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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Worst call ever?


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49 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 08:00 PM

The single reason they should not and cannot change the MLB call, whether we like it or not, is because the decision was made by the umpire. There is nothing in the rules that says anyone but an umpire can call a batter-runner safe or out. That's not the commissioner's job.

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


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#42 OFFLINE   DBSNewbie

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 09:32 PM

No it wouldn't, because the receiver would have then become a runner, and the rules are different for runners compared to receivers.


In my example, the receiver would still be in the "process" of completing his catch. When I said stumbling, I meant falling to the ground over the course of ten yards. For further clarification, imagine the receiver jumping into the air as he catches the ball at the ten yard line and then stumbling over the goal line in exactly the same manner as the play in the OP.

In the case of the play in the OP, the receiver was falling to the ground as he was attempting to complete the process of the catch. He just only "fell" a couple of yards from the moment he made first contact with the football, rather than ten yards while all the while falling to the ground and maintaining full control of the ball.

Common sense would say (as the article a few posts up described) that a catch was indeed made. It's just the ambiguity of the definition of the "process" that screws up the rule.

Edited by DBSNewbie, 19 September 2010 - 09:39 PM.

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#43 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 08:15 AM

In my example, the receiver would still be in the "process" of completing his catch. When I said stumbling, I meant falling to the ground over the course of ten yards. For further clarification, imagine the receiver jumping into the air as he catches the ball at the ten yard line and then stumbling over the goal line in exactly the same manner as the play in the OP.

In the case of the play in the OP, the receiver was falling to the ground as he was attempting to complete the process of the catch. He just only "fell" a couple of yards from the moment he made first contact with the football, rather than ten yards while all the while falling to the ground and maintaining full control of the ball.

Common sense would say (as the article a few posts up described) that a catch was indeed made. It's just the ambiguity of the definition of the "process" that screws up the rule.


Your example was wrong because receiving rules are completely different in the endzone then in the field.
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#44 OFFLINE   DBSNewbie

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 08:43 AM

Your example was wrong because receiving rules are completely different in the endzone then in the field.


What if the receiver were running laterally across the back of the endzone and caught the ball in exactly the same manner as Calvin Johnson did?

Furthermore, let's say that the catch process was initiated at the back of the end zone directly in front of the goal post and ended near the pylon at the back right corner of the end zone (exactly where Calvin Johnson ended up)

That's approximately 25 yards that was covered. If the receiver never bobbles the ball until the ground causes it to be dislodged from his hand while he was getting up, common sense would say he caught the ball. The result of the play, however, if interpreted exactly like the play in the OP, would then be an incomplete pass according to the rules.

The rule needs to be tweaked.

EDIT: I also wanted to add that it was the point of Common Sense vs. The Rule that I was arguing. Yes, the rules are applied differently when a receiver is in the end zone as opposed to in the field. However, I was just trying to show that that in the case of the "process" the rule should be tweaked to allow the referee to make a judgement call to determine whether or not control and possession were demonstrated and the "process" being completed prior to losing the football, regardless of where it happened. (Midfield, Goal Line, End Zone, etc)

Edited by DBSNewbie, 20 September 2010 - 09:14 AM.

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#45 OFFLINE   WhoRu

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 09:49 AM

I think the deeper question here is why my Detroit boys keep getting the old shaft. The touchdown that wasn't a touchdown, the perfect game that wasn't a perfect game, Wings goal called off cause Tommy Holmstrom broke wind on the edge of the crease. And did you see Johnny Damon called out on strikes on a pitch at least a foot outside this year when a walk would have tied the game?

An obvious conspiracy of gigantic proportions.

Hey Tim Bedore, how about moving on from your animal conspiracy theory and taking up this cause?

#46 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 09:52 AM

Your example was wrong because receiving rules are completely different in the endzone then in the field.


No they're not. You're confusing the differene between a runner and a receiver. The rules of a catch are the same whether the catch is made in the end zone or on the field of play. The differences come when a receiver can't complete a catch and when a runner drops the ball. Moreover, a receiver becomes a runner when he completes the catch process and makes a "football act," such as taking steps to advance.

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#47 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 10:11 AM

No they're not. You're confusing the differene between a runner and a receiver. The rules of a catch are the same whether the catch is made in the end zone or on the field of play. The differences come when a receiver can't complete a catch and when a runner drops the ball. Moreover, a receiver becomes a runner when he completes the catch process and makes a "football act," such as taking steps to advance.


That's what I meant, but I was half awake. Thanks LV.
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#48 OFFLINE   DBSNewbie

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 10:23 AM

No they're not. You're confusing the differene between a runner and a receiver. The rules of a catch are the same whether the catch is made in the end zone or on the field of play. The differences come when a receiver can't complete a catch and when a runner drops the ball. Moreover, a receiver becomes a runner when he completes the catch process and makes a "football act," such as taking steps to advance.


That's the problem of the rule as it pertains to the "process"... When does a receiver complete a catch, thus becoming a runner? Or in the case of the OP, when does the receiver complete his process of the catch and only loses the ball as he was merely getting up after the play?

That's the point I was trying to get across several posts ago. I totally agree with you, as far as the rules are concerned and the officials applying the rule in regards to the play in the OP.

I just feel that some kind of tweak needs to be made allowing an official the ability to make a judgement call on the completion of said process.

Edited by DBSNewbie, 20 September 2010 - 10:38 AM.

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#49 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 08:54 PM

That's the problem of the rule as it pertains to the "process"... When does a receiver complete a catch, thus becoming a runner?


Asked and answered. See my post preceding this one.

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#50 OFFLINE   DBSNewbie

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 09:37 PM

Asked and answered. See my post preceding this one.


That's exactly what I mean. When is the precise moment at which the process is completed when he is falling down in an attempt to catch a ball?

Is it two feet in bounds? After a couple of steps? Being down? Etc, etc. If the answer is yes to any of those, then didn't Calvin Johnson "complete" his catch?

Would stumbling after jumping in the air to catch a ball constitute a "football move", whether he stumbles over the course of ten yards or one yard, thus being ruled a completion before the ground eventually causes the ball to be dislodged?

Or would stumbling 25 yards laterally in the endzone be enough time to constitute possession before having the ball hit the ground and coming free?

The rules as it pertains to Calvin Johnson's catch (or non-catch) can be interpreted in a numerous number of ways. But as I said earlier, common sense says that he did catch the ball, which of course would be a judgement call on the part of the official and in my opinion should be integrated into the rule.

Edited by DBSNewbie, 20 September 2010 - 09:44 PM.

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