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On which channels do you have audio dropouts?


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928 replies to this topic

#126 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 09:49 AM

Oh and by the way my HR24-500 had several audio drops on The Daily Show last night.

Channel: COMHD
Receiver: Yamaha HTR5940 Dolby Digital via coax digital audio out

Edited by Stuart Sweet, 05 August 2010 - 10:26 AM.

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#127 OFFLINE   bdyer

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 09:56 AM

Main one I've noticed:

FXHD - 249

Reciever: Onkyo 705
TV: Mitsubishi 73-833

#128 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 10:24 AM

I recorded Penn & Teller BS repeat showing on Showtime East and West last night. Something had changed since on the original airdate showings there were audio drops on both feeds at the same exact spot, last night they were gone.

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#129 OFFLINE   nollchr

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 01:03 PM

FXHD
Cartoon HD
Fox News HD
HR20-700
Denon AVR-1602 via optical

HDMI to Vizio 42" (not using TV speakers)

Note: My newer Denon AVR-788 via HDMI to the AVR has no audio dropout.

Edited by nollchr, 12 August 2010 - 09:10 AM.
Added dtv receiver type


#130 OFFLINE   txfeinbergs

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 01:42 PM

FXHD
Cartoon HD
Fox News HD

Denon AVR-1602 via optical

HDMI to Vizio 42" (not using TV speakers)

Note: My newer Denon AVR-788 via HDMI to the AVR has no audio dropout.


That is good to hear about the newer Denon's. I am hoping that most AVR producers are realizing that building in better robustness handling to their data stream processing is not exactly a bad thing.

#131 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 01:47 PM

That is good to hear about the newer Denon's. I am hoping that most AVR producers are realizing that building in better robustness handling to their data stream processing is not exactly a bad thing.


FWIW, I have a Denon AVR-891, which I would call a newer receiver and it has the audio drops.

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#132 OFFLINE   tsduke

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 04:35 PM

I'm curious now that this thread is 100+ posts in...

How is everyone listing channels of any value when we're pretty much at all HD channels now?

I can't honestly list you a HD channel that hasn't dropped out.

#133 OFFLINE   hasan

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 05:56 PM

I'm curious now that this thread is 100+ posts in...

How is everyone listing channels of any value when we're pretty much at all HD channels now?

I can't honestly list you a HD channel that hasn't dropped out.


It's called aggregation of data. No one can monitor all of them. All of us have favorites. To the extent they don't overlap, then there is a pretty wide sampling of the problem. It's the best we can do with how we watch TV, don't you think?

Let's say that 20 people here watch USA network. Further, all 20 report audio drop outs.12 of them report it on a specific program at a specific time. When shown twice, are the dropouts in the same place? By comparing the rate of drop outs (per half-hour or hour) at a specific time (recorded or live), then we begin to get a grip on the nature and severity of the problem.

The same thing is true of any channel we gather data on. Instead of reporting, "they all do it", try to provide something useful like:

Network/Channel
Program (time viewed/time recorded)
Frequency of drops per 1/2 hr or hour
Duration (of the drop)
AVR and how it gets its audio.

This information is potentially useful. Saying "they all do it" is vacuous at best, for the purpose this thread was opened
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#134 OFFLINE   tsduke

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 06:18 PM

It's called aggregation of data. No one can monitor all of them. All of us have favorites. To the extent they don't overlap, then there is a pretty wide sampling of the problem. It's the best we can do with how we watch TV, don't you think?

Let's say that 20 people here watch USA network. Further, all 20 report audio drop outs.12 of them report it on a specific program at a specific time. When shown twice, are the dropouts in the same place? By comparing the rate of drop outs (per half-hour or hour) at a specific time (recorded or live), then we begin to get a grip on the nature and severity of the problem.

The same thing is true of any channel we gather data on. Instead of reporting, "they all do it", try to provide something useful like:

Network/Channel
Program (time viewed/time recorded)
Frequency of drops per 1/2 hr or hour
Duration (of the drop)
AVR and how it gets its audio.

This information is potentially useful. Saying "they all do it" is vacuous at best, for the purpose this thread was opened


I thought, and still do think my question was quite valid. We're going on a year of this. They alreay know all of this information. I've spoken to multiple engineers. One even told me this issue doesn't rank high enough to warrant time to correct because only us enthusiast complain.

By the way, if you were reading the entire thread I've already posted some of the worst offending channels. Tonight, I've had 15+ dropouts on StarzHD-527 in the last 2:15.

#135 OFFLINE   hasan

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 06:52 PM

I thought, and still do think my question was quite valid. We're going on a year of this. They alreay know all of this information. I've spoken to multiple engineers. One even told me this issue doesn't rank high enough to warrant time to correct because only us enthusiast complain.

By the way, if you were reading the entire thread I've already posted some of the worst offending channels. Tonight, I've had 15+ dropouts on StarzHD-527 in the last 2:15.


Now, the last sentence was useful. Thanks. I could never report on that one, as I don't subscribe to premiums.

...and no, they don't know "all this information". We are collecting new stuff, with enough specifics to help nail it down. I doubt anyone previously took the time to provide the necessary information over a reasonable time period to give us a hint at what might resolve the problem. Not to mention, if they make adjustments and we don't bother to specifically report, we end up with misleading data to gauge the improvement or lack thereof against..

We have someone talking to an engineer who is engaged with the problem. He wants the info. Worst offending channels is nebulous. We are after counts per unit of time at a specific time, and equipment being used..

Everything else is noise, given what is being attempted in this thread.

If people don't want to participate in a useful manner (not aimed at you, btw), please start another thread and carry on. This one has a specified purpose, so let's stick to our knitting.
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#136 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 07:09 PM

One even told me this issue doesn't rank high enough to warrant time to correct because only us enthusiast complain.

Not sure who you were talking with, but I doubt very much that this is the broadcast center's opinion. If it was then I can tell you they wouldn't be reading this and the other thread as much as they are.
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#137 OFFLINE   tsduke

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 07:12 PM

I doubt anyone previously took the time to provide the necessary information over a reasonable time period to give us a hint at what might resolve the problem. Not to mention, if they make adjustments and we don't bother to specifically report, we end up with misleading data to gauge the improvement or lack thereof against..


Not exactly true. I was in contact with the same engineer 2-3 times a week discussing specifics tests, scenarios and comparing recordings for close to 2 months. This was in April & May.

#138 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 07:15 PM

Not exactly true. I was in contact with the same engineer 2-3 times a week discussing specifics tests, scenarios and comparing recordings for close to 2 months. This was in April & May.

OK as the thread starter, lets move on and if you don't want to play, fine, but let's not full the thread with babble of whether it's worth your time or effort.
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#139 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 09:34 PM

So with what I've seen with the two difference Sony AVRs and the HR24, along with reading what others are having problems with.

Stuart Sweet had an idea that sparked a thought.

Could the encoders be programing to keep sending the DD5.1 signal even during the glitch times instead of just blanking?

I've seen glitches that I couldn't hear and it seems from reading here that some of these other AVRs are cycling on some of these extremely short glitches, thus causing the viewer to lose 1 to 2 sec of sound that wasn't that long of a glitch in the feed. If the feed could keep these locked onto the DD5.1, so the AVRs didn't cycle, it seems a fair amount of the dropouts might be reduced. Some dropouts don't seem to be real [in the feed but merely a loss of the Dolby bits] and others are longer but seem to be less than a second [to my ears on those I heard] so if the AVR didn't have to cycle then these would only be small dropouts.
While not perfect, it might [if it can be done] go a long way to improve the listener's experience.

Just a wild thought that came to mind and have no idea if it would work.
A.K.A VOS

#140 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 09:50 PM

Thanks for the credit, VOS. Unfortunately I had to clean up a few more off topic posts. Please, let's keep this thread productive. If the overwhelming feeling is that we can't go a day without venting, I'll open a thread for you to complain but I'd much rather you expenses your energy documenting the issue.
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#141 OFFLINE   john18

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 10:18 PM

Could the encoders be programing to keep sending the DD5.1 signal even during the glitch times instead of just blanking?

I've seen glitches that I couldn't hear and it seems from reading here that some of these other AVRs are cycling on some of these extremely short glitches, thus causing the viewer to lose 1 to 2 sec of sound that wasn't that long of a glitch in the feed. If the feed could keep these locked onto the DD5.1, so the AVRs didn't cycle, it seems a fair amount of the dropouts might be reduced. Some dropouts don't seem to be real [in the feed but merely a loss of the Dolby bits] and others are longer but seem to be less than a second [to my ears on those I heard] so if the AVR didn't have to cycle then these would only be small dropouts.


VOS, you (and Stuart) may be onto something. When I turn my AVR on, or switch to, my AVR takes 1-3 second longer to come on than it does using other audio source materials. Since my dropouts while watching D* recorded material is 2-4 seconds, the differing one second may be that glitches. Also, the glitch could be one second, but with the AVR recovery/recycle time it might explain why I complain of 2-4 second gaps.

#142 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 10:33 PM

Please, let's keep this thread productive.


Though somewhat off-topic due to the differences in problems, I've experienced some interesting audio issues on a couple of "local" channels after LIL was launched in my DMA Wednesday. Those issues (along with other non-audio related issues) were reported HERE and HERE.

Basically, two of the HD channels included in the LIL channels have audio problems. WABW (GPB/PBS 14) has absolutely no audio except for occasional blips. WCWJ (the Jacksonville, FL CW affiliate imported into our DMA) has the same issue, but only when HD programming is airing, as SD programming plays fine. This issue is with both the unit hooked up to an AVR and when connected via composite to a SDTV.

What does this have to do with the price of Coffee in China?! Well, I was reading this post:

I've seen glitches that I couldn't hear and it seems from reading here that some of these other AVRs are cycling on some of these extremely short glitches, thus causing the viewer to lose 1 to 2 sec of sound that wasn't that long of a glitch in the feed.


... and I realized that the issues with these local channels are essentially the opposite of what we experience with the national channels.

With my SDTV hooked up via composite, you just notice that PBS has no audio (essentially), but when I viewed the channel with the HDTV/AVR, I realized the similarities in the issues. With the national channels, audio will be just fine... and every now and then, the audio will cut out and the AVR will display this momentary drop in audio. With the "local" channel(s), audio will be missing, and every now and then, "audio" will appear, and the AVR will display this momentary "blip" of audio. With The CW, it's different in that the audio is consistently cutting in and out (whereas PBS stays silent more often not), and in the fact that it only happens when The CW is showing network (HD) programming.

Again, I realize this is a "little" off-topic, and may have little to do with the issues in which this thread is intended to address, but I found the similarities... or differences, depending on how you want to look at it interesting. Others may disagree...

~Alan

#143 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 11:40 PM

^ maybe indirectly, but close enough to be a valid post for this topic, IMO.
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#144 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 12:43 AM

Since Royal Pains on USA was one several watch here's what I had tonight:
First came @ 18 min
Next @ 35 mins but I couldn't hear it and only saw the AVR cycle and replayed it three times to make sure.
Then @ 42, 49, & 57.
Most I did hear but if a second is "one thousand" long, these were "on..." long.
A.K.A VOS

#145 OFFLINE   mickcris

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 05:17 AM

Comedy Central HD - 8/5/10 - 9PM Central - Futurama - Dropouts at 0:06 and 0:24

#146 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 06:03 AM

So with what I've seen with the two difference Sony AVRs and the HR24, along with reading what others are having problems with.

Stuart Sweet had an idea that sparked a thought.

Could the encoders be programing to keep sending the DD5.1 signal even during the glitch times instead of just blanking?

I've seen glitches that I couldn't hear and it seems from reading here that some of these other AVRs are cycling on some of these extremely short glitches, thus causing the viewer to lose 1 to 2 sec of sound that wasn't that long of a glitch in the feed. If the feed could keep these locked onto the DD5.1, so the AVRs didn't cycle, it seems a fair amount of the dropouts might be reduced. Some dropouts don't seem to be real [in the feed but merely a loss of the Dolby bits] and others are longer but seem to be less than a second [to my ears on those I heard] so if the AVR didn't have to cycle then these would only be small dropouts.
While not perfect, it might [if it can be done] go a long way to improve the listener's experience.

Just a wild thought that came to mind and have no idea if it would work.


VOS, you (and Stuart) may be onto something. When I turn my AVR on, or switch to, my AVR takes 1-3 second longer to come on than it does using other audio source materials. Since my dropouts while watching D* recorded material is 2-4 seconds, the differing one second may be that glitches. Also, the glitch could be one second, but with the AVR recovery/recycle time it might explain why I complain of 2-4 second gaps.


I tried the Onkyo TX-SR806 along with the Yamaha RX-V465 before settling on the Yamaha. The main reason, besides price :lol:, was the drop out "clicks." The Yamaha would blip for a quick half second, but the Onkyo would need like 3 or 4 seconds to recover on the exact same drop.

IMO, this shows how some folks might really be affected to a larger & more frustrating degree depending on their AVR.
If you stop responding to them or put them on ignore, then eventually they'll go away.

#147 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 11:42 AM

I tried the Onkyo TX-SR806 along with the Yamaha RX-V465 before settling on the Yamaha. The main reason, besides price :lol:, was the drop out "clicks." The Yamaha would blip for a quick half second, but the Onkyo would need like 3 or 4 seconds to recover on the exact same drop.

IMO, this shows how some folks might really be affected to a larger & more frustrating degree depending on their AVR.


It might also explain why I (and I'm sure others) have written off people's complaints about the problem as being too "dramatic". I find the audio dropouts to be annoying for sure, but I've rarely had it dampen my enjoyment of a program.

BTW, the "clicks" on my old Onkyo used to bug me. So glad I don't have them anymore with the Pioneer! :)

~Alan<~~~~~~~~Who is glad to see his PBS station's audio working...

Edited by Alan Gordon, 06 August 2010 - 11:51 AM.


#148 OFFLINE   bjamin82

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 11:57 AM

Last night, the wife was watching BravoHD, The Real House Wives of DC... the drop outs were so bad, it was like watching a silent film.

Seriously, the attention and the time to resolution is Horrible with this issue. D* and everyone else who is "in the know" can keep saying they are working on it... but honestly, they are going to loose my family as a customer, we all spend so much money on equipment and you can't even enjoy it. What the point of being the HD leader when you can't hear the content in Surround Sound in an enjoyable way. Poor Form!

#149 OFFLINE   Die Hard

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 12:20 PM

Since Royal Pains on USA was one several watch here's what I had tonight:
First came @ 18 min
Next @ 35 mins but I couldn't hear it and only saw the AVR cycle and replayed it three times to make sure.
Then @ 42, 49, & 57.
Most I did hear but if a second is "one thousand" long, these were "on..." long.


VOS

I started watching Royal Pains on USAHD last night about 9:30 cst last night.
Basically, I got the same drops as you.
I got a drop at 35 min, 42 min, 49 min, and some pixelation but no audio drop at 54 min.
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Edited by Die Hard, 06 August 2010 - 02:47 PM.


#150 OFFLINE   swans

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 12:28 PM

Thanks for the credit, VOS. Unfortunately I had to clean up a few more off topic posts. Please, let's keep this thread productive. If the overwhelming feeling is that we can't go a day without venting, I'll open a thread for you to complain but I'd much rather you expenses your energy documenting the issue.


Stuart,
As a complainer, all I really want to know is that DirecTV views this as a legitimate problem and someone is working to correct it. I believe that the delivery of DD5.1 via MPEG4 is the issue. Granted it looks to be an encoding problem, but the end result is that my enjoyment of this enhanced audio is degraded due to this problem. I am obviously not alone.

I would like to say that DirecTV has done a very good job of delivering their HD video via MPEG4 and MRV. I am truly amazed some times at the quality of the picture. If they can handle the video, certainly they should be able to clean up the audio.

Thanks!:)




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