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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Please fill me in on HDMI.

speaker grills

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25 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Jon J

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 01:39 PM

I just received a new HD set and it has 4 HDMI inputs and 1 component input. I'll be feeding it with my 3 HD DVRs...2 HR20s and an HR21. I have enough HDMI cables to use only HDMI to connect to the set.

I have read there have been some HDMI issues in the past. Are they cleared up now?
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#2 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 01:42 PM

HDMI is a fickle product, but when it works it works well.

I'd probably just use the three HDMI inputs and see how it works. I've never had HDMI issues with my DVR's.

If you use the component for one of them, you'll have to wire for audio too (if you use the TV's audio), so HDMI can be a lot cleaner.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#3 OFFLINE   shedberg

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 01:42 PM

I haven't had any issues but it may depend on the TV brand/model.

#4 OFFLINE   john18

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 01:57 PM

When HDMI first came out I would frequently have handshake issues between components (especially a first generation HD-DVD player) and my AVR. As the technology improved, including me making upgrades in my DVD players to a Blu Ray unit and a last generation HD-DVD player, I have never since had issues with HDMI handshakes or anything else.

YMMV, but I think you should be fine.

#5 OFFLINE   skatingrocker17

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 12:47 PM

Use HDMI whenever possible.

#6 OFFLINE   Scott Kocourek

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 01:25 PM

I have had issues with HDMI on two different Sony TV's, one has been corrected and I changed things around to make it a non issue on the other.

To answer your question, try HDMI first and if you have problems change over to component.

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#7 OFFLINE   Jon J

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 04:17 PM

I have had issues with HDMI on two different Sony TV's, one has been corrected and I changed things around to make it a non issue on the other.

To answer your question, try HDMI first and if you have problems change over to component.

This worries me. It's a Sony 46NX700 and it has 4 HDMI inputs but only 1 component input. I've got 3 DVRs so I hope the HDMI is not a problem. :eek2:
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#8 OFFLINE   Scott Kocourek

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 04:25 PM

My HR22-100's all work HDMI with both of my Sony TV's, I only had a problem a while back with the HR22's and it's since been fixed. It is only the HR24-100 that has an issue with my newer Sony HDMI. The HR24-100 has only been out for a very short time, I don't think I'd worry about it. The 24 issue may have been fixed already too, I just chose to hook it up to my LG tv and haven't had a problem since.

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#9 OFFLINE   Manctech

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 07:04 PM

HDMI is very sensitive. Almost every day I find a HR/H that has the HDMI ports knocked out by lightning. These aren't even close strikes, they just blow so easy. Also, HDMI's on TV's are getting knocked out left and right as well.

I would recommend anyone unplug the HDMI from the TV whenever a storm approaches.

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#10 OFFLINE   TomCat

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 07:12 PM

Use HDMI whenever possible.

Based on what?
It's usually safe to talk honestly and openly with people because they typically are not really listening anyway.

#11 OFFLINE   HDTVsportsfan

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 07:18 PM

He probably means just for the simplicty of one cable and protected content requirements. But many of course use A/V's and have desires to use other configs for audio.
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#12 OFFLINE   eweiner1

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 07:19 PM

I too have multiple inputs using HDMI cables, but I chose to go a different route. I routed all my HDMI cables to my surround sound receiver, so I get the benefit of 5.1 sound no matter which input device I use, whether it's a DVR, game console, or Hi-Def DVD player.

I choose which device I want to watch, and the receiver does all the switching, and outputs to a single HDMI cable to the hi-def tv. 5.1 sound is them automatically played, no matter which device I chose to watch.

#13 OFFLINE   bemenaker

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 01:21 PM

HDMI has most bandwidth available and is the only all pure digital HD signal you can run to your TV. Component is an analogue signal susceptible to noise interference, and the higher in frequency you go in analogue, the more interference prone your signal is. HDMI issues have mostly gone away anymore. Most of the problems were in the HDCP (encryption for copy protection). I have never seen a handshake issue. I know they exist but are rare. If you experience them, check your TV manufacturers website for a firmware update for your TV. (Yes that is an important thing to do with their complexities these days).

#14 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 01:27 PM

He probably means just for the simplicty of one cable and protected content requirements [...]

Also a requirement if the OP plans on watching any 1080p VOD or PPV.
/steve

#15 OFFLINE   jaguar325

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 02:35 PM

The first thing you will notice is the delay caused by the DVR syncing up with the TV... depending on TV, it can take 3-10 seconds or so. I would advise using quality cables which have helped solve some sync issues in the past (the 1.3 or newer spec.). As already stated by another poster, life is much easier if you can hook 'em all up to an A/V receiver and let it do the switching vs. switching TV inputs all the time. If you're thinking of this and concerned with losing the direct-connect to the TV, most of the newer ones have a passthru feature that will allow HDMI to pass through to the TV even when the receiver is off - the down side being if you have multiple DVRs, it looks to whichever one was being last run through the A/V receiver or, in at least in the case of Yamaha, you can tell it which one to default to for pass-through. If you do this, you could use MRV and setup one DVR as the default and go through it to pick up programming on the other two. My wife hated using the A/V receiver in the past because she'd get confused with input settings and such. Now, with MRV, she just turns on the TV and A/V receiver, never changes the input and watches whatever she wants off our 3 networked DVRs. I don't think we've ever watched signal off the redundant direct-connect I hooked up "just in case".

Good luck.

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#16 OFFLINE   skatingrocker17

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 05:07 PM

Based on what?


Best possible quality and simplicity.

#17 OFFLINE   TomCat

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 12:35 AM

Best possible quality and simplicity.

The simplicity argument is debatable; it is how you define simplicity. There can't be anything much more simple than hooking up 3 cables (plus audio) and having it be instant and perfectly reliable. Hooking up one cable that has delay issues and potential reliability issues is another definition of simplicity, but not the only one and not the one everyone will agree is the most simple.

The "best quality" issue is little more than a well-held myth; not true, and that it is not true is not debatable. Your DVR manual even buys into this, but it is still a myth; still not true. Component quality can be every bit as good as HDMI quality. No one here has ever been able to mount a cogent argument for HDMI having better quality. They parrot back that mantra daily, but never are able to support it.

HDMI has most bandwidth available and is the only all pure digital HD signal you can run to your TV. Component is an analogue signal susceptible to noise interference...

Higher bandwidth is not relevant if you already have enough bandwidth available. Component has more than plenty (although how that applies to how well the protocol passes the signal without degradation is different from analog to digital). "Pure digital" is a meaningless term. It may qualify a signal as "not analog" or "other than analog", but it does not imbue it with any attributes that "pure analog" does not already have in this particular application. And in this particular application, analog works just as well.

Analog signals are indeed susceptible to noise and interference (which are two very different artifacts, BTW; there is no such thing, technically speaking, as "noise interference"; noise is noise; interference is interference). But not in the application of a 2-meter shielded coaxial cable impedance matched to both source and destination. Such cables are rated for well over a 60 dB rejection, which is a level of potential interference that human vision just can't detect (at levels even well above what can be found behind a typical home entertainment center hookup), making analog transport from consumer source to consumer destination just as viable as digital transport in that particular application.

Bottom line, there is no aspect of HDMI that applies less degradation to the signal than does analog. From a PQ point of view in this particular application, they have virtually equal ability and quality. Much more in play would be the particular quality of the DAC in your set compared to the DAC in your DVR (the one in your set is in play when using HDMI, while the one in your DVR is in play when using component). But as it turns out, each works about as well as the other, and there is very little difference between them (they may even be identical chips). If there were a difference, that difference might even favor the component path over the HDMI path. Or vice versa.

...the higher in frequency you go in analogue, the more interference prone your signal is...

First of all, unless you are a Brit, you need to stop calling it "analogue". Second, that argument is total BS and even if it weren't, doesn't apply to this situation. The amount of potential interference (which we have already established as nil and not an issue in this application) has nothing whatsoever to do with frequency. It has to do with two things only,

1) whether there is a competing signal at a particular frequency and how strong it is (and nothing says higher frequency signals are necessarily that strong-- a Ka signal can be at 18 MHz yet still be -200 dB below a reference signal at a lower frequency, and almost always is),

and 2) how well a system rejects that interference at that frequency (and shielded coaxial cable pretty much rejects ingress at all frequencies about the same, and at least well enough to keep it from being a problem).
It's usually safe to talk honestly and openly with people because they typically are not really listening anyway.

#18 OFFLINE   jaguar325

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 08:30 AM

I have never been sold on the higher quality argument (for HDMI signal) either... would have stayed with component except it left me with no option for 1080p. I don't watch 1080p content every day but enough that I want it.
- HR22-100 & HR20-100 to: Mitsubishi 52244 LCD and 52249 LCD shared w/ HDMI splitters
- H21-100 (2) to: Sony KDL46XBR2 LCD (HDMI), Sony KDL46W3000 LCD (HDMI)
- HR20-700 to: Mitsubishi HD 60" Rear-Projection (component)
- 3LNB Slimline with Zinwell WB616 and WB68
- Gefen 2-way HDMI 1.3 splitters on HR20-100 and HR22-100
- Yamaha RX-V2065/V800/V2090/V1070, YSP800
- Thunder provided by M&K, Def Tech subs

#19 OFFLINE   billsharpe

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 12:00 PM

The one-cable connection instead of five makes HDMI a no-brainer for me. I agree that, at least on my 40-inch Sony set, there's no discernible difference in PQ between the two.
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#20 OFFLINE   skatingrocker17

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 12:06 PM

The one-cable connection instead of five makes HDMI a no-brainer for me. I agree that, at least on my 40-inch Sony set, there's no discernible difference in PQ between the two.


That's true but when you've got a 50 foot component cable the difference is very noticeable and distracting. Xbox 360 also has tiny bit of ghosting when set to 1080p on my 50" plasma but 720p looks okay but HDMI eliminates the problem altogether.




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