHz, which would include Ka high, Ka low, and the reverse band frequencies.

#179 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 08:06 PM

Very nice find!

Thank you Mr. Ortiz.

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#180 OFFLINE   LameLefty

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 08:30 PM

The patent also outlines the new feedhorns for 99° and 103° as to be designed to receive 17.3-20.2GHz, which would include Ka high, Ka low, and the reverse band frequencies.


Awesome. :)

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