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Guest Message by DevFuse

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On which channels do you have audio dropouts?


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926 replies to this topic

#201 OFFLINE   Die Hard

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 08:22 PM

... and if it bothers you a lot, turn Dolby Digital off (in your sat box), which seems to help a lot of people hide the problem.

I like DD so much, I leave mine on, and tolerate the drop-outs (at least for now).[/QUOTE]

I've spent many hours comparing the results of Dolby Digital on vs Dolby Digital off (on sat. box). With it off, my Denon outputs the sound in Dolby Prologic II C which is not really all that bad.
With Dolby Digital turned off, the audio drops are greatly reduced but not completely gone. So, I 've decided to leave Dolby Digital turned off (on sat. box) because it does provide some relief from the audio drops.

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#202 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 08:28 PM

I again recorded Penn & Teller Bullsh*t east and west coast feeds on Thursday. Both recordings had the same exact dropouts, total of four during the half hour show.

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#203 OFFLINE   The Fuzz 53

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 07:54 AM

4 drop outs during the Thursday nights new episode of Futurama on 249. Drops occured at the 3, 5, 12 and 28 minute marks.

#204 OFFLINE   bigzeto

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 08:57 AM

It would be nice to hear back from an engineer at Directv saying they're starting to narrow down the problem. I feel all of us are giving this data and we're not getting any feedback.

Watched the Saints-Patriots game on NFL network last night. Dropouts occurred every few minutes. Also, there were frequent dropouts during the PGA Championship on TNT.

#205 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 10:51 AM

Just watched a FOX OTA episode of The Office recorded 8/12 ("Branch Closing"), and there must have been at least 12 audio dropouts in the first 15 minutes. HDMI audio and video to a Panny plasma, DD "on".
/steve

#206 OFFLINE   DarinC

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 05:35 PM

Had some today on NatGeo HD and SyFyHD.
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#207 OFFLINE   southface

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 09:59 PM

Enough. Safe to say that the majority if not all of the HD channels exhibit this error with some degree depending the receivers "lock on" software.

#208 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 10:27 PM

Enough. Safe to say that the majority if not all of the HD channels exhibit this error with some degree depending the receivers "lock on" software.

What is "lock on" software? :confused:
A.K.A VOS

#209 OFFLINE   Go Beavs

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 10:31 PM

Quite a few on Animal Planet HD ~9:30pm PDT on my HR21-100.

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#210 OFFLINE   keenan

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 12:28 AM

One thing that's interesting is that DIRECTV takes a signal that's already MPEG4, such as HBO, or any NBC/Uni signal like Syfy, USA Network, etc, and by re-encoding it to their MPEG4/encryption scheme produces a signal that contains these audio problems.

Note that many times I've had these dropouts on DIRECTV, and checked the very same program on my Comcast feed, even MPEG4 sourced channels like those noted above, and there are no audio issues.

#211 OFFLINE   Die Hard

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 05:13 AM

I know that every AVR handles this Dolby Digital glitch in a different way and some exhibit the audio drop to a lesser extent than others.
Does anyone know of specific make/model AVR that handles this glitch completely without exhibiting any audio dropouts?
I'm nearing a point where I might be willing to buy a reciever that can recover fast enough, if this is possible, just to get away from these annoying audio dropouts.

#212 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 07:28 AM

I know that every AVR handles this Dolby Digital glitch in a different way and some exhibit the audio drop to a lesser extent than others.
Does anyone know of specific make/model AVR that handles this glitch completely without exhibiting any audio dropouts?
I'm nearing a point where I might be willing to buy a reciever that can recover fast enough, if this is possible, just to get away from these annoying audio dropouts.

If the dropout is in the feed, and is more than say one millisecond. I don't think there is an AVR out there that won't show them.
The Sonys I've used are quick, but if there is no sound for any time, then these can't make it up and give you sound.
Most [but not all] of the dropouts I've had are very short, so if yours are lasting more than a second, another AVR may help "reduce" the length of them.
A.K.A VOS

#213 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 07:35 AM

One thing that's interesting is that DIRECTV takes a signal that's already MPEG4, such as HBO, or any NBC/Uni signal like Syfy, USA Network, etc, and by re-encoding it to their MPEG4/encryption scheme produces a signal that contains these audio problems.

Note that many times I've had these dropouts on DIRECTV, and checked the very same program on my Comcast feed, even MPEG4 sourced channels like those noted above, and there are no audio issues.

Googling didn't come up with anything about MPEG-4 and Comcast, so do you have any links/info where cable is using MPEG-4 and the channels you've listed as being MPEG-4?
There would be no reason for DirecTV to re-encode say an HBO MPEG-4 feed and Saturday's movie had some bad dropouts.
A.K.A VOS

#214 OFFLINE   keenan

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 11:08 AM

Googling didn't come up with anything about MPEG-4 and Comcast, so do you have any links/info where cable is using MPEG-4 and the channels you've listed as being MPEG-4?
There would be no reason for DirecTV to re-encode say an HBO MPEG-4 feed and Saturday's movie had some bad dropouts.


HBO went to MPEG4 for distribution around a year and a half ago, maybe two years. NBC about the same time, of course those signals are re-encoded back to MPEG2 for ATSC use. With HBO though DIRECTV is taking an MPEG4 signal, doing something to it, re-encoding/encrypting, and somehow producing audio dropouts for delivery via their MPEG4 system.

Comcast takes those same signals are converts them back to MPEG2 for their local distribution and doesn't have any audio problems.

I suppose my point is that listing stations and when they have a dropout is akin to killing ants one by one instead of just removing the anthill, the problem has to be somewhere in the DIRECTV signal distribution scheme. If they can't get the current encoders to work properly they need to be replaced, as I noted elsewhere, AT&T doesn't have this problem so apparently there are encoders that can do job properly.

It's my speculation, since this has been going on for over a year now, is that the tech staff wants the info in this thread to bandaid, or suppress the problem as much as possible, until such time that DIRECTV purchases a new round of encoders. It usually comes down to money, and at this point it's probably more cost effective for them to "fine-tune" the issue as buying new encoders is expensive.

It's just too bad that DIRECTV subjects it's subscribers to a sub-par audio product, imagine a dropout at the exact moment the ball hit the bat when A-Rod hit his 600th homerun, that wouldn't be very satisfying would it? It's bad enough words of dialog get dropped now, it's just inexcusable in my opinion to allow this to go on so long.

#215 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 12:20 PM

With HBO though DIRECTV is taking an MPEG4 signal, doing something to it, re-encoding/encrypting, and somehow producing audio dropouts for delivery via their MPEG4 system.

So it seems like they don't need to transcode/convert this feed and so adding the encryption and then feeding it to the statistical multiplexer, or whatever it's called, that varies the bandwidth used by each channel may be where a problem is added.
I don't know all of this part, and find it a bit hard to understand "how", but on each transponder, all the channels have a varying [not fixed] bandwidth, which allows for better utilization of the overall bandwidth, by "borrowing" unused bandwidth from other channels that are only needing/using low bit-rates at the moment.

[side note]
I had a problem with my local PBS [720p] when they aired Ken Burn's national parks. These had bit-rates at or slightly over 20mb/s which worked fine for the airings at 2 AM, and barely worked for any that aired during primetime. these also used twice the disk space of other HD recordings which was my first clue that they were "something different".

Maybe the encoders are only part of the problem. :shrug:
A.K.A VOS

#216 OFFLINE   txfeinbergs

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 12:55 PM

I know that every AVR handles this Dolby Digital glitch in a different way and some exhibit the audio drop to a lesser extent than others.
Does anyone know of specific make/model AVR that handles this glitch completely without exhibiting any audio dropouts?
I'm nearing a point where I might be willing to buy a reciever that can recover fast enough, if this is possible, just to get away from these annoying audio dropouts.


I'll let you know tomorrow whether there is any improvement between a Onkyo SR805 and a Pioneer 1120-K. That is when my new system arrives. I have saved a program with glitches in it to compare. The Onkyo is around 2 seconds per glitch.

I would also love to know (officially) though which receivers are best at handling this DirecTV error. I am pretty much taking a blind leap of faith here that Pioneer handles it better based on the lack of Pioneer complaints I have seen on here. In fact, going by complaints alone, Onkyo is the worst, followed shortly afterwards by Denon. I have seen very few complaints from Sony and Yamaha owners (if any), and none from Pioneer.

I am just surprised that no magazine publications have picked up on these problems yet. I am sure DirecTV would move a whole heck of a lot faster if they started getting some negative press.

#217 OFFLINE   trdrjeff

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 01:40 PM

Had several short drops during Next FoodNetwork Star
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#218 OFFLINE   DC_SnDvl

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 05:36 PM

VOS,

The question might be when don't we have audio dropouts. It is getting to the point where I don't think I have watched anything over the past week or so that have not had audio problems.

#219 OFFLINE   Die Hard

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 06:33 PM

I'll let you know tomorrow whether there is any improvement between a Onkyo SR805 and a Pioneer 1120-K. That is when my new system arrives. I have saved a program with glitches in it to compare. The Onkyo is around 2 seconds per glitch.

I would also love to know (officially) though which receivers are best at handling this DirecTV error. I am pretty much taking a blind leap of faith here that Pioneer handles it better based on the lack of Pioneer complaints I have seen on here. In fact, going by complaints alone, Onkyo is the worst, followed shortly afterwards by Denon. I have seen very few complaints from Sony and Yamaha owners (if any), and none from Pioneer.

I am just surprised that no magazine publications have picked up on these problems yet. I am sure DirecTV would move a whole heck of a lot faster if they started getting some negative press.


It will be nice to know your results. I do use a Denon 1610 (via HDMI) in my living room, but I also use an older Sony STR-DE845 (via optical) in my basement. And yes the Sony may only exhibit 1-2 audio drops per hour compared to the Denon which may average 4 audio drops per hour, but the Denon is newer and handles Blu-ray so I can't make the switch.
But,as I said, I would be interested in finding an AVR that could recover and not exhibit the audio drop, if such an AVR does exist!!!!!!!

#220 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 06:41 PM

VOS,

The question might be when don't we have audio dropouts. It is getting to the point where I don't think I have watched anything over the past week or so that have not had audio problems.

Are you asking me to now list shows that I don't have this problem with?
Believe it or not, there are some shows I watch that don't have this and others I do that do have them. USA, TNT are ones that do off the top of my head.
A.K.A VOS




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