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D* removing LD from AM-21 lineups


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41 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   texasbrit

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 04:35 PM

We reported several months ago that DirecTV was removing some of the low power stations from the HR20/AM21 OTA data. It was apparently because the guide was getting too large and this was affecting performance on channel tuning. I know that after complaints DirecTV did restore some of the low-power stations, particularly where they were carrying network programming.

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#27 OFFLINE   Kansas Zephyr

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 05:41 PM

It was apparently because the guide was getting too large and this was affecting performance on channel tuning. I know that after complaints DirecTV did restore some of the low-power stations, particularly where they were carrying network programming.

Good to know that D* is apparently showing some flexibility and will include LDs of the "Big 5" (ABC/CBS/Fox/NBC/PBS).

Is there a preferred email address to request specific LDs to the OTA guide?

KAKE (ABC) currently operates 4 LP & TX stations, within the Wichita/Hutchinson market, that (they keep promising) one day will all be flash-cut to digital...and want to make sure they are added after the switch.

FWIW...even if they don't want to provide guide data...D* should allow ALL available digital OTA signals to be usable. I have no problem using a manual time/channel selection to DVR those without guide data.

Edited by Kansas Zephyr, 05 August 2010 - 05:46 PM.

5 LNB Slimline & SWM-16
SWM1 2 HR20s & HR21 via SWS-4 "green label" 4-way splitter w/power pass one leg for PI - SWM2 2 HR20s & HR21 after SWS-4 "green label" 4-way splitter
2 HR20-700 Wireless network for DoD
HR20-700 eSATA Vantec NexStar CX w/ 2TB WD20EVDS
HR21-100/AM21 Wireless network for DoD
HR21-100/AM21
With diplexed OTA via an "out" on one SWS-4 4-way splitter, using a Winegard YA 1713 - Channel Master 4228 - Channel Master 7777 in the attic.
Yes, my market has HD LiLs...and I'm still not giving up OTA! No rain-fade, and all sub-channels 24/7/365.
Also, with diplexed Cox Internet on one leg, downstream of a SWS-4 4-way splitter, using a SWS-2 2-way splitter, as a combiner.
R10 via SWM-16 Legacy 1
In boxes HR10-250, HDVR2 & (2) D10-300

#28 OFFLINE   TheRatPatrol

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 07:20 PM

LD=Low Power Digital - same thing as LP=Low Power (analog) stations.

And, LD does NOT always equal SD - there ARE actually HD-LD stations out there... ;) ;)

Shouldn't it be LPD? ;)

#29 OFFLINE   bidger

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 05:52 AM

The H20 used to run an OTA scan like your TV did to find EVERY OTA signal in your area.


I've never owned a H20, but the HR20 prompts me for the zip code(s) of my primary/secondary markets. No other device I have an antenna to prompts me for that info when I do initial setup. That step suggests to me that the info is used to check a database. Hard to understand why they chose a different approach for that series receiver.

Ceton 6 tuner eth, Cisco Tuning Adapter 1520, TWC Digital Explorer Pak and 50/5 Internet, TiVo HD (upgraded to 500 GB) for OTA,TC-P50U50, SONY NSZ-GT1 BD player and Google TV box, Yamaha RX-V373 A/V receiver, Squeezebox Duet music streaming device, Xbox 360 

 

 


#30 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 06:07 AM

I've never owned a H20, but the HR20 prompts me for the zip code(s) of my primary/secondary markets. No other device I have an antenna to prompts me for that info when I do initial setup. That step suggests to me that the info is used to check a database. Hard to understand why they chose a different approach for that series receiver.


The flip side of that process is they provide access to the guide data integrated in with the sat channels....Something you dont get with your tv..

#31 OFFLINE   hasan

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 07:25 AM

I've never owned a H20, but the HR20 prompts me for the zip code(s) of my primary/secondary markets. No other device I have an antenna to prompts me for that info when I do initial setup. That step suggests to me that the info is used to check a database. Hard to understand why they chose a different approach for that series receiver.


None of us have ever understood this. The first manuals that came out for the HR20-700 when OTA was added said they would scan. They didn't, they don't, and we have been repeatedly told, they never will.

The entire operation of the DVR is Guide-Centric. If the Guide is wrong, your recordings are fubar. If the OTA channel data (from Tribune Media) is wrong, you can't tune the channel. I still have one or two channels that are messed up, and have been since last June. They aren't important to me, so I haven't bothered to contact the station engineer in charge (they can contact Tribune and get things straightened out...and are the only ones that helped me solve prior problems...D* was useless).

So, if you are having a problem, call the TV station and talk to the engineer in charge, or....zap2it (or some such) has a web site that others have used successfully to get the channel information fixed. I haven't used it, so I don't have the particulars.

Design-wise, the decision was made long ago and isn't going to change.
...hasan, N0AN

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#32 OFFLINE   bidger

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 07:53 AM

Yeah, I went through a lot just recently to add three PBS channels to my lineup. I asked about it on the Local HD Info thread @ AVSForum and a member there, familiar to those here as well, jdspencer, suggested a workaround. I had to assign Binghamton, NY as my primary market and Elmira as my secondary. That turned the trick the three missing channels were now in the list. I have to say that it makes no sense though. For years prior, we had been lacking a CBS affiliate, which broadcasts out of Binghamton, while folks there couldn't get an NBC affiliate, which originated here. It's ~ 55 miles between the cities and there are lots of hills between us. For that reason, it never occurred to me to assign a location that's well beyond my range as my primary market. On the flipside, I've found that devices like the TV, which doesn't seem to go to a database for programming info, relying instead on data in the stream, can find the PBS stations on a scan, but have no idea what programming is there.

Ceton 6 tuner eth, Cisco Tuning Adapter 1520, TWC Digital Explorer Pak and 50/5 Internet, TiVo HD (upgraded to 500 GB) for OTA,TC-P50U50, SONY NSZ-GT1 BD player and Google TV box, Yamaha RX-V373 A/V receiver, Squeezebox Duet music streaming device, Xbox 360 

 

 


#33 OFFLINE   aa9vi

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 08:31 AM

We reported several months ago that DirecTV was removing some of the low power stations from the HR20/AM21 OTA data. It was apparently because the guide was getting too large and this was affecting performance on channel tuning. I know that after complaints DirecTV did restore some of the low-power stations, particularly where they were carrying network programming.


THAT was the reason? I find that very hard to believe that a few LD channels would have that much of an effect. I never hear of DirecTV trying to fix the fact that when I press 2 on the remote it takes TWO AND A HALF SECONDS to appear on the screen sometimes.

Sounds like bloated, inefficient software to me. Why not tackle the core issue and start working on that? The HR20/HR24s are really slow and make the DirecTV look foolish on software development.

#34 OFFLINE   aa9vi

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 08:33 AM

The flip side of that process is they provide access to the guide data integrated in with the sat channels....Something you dont get with your tv..


yes you do get the guide info in many markets... TV guide data is transmitted over one station in many markets such as WBBM in Chicago.

http://rabbitears.in...p?request=tvgos

Not to mention, the PSIP info from the local channel has the programming out to 2 or 3 hrs, maybe more depending on the station.

Frankly, I would't mind if my LD stations only had info out 2 hrs. No need for 7 day data on those stations... Just put something generic like "regular programming" in days 2-7 in the guide. Seems like a more sensible solution to me.

Edited by aa9vi, 06 August 2010 - 08:40 AM.


#35 OFFLINE   Kansas Zephyr

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 08:43 AM

The flip side of that process is they provide access to the guide data integrated in with the sat channels....Something you dont get with your tv..

My in-laws have Dish, and their box scanned...every channel that it discovered was added, from 3 different markets BTW..and the guide data appeared for most stations. Some of the sub-channels had missing program info.

I'd rather have everything found made available...even if it means missing data for some channels. Rather than the current market database method used by D*.
5 LNB Slimline & SWM-16
SWM1 2 HR20s & HR21 via SWS-4 "green label" 4-way splitter w/power pass one leg for PI - SWM2 2 HR20s & HR21 after SWS-4 "green label" 4-way splitter
2 HR20-700 Wireless network for DoD
HR20-700 eSATA Vantec NexStar CX w/ 2TB WD20EVDS
HR21-100/AM21 Wireless network for DoD
HR21-100/AM21
With diplexed OTA via an "out" on one SWS-4 4-way splitter, using a Winegard YA 1713 - Channel Master 4228 - Channel Master 7777 in the attic.
Yes, my market has HD LiLs...and I'm still not giving up OTA! No rain-fade, and all sub-channels 24/7/365.
Also, with diplexed Cox Internet on one leg, downstream of a SWS-4 4-way splitter, using a SWS-2 2-way splitter, as a combiner.
R10 via SWM-16 Legacy 1
In boxes HR10-250, HDVR2 & (2) D10-300

#36 OFFLINE   ChrisPC

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 02:59 PM

I had a local LD station here taken off my D* guide just a month after they put it on. It had 4 subchannels including RTV.

#37 OFFLINE   Tom Servo

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 04:45 PM

The AM-21 is just becoming a bigger and bigger joke as the days go by, sheesh.

First it only lets you enter in two zip codes (markets) and now this? For a service that got its start providing cable channels to the most remote of customers, D* seem to have no problem telling us rural users to get bent with these shenanigans. We're the ones most likely seeing these LD channels, or stuck between three or more markets. :mad:

#38 OFFLINE   bwaldron

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 09:18 PM

For a service that got its start providing cable channels


But no local channels then ;)

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HR23-700 --> JVC JLC47BC3002 LCD
H24-200 -->
Panasonic TH-50PX60U plasma


#39 OFFLINE   GP245

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 04:49 AM

"The AM-21 is just becoming a bigger and bigger joke as the days go by, sheesh."

Couldn't agree with you more!

My old Sony/DirecTV receiver was able to scan for OTA stations and integrate them into the program guide.

How much more useful it would be if the AM21 were able to scan for stations and not have to rely on a bankrupt third party (Tribune).

Using the same indoor antenna, my Sharp HDTV is much more sensitive than the AM21, being able to pick up more stations and with much greater stability.

I'm very disappointed in the AM21's design and performance.

#40 OFFLINE   Rob77

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 06:16 AM

The addition of channel scanning could easily be added to the AM-21 period. The only reason (like so many other DirecTV engineering projects) is that those guys do not worry about basic operation and dependability. All they are interested in is new high tech toys.

#41 OFFLINE   aa9vi

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 12:51 PM

The AM-21 is just becoming a bigger and bigger joke as the days go by, sheesh.

First it only lets you enter in two zip codes (markets) and now this? For a service that got its start providing cable channels to the most remote of customers, D* seem to have no problem telling us rural users to get bent with these shenanigans. We're the ones most likely seeing these LD channels, or stuck between three or more markets. :mad:


Agreed... 100%. it's us big city folks too that are impacted. Why can't I watch RTV on a local LD station? DirecTV only has so much bandwidth on the satellite frequencies.... YOU'D THINK they'd like to open up the AM21 so people would stop bitching about not being able to receive local channel X or channel Y. They could simply tell them get an AM21 and an antenna... but no, that would make SENSE.

I hope you guys are calling DirecTV...

They still won't admit they are at best novices when it comes to software development. It's like Microsoft and Vista... keep piling up already bloated code which requires a faster processor and more RAM and then push it out as a new release without making things more efficient. Sort of like climbing up a waterslide greased with 10W40. Maybe we should call D*, DirecTVista :)

#42 OFFLINE   hancox

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 05:05 AM

The OTA implementation of this series of receivers has been a design flaw from day 1 (either in omission or in usage, with this Tribune nonsense). Pathetic.

This is one of the reasons I still (unfortunately) pine for a new Tivo - it may have a working, scanning, OTA implementation.




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