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Guest Message by DevFuse

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On which channels do you have audio dropouts?


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928 replies to this topic

#176 OFFLINE   1948GG

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 05:45 PM

I'm not trying to diminish the problem, just to suggest maybe not all the HD channels are doing this all the time.


I've kinda watched this thread since you started it, but even though it's baseball season, and the number and amount of non-baseball channels that impede upon the 99.9% of time that any game is on (okay, there IS time before 7pm EST in my daily schedule, but it's sure much nicer being on the west coast than the east if you don't want to doze off in the easy chair on those west coast games!!!)....

BUT, dropouts occur on every channel, every minute/hour, every game, on all the systems I own.

HR20-700 - through Slimline5 w/WB616 multiswitch,
TOSLINK to Yamaha RX-V3000

H20-100 - through Slimline5 to SWM8, same audio path as HR20-700
(both top units in 'home theater'), may get replaced by
HR24 at some future date (!)

HR20-100 - same route as H20-100, but HDMI to Samsung HDTV
(no surround sound processor, in bedroom)

HR20-100 - 'portable' Slimline5, direct cable to HR, to Samsung HDTV
HDMI through Panasonic amp
(this system in 5th wheel trailer, only occasional use)

If you listen closely, and especially with live baseball, you'll get 'micro-dropouts' even on the HR20-100 direct HDMI to the HDTV set. I'm sure that most folks would not notice it, but I do. Those 'micro' happenings kick both my large (yes, old) Yamaha (I'm taking a collection to get something with TrueHD/DTS-HD-MA!) as well as the newer little Panasonic surround amp in the trailer to 'skip'.

Right now, I'm watching the TB Rays game on SunSports, who do not have Dolby Digital turned on, and so its flat stereo. Still dropouts. Maybe not as many as, say, NESN or YES, but they're there. Consistently.

It's a system-wide problem. And since it occurs even on those channels that are NOT Dolby Digital, it's something that all channels are routed through, and that includes non-HD and non-Dolby types.

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#177 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 06:38 PM

If you listen closely, and especially with live baseball, you'll get 'micro-dropouts' even on the HR20-100 direct HDMI to the HDTV set. I'm sure that most folks would not notice it, but I do.

I respect and believe you and that you're getting/hearing these, and only wanted to suggest my ears aren't that bad either and I do tend to notice even the shortest ones, but for most of the channels I've been watching the last few/several days, they simply haven't been there, but then I'm also not watching baseball and remote sports feeds have been some of the worst for these.
A.K.A VOS

#178 OFFLINE   1948GG

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 07:14 PM

I think that why it's more noticeable on the sports/baseball feeds, is the constant/near-constant background crowd noise. That makes the dropouts, large and small, VERY noticeable, next to, say, network drama's where the background music may be nowhere near as constant.

But you do perhaps have a point on the fact that the games are 'remote', and if so, then (and I'm going to get 'technical' here), since everything in HD is digital (and in fact the SD-Audio probably is), we are probably seeing a 'jitter' problem with the feeds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jitter

Jitter is accumulative. It's VERY difficult to impossible to 'clean up' or remove (read: expensive circuitry). It can be minimized, but only through careful engineering of the equipment and systems.

In my early years, I spent a month on an early digital microwave system (circa 1974) trying to get the digital carrier to 'settle down'. All the testing showed that each RF repeater and associated digital re-combiner was operating well within spec, yet when hooked up in tandem, would fall fall on it's face.

Turned out that the test equipment simply, at the time, wasn't up to the task of identifying (and conversely, allowing good alignment) of those repeater circuits. I bashed together some ideas to improve the sensitivity of that test gear, and managed to get it to give me some idea of what was going on, and more accurately align the system. (Look up 'regenerative repeaters')

More so than even the manufacturers rep or the factory the equipment had come out of could do.

It's this kind of experience, repeated more times I care to mention, that tells me right off the bat that unless and until DirecTV gets some independent (not DirecTV or a manufacturers rep) person in there, with no axe to grind one way or the other, it's pretty much shooting in the dark.

There's always the possibility they'll 'trip' across where the problem lies, but......

#179 OFFLINE   amanz

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 07:26 PM

Audio dropouts occur on HD channels broadcasting DD5.1 about 3x-4x an hour, sometimes more, occasionally less. Dropouts last 0.5 sec to 1 sec duration, about 15-20 mins apart. Sometimes spaced closer, rarely farther apart.

Dropouts don't bother my spouse or kids, but annoy me as I'm much more anal about the quality of what I watch and hear. DirecTV video quality is superb. Too bad DD5.1 isn't up to the same standards. Any ETA from D*TV on when this problem will be resolved?

Worst offenders channel list:
SyFy - several dropouts during Eureka last Fri night
History Channel
TravelHD
BioHD
Sci Channel
Animal Planet (probably worst of worst)

Equipment list:
- HR21-700 DVR connected to Onkyo TX-SR876 A/V receiver via HDMI
- Sharp LC-52D64U connected to Onkyo via HDMI as well.
HD channels not broadcasting in DD5.1 are converted to PIIx Movie surround mode by the Onkyo w/o dropouts. Personally, I'd rather live with the dropouts and the superior audio effects of DD5.1, rather than turn off DD and listen to audio via PIIx Movie mode. Dolby PIIx mode just isn't the same. Has anyone else played with other surround modes such as Neo or THX? How do they compare to PIIx or DD5.1. Haven't experimented myself yet.

#180 OFFLINE   john18

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 09:29 PM

I went through three episodes of Whale Wars on Animal Planet and I had multiple drops (5-10) in each one hour episode.

#181 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 07:54 AM

Warehouse 13 SYFY
White collar USA
A.K.A VOS

#182 OFFLINE   DarinC

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 10:02 AM

I'm not much help, because as strange as it seems, I really don't watch that much TV (and much of what I do watch is broadcast TV, which I don't typically watch via DirecTV). But I did watch some Science Channel HD last night, and noticed them. Not NEARLY as bad as they were like a year ago. These were separated by minutes, rather than seconds.
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#183 OFFLINE   hasan

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 03:52 PM

Recordings (not live):

Two most recent episodes on USA network of the following:

White Collar
NCIS re-runs
Covert Affairs
Burn Notice
Royal Pains

2 to 4 per hour, very predictable. Never less than 2, typically up to 4 per hour on every one of these programs. Duration: a couple words or so.

On the following TNT programs:

Glades
Memphis Beat
The Closer

No dropouts during all 3 episodes.

Lie to Me: Fox Network

1 episode, no dropouts noticed.

Science Channel:

3 Episodes of Zahi Hawass' Chasing Mummies, No dropouts at all.


All cases used the following equipment:

HR20-700 > HDMI > Onkyo SR605 > HDMI > Samsung 60" LED/LCD

I'm reporting on the dropouts only for the AVR. I don't listen to the TV speakers.
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#184 OFFLINE   recorder

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 05:22 PM

I have absolutely zero dropouts on my HR22-100, but what I do have ,and what D* refuses to acknowledge, is No Center Channel on the 101 network DD5.1 programming.

I've posted this issue in 2 threads, and only received one confirmation of the same issue.

I've got my HR22 audio out going coax to my Denon AVR988.
The input display shows DD5.1, but there is ZERO audio coming out of the center channel. Obviously, this makes following dialog a real challenge.

I have noticed intermittently, on some of the 101 promo's, and a C&W concert that was on in June( don't know who, 'cause I'm not a fan of the genre), the Center Channel does/did transmit.

Had a ticket open 4/29, and followed up for 2 weeks with no resolution.
I gave up the ghost.

All other channels' DD5.1 audio is normal.

#185 OFFLINE   Santana

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 07:44 PM

I will admit I am no audiophile and I have no fancy sound equipment, but I have never noticed any audio dropouts on any channel ever. I have Dolby Digital 5.1 enabled and use a Sony sound-bar with the sub-woofer doubling as the receiver. I have an HR21/200 with HDMI connecting straight to the TV for video, but I am using fiber cables to the receiver for the audio.

#186 OFFLINE   txfeinbergs

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 08:45 PM

Tonight I had 3 audio dropouts at the 15th, 26th, and 27th minute of The Colony on the Discovery channel. I saved this recording because I am going to be using it to compare the length of audio dropouts I have with a Pioneer receiver once I get it. (currently using an Onkyo and each dropout lasts about 3 seconds).

#187 OFFLINE   Die Hard

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 05:55 AM

Last Night

HGTV - Audio dropout associated with a slight picture stutter at 6:19 CST.

TBS - Meet the Browns - audio dropout @ 7:25 CST.

Science Channel - Wonder of the Solar System - audio dropout @ 8:15 CST.

H23/600 - HDMI - Denon 1610 - HDMI - Panasonic Plasma TCP-50S1

#188 OFFLINE   The Fuzz 53

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 07:02 AM

Mets game last night on SNY, channel 639 at 8:07pm eastern time.

#189 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 07:14 AM

Noticed some last night, watching Covert Affairs (OAD 8/3) and Closer on USA and TNT respectively. 3-4 during each show, about .5 to 1 second in duration.

HR24-500 connected optical to a Yamaha RX-V2600 receiver. DD "on".

Edited by Steve, 12 August 2010 - 09:13 AM.

/steve

#190 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 07:51 AM

Noticed some last night, watching Covert Affairs and Closer on USA and TNT respectively. 3-4 during each show, about .5 to 1 second in duration.

HR24-500 connected optical to a Yamaha RX-V2600 receiver. DD "on".

Caught two in Covert Affairs, @ the 2 min & 57 min marks.
Memphis Beat, TNT, had only one.
A.K.A VOS

#191 OFFLINE   FrozenAsset

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 08:49 AM

Had them last night on HD rental of Bounty Hunter.
LIVINGROOM: DirecTV HR24-500
Panasonic
Viera TH-50PZ800U<>Onkyo TX-SR805
Klipsch RF-35, RC-52, RS-3, RPW-10
Sony PS3<>Dual APC SUA1500
Studio Tech U-22T<>SL5-SWM & Slimline AU9

MASTER: DirecTV HR23-700<>Roku 2 XS<>Panasonic TC-L32X2
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DirecTV H24-100<>Panasonic TC-L32X2
NETWORK:
D-LINK DGS-1024D<>Buffalo WZR-HP-G300NH

#192 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 09:12 AM

Caught two in Covert Affairs, @ the 2 min & 57 min marks [...]

Your post made me realize the episode I reported above was last week's Covert Affairs. Haven't watched this week's yet. Closer was this week's.
/steve

#193 OFFLINE   nollchr

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 09:30 AM

The newer Denon was also connected via HDMI, not optical.

#194 OFFLINE   1948GG

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 05:40 PM

DROPOUTS ON VOD = INEXCUSABLE

Most of the non-pay VOD available isn't Dolby, but flat stereo; I've never heard any dropouts on it.

But today, I 'got around' to watching a VOD Dolby movie that was filled with dropouts every couple of minutes, throughout the entire 2hr film.

Absolutely inexcusable. Obviously ZERO quality control. Although the transfer mechanism (or actually whatever d/l system, both at their head-end and my HR) could be at fault, although that gets us into another area (that's even worse), programmers.

The film is 'Lifeforce', a Tobe Hooper classic, done between 'Poltergeist' and 'Invaders From Mars' (remake).

#195 OFFLINE   TBlazer07

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 07:11 PM

Big Brother tonight, which is SD on NY Channel 2 had a number of dropouts.

#196 OFFLINE   RogueWing16

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 07:19 PM

CBS

Numerous dropouts during the Ravens-Panthers game. Maybe 1 second long and occurring nearly every 3 minutes.

Watching on a R10 receiver. Very annoying. This is the first time I've noticed this.:(

#197 OFFLINE   techntrek

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 11:12 AM

Warehouse 13 SYFY
White collar USA


+1 on Warehouse 13, every episode lately.
How do I enable DLB for my life?

#198 OFFLINE   amanz

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 01:46 PM

Spoke to D*TV tech support this afternoon on another issue, and casually mentioned to rep that I've experienced audio dropouts on HD shows with DD5.1 on. Told him I had a service tech over a few weeks ago who downloaded a firmware upgrade, tightened my dish alignment, but had zero affect on the fixing the audio dropouts. Also said I learned via DBSTalk that the problem resides with audio codec compatibility with MPEG4 broadcasts.

Tech rep said he wished I had spoken to him. He acknowledged audio dropouts are indeed a problem and DirecTV is working on correcting them. He said the audio problems began when D*TV implemented a fix for audio level problems between shows and commercials. Seems fixing one problem inadvertently caused another. He also said he's experienced the same audio problems with his home theater setup in South Dakota. So he shares out pain.

He felt a permanent fix would be ready in a month or so, possibly sooner. I'm sure all of us on this thread would certainly hope so.

#199 OFFLINE   hasan

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 06:21 PM

Spoke to D*TV tech support this afternoon on another issue, and casually mentioned to rep that I've experienced audio dropouts on HD shows with DD5.1 on. Told him I had a service tech over a few weeks ago who downloaded a firmware upgrade, tightened my dish alignment, but had zero affect on the fixing the audio dropouts. Also said I learned via DBSTalk that the problem resides with audio codec compatibility with MPEG4 broadcasts.

Tech rep said he wished I had spoken to him. He acknowledged audio dropouts are indeed a problem and DirecTV is working on correcting them. He said the audio problems began when D*TV implemented a fix for audio level problems between shows and commercials. Seems fixing one problem inadvertently caused another. He also said he's experienced the same audio problems with his home theater setup in South Dakota. So he shares out pain.

He felt a permanent fix would be ready in a month or so, possibly sooner. I'm sure all of us on this thread would certainly hope so.


I don't think the tech got it right. The drop-outs (non-HR24) involve the encoders (MPEG-4), which have nothing to do with the volume adjustments.
It was an interesting guess on his part, but far off the mark.

The part he had right is that D* knows about it an is working on a fix. The problem is a difficult one with no easy fix. I am confident that it will eventually get fixed, but it isn't going to be "real soon now". Try not to get your hopes up, and if it bothers you a lot, turn Dolby Digital off (in your sat box), which seems to help a lot of people hide the problem.

I like DD so much, I leave mine on, and tolerate the drop-outs (at least for now).
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#200 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 08:16 PM

VOS, how much longer do you need to post information? Hasn't what has been posted so far giving DirecTV any leads on the problem?

See post My Setup for configuration info.





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