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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Should DirecTv Lessen the EDID Restrictions for Watching 3D Content?


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232 replies to this topic

Poll: Should DirecTv Lessen the EDID Restrictions for Watching 3D Content? (143 member(s) have cast votes)

Should DirecTv Lessen the EDID Restrictions for Watching 3D Content?

  1. Yes, DirecTv should lessen the EDID restrictions for watching 3D content. (115 votes [80.42%])

    Percentage of vote: 80.42%

  2. No, the EDID restrictions imposed by DirecTv for watching 3D content is good. (28 votes [19.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.58%

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#101 OFFLINE   jacmyoung

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 07:38 AM

...If I were DirecTV I would be leary of deviating from my planned course, particularly when there is no way of knowing what other methods may come along to bring these older TV's into compliance with the current standards.


In a nutshell, since the 3D market is so small, DirecTV, a pioneer in providing 3D content, should further limit the 3D base in the hope that it will have a better chance for success:)

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#102 OFFLINE   GregLee

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 07:43 AM

There should be a dialog box of some sort that pops up when a display is believed to be incompatible. The user should be able to acknowledge that and attempt to display the 3D content if they wish.

As is done when you want to record a 3d program but have no 3d TV connected. You're warned that it may not be possible to watch it on your TV, then asked if you want to record it anyway. Before I got my 3d TV, I recorded several programs that way.
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#103 OFFLINE   GregLee

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 08:07 AM

There exists a group of people who invested in 3D televisions that are older and do not use the format that DirecTV has decided to pursue. Understandable these people are not happy with this.

Some brand new Mitsubishi DLPs are also problematic, including some models on DirecTV's supported list.

Adding other equipment to the process, such as AVR's appears to interfere with the solution they have found.

Adding an AVR, even in some cases a 2010 model AVR, can prevent watching DirecTV 3D on any 3D TV, not just certain older models, due to DirecTV blocking the video.

Based just on the poll for this thread we are talking about a group of people that is statistically small.

It's not correct to assume that only those affected by DirecTV's blocking 3D signals when some of their customers need to see them would vote to support those customers with a problem. You don't have a problem, so you don't care, I understand -- but not everyone thinks that way. I happen to have a new 2010 AVR that seems so far to be transparent to DirecTV's 3D checking. But I still think DirecTV should accommodate those customers who are having a problem.
Greg

#104 OFFLINE   DogLover

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 08:32 AM

There should be a dialog box of some sort that pops up when a display is believed to be incompatible. The user should be able to acknowledge that and attempt to display the 3D content if they wish.


I think I have to agree with this opinion. I've been following this discussion trying to understand the issues. I wanted to form an informed opinion.

I don't have a 3D TV, nor am I likely to buy one for many years. We replaced our main TV within the last few months, and specifically chose not to pay more for a 3D TV. (My personal opinion is that 3D is a fad that will fade, but I've been wrong before and will be again.)

Having seen many post over the years with people having HDMI handshaking and 1080p/24 issues, I have to say that I don't think you can count on AVR or TV manufacturers to follow any set of standards consistantly.

They want a seamless process for their customers. They want it to be easy. However, because they have to coordinate/communicate with other company's units, they just can't control the whole process. While that means more work and support for DIRECTV, I think that is the only customer friendly option they have is to allow a (nonsupported) work around for customers to force play the 3D programs.
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#105 OFFLINE   Doug Brott

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 08:33 AM

Doug or others with pull,

Would DirecTv be receptive to something like this?


I don't even have to ask to know the answer to this question ..
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#106 OFFLINE   Doug Brott

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 08:43 AM

raclevel may be new, but there was some good stuff in his comments ..

But the "easy" fix .. (1) not really so easy in the nuts and bolts, BTW and (2) seems the point DIRECTV is trying to make is reliability .. bypassing the required checks does nothing to improve the reliability. Perhaps if you think on the micro level, but from a macro perspective (you know, in the grand scheme of things), following the standards are where it is. Seems devices simply need to properly support HDMI 1.4a and that that is not exactly the case for some of thes AVRs.

Good morning raclevel, and welcome to DBSTalk. :welcome_s

Although you say you are a bit confused, I think you have the discussion well in hand. :)

However, Doug Brott suspects the problem is with VSI and EDID. He explains in this post...

http://www.dbstalk.c...385#post2549385

I’m not sure anyone of us knows for sure what the issue is but it is an interesting discussion. ;)

Mike


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#107 OFFLINE   Doug Brott

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 08:44 AM

In a nutshell, since the 3D market is so small, DirecTV, a pioneer in providing 3D content, should further limit the 3D base in the hope that it will have a better chance for success:)


So NOT following standards is the right choice?
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#108 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 08:53 AM

But the "easy" fix .. (1) not really so easy in the nuts and bolts, BTW and (2) seems the point DIRECTV is trying to make is reliability .. bypassing the required checks does nothing to improve the reliability. Perhaps if you think on the micro level, but from a macro perspective (you know, in the grand scheme of things), following the standards are where it is. Seems devices simply need to properly support HDMI 1.4a and that that is not exactly the case for some of thes AVRs.


But here's what I don't understand from reading this thread and maybe I'm missing something.

Customer A has a 3DTV, D*, 3D BD, and an AVR.

D* to 3DTV works
3D BD to 3DTV works
3D BD to AVR to 3DTV works
D* to AVR to 3DTV doesn't work.


Why? It's not an issue with the display. It doesn't seem to be an issue with the AVR and it doesn't seem to be an issue with the BD player. The only issue is with the D* receiver.

If this is some standard, then why isn't anybody else using it?

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#109 OFFLINE   jacmyoung

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 09:01 AM

So NOT following standards is the right choice?


In a way, yes. The concept is sometimes called "backward compatibility". A standard practice when a new tech is introduced.

Imagine when the HDMI standard was first introduced, all the HDTVs with component-only connections were made useless for HD content, what would that have done to HDTV?

#110 OFFLINE   Doug Brott

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 09:05 AM

If this is some standard, then why isn't anybody else using it?


That's the million dollar question ..

Is DIRECTV wrong for following the standard or are the other vendors wrong for NOT following the standard?
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#111 OFFLINE   DogLover

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 09:07 AM

So NOT following standards is the right choice?


Some time the technically "wrong" choice is the best business choice.

Do the standards really say that "if you can't determine that a device is 3D capable, you can't try to send them a 3D signal and let the view decide if it is correct"?
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#112 OFFLINE   GregLee

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 09:08 AM

Seems devices simply need to properly support HDMI 1.4a and that that is not exactly the case for some of thes AVRs.

There may be some ambiguity in this discussion about whether the problem AVRs are those like the 2010 Onkyos which purport to support HDMI 1.4a, but apparently don't "exactly" "properly" support it, or whether they are pre-2010 models which don't even purport to support HDMI 1.4a. HDMI 1.4a wasn't adopted until this year. Not everyone who didn't happen to buy a new AVR in the last few months is willing to accommodate DirecTV's ideas about standards by replacing their otherwise capable AVRs, which in some cases were quite expensive. (Luckily, I did need a new AVR at just the time when AVRs supporting HDMI 1.4a first became available, and my needs for amplification are modest.)
Greg

#113 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 09:13 AM

This has little to nothing to do with 1.4a. DirecTV simply made a choice and made the issue more complicated than necessary.
DTV = Digital Television

#114 OFFLINE   GregLee

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 09:22 AM

This has little to nothing to do with 1.4a. DirecTV simply made a choice and made the issue more complicated than necessary.

Support of the side-by-side 3D format DirecTV uses was made mandatory for 3D display devices by HDMI 1.4a, and detecting whether a display device does support that format is what is being discussed in this thread. So it has everything to do with 1.4a.
Greg

#115 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 09:29 AM

I think it's important to understand that 3D is only a portion of HDMI 1.4a.

On the other hand, something can be HDMI 1.4a and not implement some or all of the 3D portions of the spec.

Is something is 1.4a and is 3D, doesn’t mean it’s done completely...I’m just sayin’ :grin:

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Since it costs 2.4¢ to produce a penny, my 2¢ worth is really 4.8¢ worth.  That 4.8¢ is my own and not the 4.8¢ of DIRECTV, Dish, or anyone else for that matter.


#116 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 09:33 AM

Support of the side-by-side 3D format DirecTV uses was made mandatory for 3D display devices by HDMI 1.4a, and detecting whether a display device does support that format is what is being discussed in this thread. So it has everything to do with 1.4a.


...no...you just don't get it. I give up. This is a conversation which should be taking place at AVS rather than here. That much is painfully obvious.
DTV = Digital Television

#117 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 09:47 AM

Support of the side-by-side 3D format DirecTV uses was made mandatory for 3D display devices by HDMI 1.4a, and detecting whether a display device does support that format is what is being discussed in this thread. So it has everything to do with 1.4a.


Incorrect, that doesn't seem to be what the discussion is about at all.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
Directv customer since 2000

#118 OFFLINE   jacmyoung

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 09:49 AM

...no...you just don't get it. I give up. This is a conversation which should be taking place at AVS rather than here. That much is painfully obvious.


If the discussion is about 3D the technology, then maybe, but if the discussion is about one of the DirecTV's policies, I think this is a better place to be.

#119 OFFLINE   GregLee

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 09:51 AM

On the other hand, something can be HDMI 1.4a and not implement some or all of the 3D portions of the spec.

I'm no expert on the details of HDMI, but my information is that 3D display and repeater devices (AVRs) conforming to 1.4a must support the 3D side-by-side format used by DirecTV. This was made a mandatory part of the spec for the first time by HDMI 1.4a. Do you know different?
Greg

#120 OFFLINE   geaux tigers

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 09:53 AM

I don't even have to ask to know the answer to this question ..


Don't keep us in suspense.




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