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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Should I call DTV or a tree pruner?


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45 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   itzme

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 03:34 PM

I'm getting alot to consider with all this expertise. Things I'm still wondering.

1) am I not future-proofing if I step down from 5 lnb to a 3 lnb. Future channels?

2) Can I see a list somewhere of the locals and other channels I might lose? Ones that are on 119 in my market? Cincinnati? I think our sports is on 119.

3) Monopole, meaning what???

4) If I call DTV before addressing the tree, am I wasting time and money. Will the tech look for alternative solutions? maybe move the dish? Change the LNB? Hey, might he upgrade me to SWM?

You all have been VERY helpful. Dennis especially if he'd just bring over that darn bucket ;)

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#27 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 03:58 PM

You all have been VERY helpful. Dennis especially if he'd just bring over that darn bucket ;)

Ever see Texas Chainsaw Massacre? :D

I think they're done with the props. ;)
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#28 ONLINE   dennisj00

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 04:01 PM

You all have been VERY helpful. Dennis especially if he'd just bring over that darn bucket ;)


I'm afraid the rental / gas / travel would be out of both of our leagues!! Just cut the damn tree down!

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#29 OFFLINE   HDTVsportsfan

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 07:22 PM

I'm getting alot to consider with all this expertise. Things I'm still wondering.

1) am I not future-proofing if I step down from 5 lnb to a 3 lnb. Future channels?

2) Can I see a list somewhere of the locals and other channels I might lose? Ones that are on 119 in my market? Cincinnati? I think our sports is on 119.

3) Monopole, meaning what???

4) If I call DTV before addressing the tree, am I wasting time and money. Will the tech look for alternative solutions? maybe move the dish? Change the LNB? Hey, might he upgrade me to SWM?

You all have been VERY helpful. Dennis especially if he'd just bring over that darn bucket ;)


Response to #1: DirecTV's new Sats going up seem to be in the 99 thru 103 slots. They are making an active effort to get away from going any further than 103. You should be good foryears to come going down to a 3.

Response to #3: Monopoles are support poles that helps keep the dish from swaying or wobbling in the wind.

Response to #4: It's hard to say if you'd be wasting your time. Without a site survey it's impossible for anyone here to know. If the dish is able to get moved, some cable would have to be moved with it or new ones run. Coming out just for a dish alignment probably would be a waste.
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#30 OFFLINE   eakes

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 07:39 PM

Today you are not receiving 119, all its transponders are reading 0 or NA. If you are not missing any channels you desire and/or normally watch then there is nothing on 119 that is of interest to you. Changing to a 3LNB feedhorn will 'fix' the guide data problem. You may be able to persuade Directv to change the LNB since you have demonstrated blockage of 119. the tech may even change you to SWM if all your existing receivers are compatible.

Other than changing the feed, the next best solution is to raise the antenna until you have clearance over the tree.

#31 OFFLINE   itzme

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 09:29 PM

You could also see about having the dish put higher to get above the tree line. I have an SL3 and the installer had to mount it on my roof because the near by trees were blocking alot of the signal areas. This was when I was being upgraded to HD from SD. Got a SL3 vs 18"


Today you are not receiving 119, all its transponders are reading 0 or NA. If you are not missing any channels you desire and/or normally watch then there is nothing on 119 that is of interest to you. Changing to a 3LNB feedhorn will 'fix' the guide data problem. You may be able to persuade Directv to change the LNB since you have demonstrated blockage of 119. the tech may even change you to SWM if all your existing receivers are compatible.

Other than changing the feed, the next best solution is to raise the antenna until you have clearance over the tree.


Good point. After I posted that question I went next door to my neighbor who I referred to DTV. His install was last week. His Sat is about 20 ft across from mine (cleverly hidden on the inside of his chimney). Anyway I went to check his readings on the 119. Know what? He doesn't even have 119 on his SWM setup. I cycled through all the sats, its not there.

The 3LNB is sounding like a good solution.

I'm a geek with the HRs features, but not at all up on how the satellite signal itself feeds the box. But it does seem that I should be able to change the config or a setting and make the box think its getting signals from a 3 LNB, so I d get guide data. I know that isn't so, but it just seems like it should be possible.

#32 OFFLINE   Ted M

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 05:39 AM

It seems like it should be possible, but it isn't.

You CAN, in the satellite setup, choose a Slim Line 3, but that leads to guide data problems.

If you tune to a channel that comes from 119, or 110, or 103, the guide data will want to come from 119, which is no longer available.

If you tune to a channel that comes from 99 or 101, the guide data comes from 101.

It is the electronics in the LNB that determines what satellite the guide data comes from, not the satellite receiver.

I had a tree problem with 119 also. I sent an email to DTV tech support and they said that if using HD they recommend a 5-LNB. This is because if any new channels come along they will be on 110 or 119.

The trees in my case are 200 feet from the dish, and some are on the property of a neighbor.

Rather than spend thousands on tree cutting I bought a 3-LNB, installed it myself, redid the setup and now I have no guide problems.

The only thing I lost are the Standard Definition locals. The Hi Def ones comes in fine, so no loss. I don't care about any "new" channels. There are more than enough now.

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Northern New Hampshire

#33 OFFLINE   itzme

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 09:30 AM

I've pretty much gotten all my answers, but this one falls under the category of "just curious" And since I've got the experts all here, I'll ask..

How AM I getting Guide Data at all? The signal strength indicates constant 0s for 119, Test Channels 9513 and 9514 give me a 771. Yet my Guide is pretty much always 2 weeks out and complete, unless I Reset twice, which I've done before, and the guide seems to fill naturally. Does Guide Data contain Data other than what I see in the Guide?

#34 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 09:37 AM

I've pretty much gotten all my answers, but this one falls under the category of "just curious" And since I've got the experts all here, I'll ask..

How AM I getting Guide Data at all? The signal strength indicates constant 0s for 119, Test Channels 9513 and 9514 give me a 771. Yet my Guide is pretty much always 2 weeks out and complete, unless I Reset twice, which I've done before, and the guide seems to fill naturally. Does Guide Data contain Data other than what I see in the Guide?

:nono:

The two slots are 101 & 119 that both have the guide data.
If you stay tuned to the HD off the 99 SAT, then the data comes from 101.
If you change to channels off the 103 SAT, then the data needs to come from 119.
Changing to the 3LNB, keeps the 101 signals always active, so it no longer matters whether you're tuned to 99 or 103.
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#35 OFFLINE   itzme

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 09:43 AM

Gotcha! Finally. Thanks.

So now a follow-up question. Sometimes I notice one of my tuners is on the default Restart channel (channel 201 I think). I never tune to that channel myself. Does that maybe indicate that the DVR auto-tuned there in an effort to get guide data off the 101? Could it indicate that since the DVR couldn't get guide data, that it may have Restarted on its own.

#36 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 09:48 AM

Gotcha! Finally. Thanks.

So now a follow-up question. Sometimes I notice one of my tuners is on the default Restart channel (channel 201 I think). I never tune to that channel myself. Does that maybe indicate that the DVR auto-tuned there in an effort to get guide data off the 101? Could it indicate that since the DVR couldn't get guide data, that it may have Restarted on its own.

:shrug:
Mine only changes to 201 after a major reset.
A.K.A VOS

#37 OFFLINE   itzme

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 10:40 AM

:shrug:
Mine only changes to 201 after a major reset.


So its either auto-tuning to 201, or its resetting. Hmmmm. Interesting. Leads me to think its coded to try to deal with my guide data issue.

#38 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 10:43 AM

So its either auto-tuning to 201, or its resetting. Hmmmm. Interesting. Leads me to think its coded to try to deal with my guide data issue.

I'm thinking this is a planned result in the firmware - after a reset, default to a channel everyone gets to start with....on one of my HD DVRs, this occurs to channel 1, on another, its 201.
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#39 OFFLINE   itzme

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 11:29 AM

I agree, but I still wonder if its a reset or an auto-tune in my case. I might try dimming my blue light to tell. Here's another anomoly-fwiw: I have 3 HRs. 2 display the guide data error msg frequently, one never does.

#40 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 11:30 AM

I agree, but I still wonder if its a reset or an auto-tune in my case. I might try dimming my blue light to tell. Here's another anomoly-fwiw: I have 3 HRs. 2 display the guide data error msg frequently, one never does.

Don't make me call the Ripley's folks. :D

I think that once you address your LOS issues...you should see if some of these things remain...
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#41 OFFLINE   itzme

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 10:55 AM

I wanted to post an update. On Sunday I got a ladder, an extension saw, and a teenager, and the photos attached should show you what I accomplished. You can compare it to the photos I posted before. It was the best we could do in my LOS efforts, and while not perfect, I haven't had the Guide Data nag appear on the screen on any DVRs in the house since the trim.

But the Alignment test still fails, on all 3 HRs. And about the only change in signal strength readings that I see (compared to my first post) are:

Sat 119
Still usually reads all 0s, but occasionally xponder #31 reads around 50. I'm guessing this is why I haven't seen the Guide Data nag screen since pruning.

Sat 110
those the xponders are now 75,83,77

103 (s)
I see an extra xponder
17-24: 77 88 0 0 86 88 0 0

So I called DTV this morning and I got them to address the failed System Test with the Dish alignment diagnostic code on all 3 HRs in the house. But I also raised the topic of another issue that I have (many of you know about from other threads) and that is one DVR has a bad jitter/dropped-frame issue. I've done about 4 HDD Surface Scan tests and each time that fixes the issue but only temporarily for 2-4 days.

DTV tells me that they have to address the alignment problem before they will address the jitters on that one DVR.

The CSR Tech read me that the repair ticket and it mentions the failed alignment test and the jittery DVR. Now I'm trying to prepare myself for all the scenarios with the tech tomorrow. While there is a good chance he fixes the alignment issue (maybe he changes the LNB, maybe he moved the dish a little, etc.), there is also a chance he diagnosis the tree needing more trimming and does nothing.

Regardless of the scenario, I feel certain the the bad DVR will continue to jitter. I'd be a million bucks that has nothing to do with signal strength or alignment. If that's the case, I wonder how I should proceed. Since the ticket mentions the jitters, I won't sign off on the repair ticket if I still have a bad DVR. Right? Any advice? Anything I should do before the tech comes in the morning? :confused:

Attached Thumbnails

  • PICT0024 (Medium).JPG
  • PICT0023 (Medium).JPG

Edited by itzme, 27 July 2010 - 10:56 AM.
Ignore the Pine tree in 2nd photo, it is behind the dish


#42 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 11:09 AM

Now that you show the "other tree", I'm not sure that location will work anymore. "Maybe" the SL3 would clear them, but it's hard to tell from any of your photos.
A better shot would be from below the dish, pointing to the LOS and having the LNB arm in view.
I've never seen "jitter" cured my dish alignment.
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#43 OFFLINE   itzme

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 12:01 PM

That other tree (the pine) is behind the dish and is not an issue at all. The depth and the LOS are hard to get a picture of without making the brick wall disappear to get a true LOS angle. I tried to take this pic from the angle you asked. But I fully understand the "V" aspect of LOS. Those trees in the distance (lower left, below) are not a problem for my next door neighbor's dish, so I've sort of ruled them out. Dishpointer's Obstacle Feature reads "d=165', h-145' and since those trees don't affect his signal, I don't think they're my problem, just the close tree.

The pruning cleared that "V" LOS by, I'd guess, 50-75%. If you compare it to my 1st post.

I agree that an alignment won't fix jitters, but apparently the CSR/Tech at DTV thinks we can't talk replacement DVR until the alignment is done. I'll guess I'll just go with the flow when the tech makes his service call and sees all my issues. I just hope he doesn't try to take the easy way out (You gotta remove that tree).

Attached Thumbnails

  • PICT0025 (Medium).JPG


#44 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 12:15 PM

From that shot, it looks like the SL3 would be the easiest thing to change [to] and simply no longer care about 110 & 119.
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#45 OFFLINE   itzme

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 12:28 PM

From that shot, it looks like the SL3 would be the easiest thing to change [to] and simply no longer care about 110 & 119.


If the service tech does go the SL3 route, do you think he'll change out my legacy install for SWM? Or is that not necessary? BTW, per my photos, mine is a 5lnb, right? Slimline 5?

#46 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 12:42 PM

If the service tech does go the SL3 route, do you think he'll change out my legacy install for SWM? Or is that not necessary? BTW, per my photos, mine is a 5lnb, right? Slimline 5?

Yes that is a Slimline 5.
"Would guess" he wouldn't change it to a SWiM, since the LNB swap will be easier/quicker.
A.K.A VOS




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