Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of DBSTalk by signing in or creating an account.
  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members.
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

Longest Cable run?


  • Please log in to reply
138 replies to this topic

#121 OFFLINE   lugnutathome

lugnutathome

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 2,508 posts
  • LocationWoodburn, OR
Joined: Apr 13, 2009

Posted 08 June 2011 - 06:13 AM

Before I added the SWM16 I was running my multiple long runs off a SWM8 using an 8 way splitter. Had an H21-100 off the 191 ft run which worked fine mostly. Occasionally it would lock up and need a reset so I suspect signal was just about at the threshold but for the most part it worked just fine.

The H24 should have a better tuner than the H21 I would think and be better equipped to handle that 200 ft run.

Don "just washed my car and can't do a thing with it" Bolton

Thanks, I believe there may be some slight confusion as the amp my in-laws have on order is the one made by Conversion Technology. I will probably return the amp but I thought I would give it a test run to see what impact if it had on their system. The H24 in the back is probably around a run of 200 feet of RG6. If it passes DECA then that may be useful information for someone down the road. If it cause problems to the DECA system then that is also useful information.

I sincerely hope that the two way splitter being hooked up incorrectly by me is the problem. If it is then I can fix my in-laws problem for them quickly. I agree with you that VOS is very knowledgeable.

P.S. My car has been running rough so I am going to wash it.


What's a dazzling urbanite like you doing in a rustic setting like this?


...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#122 OFFLINE   geaux tigers

geaux tigers

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 550 posts
Joined: Nov 10, 2005

Posted 08 June 2011 - 08:29 AM

Before I added the SWM16 I was running my multiple long runs off a SWM8 using an 8 way splitter. Had an H21-100 off the 191 ft run which worked fine mostly. Occasionally it would lock up and need a reset so I suspect signal was just about at the threshold but for the most part it worked just fine.

The H24 should have a better tuner than the H21 I would think and be better equipped to handle that 200 ft run.

Don "just washed my car and can't do a thing with it" Bolton


Thanks

#123 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,352 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 08 June 2011 - 09:09 AM

The H24 should have a better tuner than the H21 I would think...

I think you'll find that they both use the same chip.
Only the H/HR23 uses a different chip [for wideband tuner].
The specs are -20 dBm to -70 dBm input range.
Some chips will exceed this [the nature of chip manufacturing], so any receiver of the same model can work slightly better than another.
A.K.A VOS

#124 OFFLINE   geaux tigers

geaux tigers

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 550 posts
Joined: Nov 10, 2005

Posted 09 June 2011 - 01:28 PM

I talked to the authorized independent contractor that my in-laws bought their DirecTV equipment from.

He is sending me one green label 4 way SWM DirecTV Splitter, one green label DirecTV SWM 2 way splitter, and a DirecTV Band Stop Filter. I will replace the current 2 way splitter near the DECA and the HR24 with the green label 2 way splitter and make sure it is connected correctly. I will also replace the green label 8 way splitter with the green label 4 way splitter. I will then run the DECA test to make sure all receivers are below 60.

If that does not work I plan on putting the Band Stop Filter on the long run H24 that has problems with maintaining a connection with the Whole Home DVR Service. I will then connect that H24 to the internet / network using Cat 6 and a Powerline Ethernet Adapter. Should the Band Stop Filter be placed on the H24 end or the splitter end?

Finally, Regarding the Conversions Technology Amplifier CT-SLA. I plan on hooking up the amplifier because the run to that H24 is around 200 feet or more. I am going to this out of curiosity and to see what effect if any it has on the H24 that it is connected to. I realize that it should not have any effect on DECA but it may be helpful in providing stability for the long cable run. I always have the option of sending it back if it causes a problem or does not help the long cable run in any way. I will connect the amplifier last after I have corrected the DECA issue.

I do appreciate everyone’s help and I believe I have a good grasp of the problem and potential solutions. If I am heading in the wrong direction then please let me know. Thanks.

Edited by geaux tigers, 09 June 2011 - 01:42 PM.


#125 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,352 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 09 June 2011 - 01:37 PM

"For grins", I'd run the DECA check/test after "only" changing the 2-way splitter.
Changing out the 8-way for the 4-way will boost the SAT levels more than the DECA. The DECA will only change by 3 dB.

In your post above you say 200 yards to the problem location, but I'd guess you meant feet as you'd not have signals off an 8-way 600' away.
A.K.A VOS

#126 OFFLINE   geaux tigers

geaux tigers

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 550 posts
Joined: Nov 10, 2005

Posted 09 June 2011 - 01:43 PM

"For grins", I'd run the DECA check/test after "only" changing the 2-way splitter.
Changing out the 8-way for the 4-way will boost the SAT levels more than the DECA. The DECA will only change by 3 dB.

In your post above you say 200 yards to the problem location, but I'd guess you meant feet as you'd not have signals off an 8-way 600' away.


I did mean feet rather than yards. I edited my original post. Thanks.

#127 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,352 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 09 June 2011 - 01:51 PM

I did mean feet rather than yards. I edited my original post. Thanks.

I'd say you have "most of" your ducks lined up.
I'd also once again suggest taking single steps, check/test before taking the next.
If you end up giving up on the DECA from this location, powerline adapters may also give you/them problems with MRV playback.

As you might see from the post of mine, just before your first post in this thread, 200' is fairly doable and the only reason that DECA is having problems at your one location is the splitter being backwards at the other location.
A.K.A VOS

#128 OFFLINE   azarby

azarby

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 4,014 posts
Joined: Dec 15, 2006

Posted 09 June 2011 - 02:24 PM

I talked to the authorized independent contractor that my in-laws bought their DirecTV equipment from.

He is sending me one green label 4 way SWM DirecTV Splitter, one green label DirecTV SWM 2 way splitter, and a DirecTV Band Stop Filter. I will replace the current 2 way splitter near the DECA and the HR24 with the green label 2 way splitter and make sure it is connected correctly. I will also replace the green label 8 way splitter with the green label 4 way splitter. I will then run the DECA test to make sure all receivers are below 60.

If that does not work I plan on putting the Band Stop Filter on the long run H24 that has problems with maintaining a connection with the Whole Home DVR Service. I will then connect that H24 to the internet / network using Cat 6 and a Powerline Ethernet Adapter. Should the Band Stop Filter be placed on the H24 end or the splitter end?

Finally, Regarding the Conversions Technology Amplifier CT-SLA. I plan on hooking up the amplifier because the run to that H24 is around 200 feet or more. I am going to this out of curiosity and to see what effect if any it has on the H24 that it is connected to. I realize that it should not have any effect on DECA but it may be helpful in providing stability for the long cable run. I always have the option of sending it back if it causes a problem or does not help the long cable run in any way. I will connect the amplifier last after I have corrected the DECA issue.

I do appreciate everyone’s help and I believe I have a good grasp of the problem and potential solutions. If I am heading in the wrong direction then please let me know. Thanks.


If doing the things that VOS has suggested don't work out and you still have to isolate the 200 ft run, put the bandstop filter at the 4 way splitter on the leg that feeds the 200 ft run.

#129 OFFLINE   geaux tigers

geaux tigers

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 550 posts
Joined: Nov 10, 2005

Posted 14 June 2011 - 08:48 PM

I switched the two way splitter with the green labeled DirecTV approved one that arrived today. The old switch was installed with the DECA unit hooked to the input and the HR24 and the 8 way splitter going to the two outputs. I switched it to where the 8 way splitter is hooked up to the input and the DECA and HR24 are now hooked up to two outputs. I ran the DECA output to the red colored output of the two way splitter. I ran the DECA test and the highest reading was a 42. Everything appears to solid regarding DECA. I may replace the 8 way splitter with the 4 way splitter to further increase signal strength on all recievers.

I would have done this sooner but I wanted to have everything I might possibly need at my disposal before going to my in-laws to fix their system. Additionally, I wanted to have the green labeled DirecTV splitters and they didn't arrive until today.

I appreciate all the help that I received.

Edited by geaux tigers, 14 June 2011 - 08:55 PM.


#130 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,352 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 14 June 2011 - 09:37 PM

Changing the 8-way to a 4-way may drop your DECA test to below 40, along with giving slightly better SAT signals, but it's good to hear you were able to get this "fixed" without adding the amp. ;)
A.K.A VOS

#131 OFFLINE   geaux tigers

geaux tigers

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 550 posts
Joined: Nov 10, 2005

Posted 24 June 2011 - 10:02 AM

I changed the 8 way splitter to a 4 way splitter and the readings and now the lowest reading is now a 41 from the back bedroom. The H25 in the kichen actually shows negative numbers.

#132 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,352 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 24 June 2011 - 10:17 AM

I changed the 8 way splitter to a 4 way splitter and the readings and now the lowest reading is now a 41 from the back bedroom. The H25 in the kitchen actually shows negative numbers.

The H25 shows a more "realistic" readings.
Since the first screen is loss in dB, the - reflects this.
Also there is a 10 dB difference in readings.
The 24s show 10 dB more than "is reasonable". I checked this with a short jumper to another DECA.
So the "60 max" with 24s should be 50 max when using the H25 to run this test.
A.K.A VOS

#133 OFFLINE   geaux tigers

geaux tigers

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 550 posts
Joined: Nov 10, 2005

Posted 24 June 2011 - 10:59 PM

The H25 readings were around 10db lower than the HR24 and H24. Everything appears to working great. I really appreciate your help.

The H25 shows a more "realistic" readings.
Since the first screen is loss in dB, the - reflects this.
Also there is a 10 dB difference in readings.
The 24s show 10 dB more than "is reasonable". I checked this with a short jumper to another DECA.
So the "60 max" with 24s should be 50 max when using the H25 to run this test.



#134 OFFLINE   leeliam

leeliam

    Mentor

  • Registered
  • 35 posts
Joined: Aug 02, 2010

Posted 14 July 2011 - 03:19 AM

SWiMs are based on eight tuners. This doesn't matter if they're a SWM8, or SWiMLNB.
The SWiM-16, & SWiM-32 are still based on eight tuners, but these have more outputs [16 has 2 & 32 has 4].
The "60" has to do with DECA and anything below 60 means the signal is "within the dynamic range" to work. This is kind of a "go no go" thing, just like digital TV, where once you have enough signal, it isn't going to get any better with more signal.
Once you've got the levels/losses within range, then the next thing is to run the PHY MESH test on the next page, which you're looking at the bit-rates between nodes. This measures the "quality" of the DECA signals.


For the PHY MESH test what are acceptable numbers for these? Mine are all around 224-252. Can you elaborate more on what I'm looking at for this test?

#135 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,352 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 14 July 2011 - 08:04 AM

For the PHY MESH test what are acceptable numbers for these? Mine are all around 224-252. Can you elaborate more on what I'm looking at for this test?

"Acceptable" is above 200 as below will trigger an error in the system test.
The PHY Level screen shows the power level and the PHY MESH the quality of the signals.
I would need to look at the matrix displaying these a bit closer than you just posting 224-252 to comment much more on what these show. "I'd guess" the 224 is from a node back to the same node, which isn't a path that is used.
A.K.A VOS

#136 OFFLINE   satguy801

satguy801

    New Member

  • Registered
  • 9 posts
Joined: Jul 20, 2011

Posted 20 July 2011 - 11:48 PM

It is about 200 feet using RG6, there are SWM amplifiers out on the market what will extend an extra 200 feet. I have used the Conversions Technology version, and worked great.

#137 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,352 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 21 July 2011 - 07:07 AM

It is about 200 feet using RG6, there are SWM amplifiers out on the market what will extend an extra 200 feet. I have used the Conversions Technology version, and worked great.

It's not "that simple", as you need to account for the splitter loss too.
These should be good distances with each splitter, with enough headroom:

http://www.dbstalk.c...=1&d=1290621499

Yes, you can add an amp, "but" if you have the home whole DVR service using DECA, none of these amps will pass the signal.
A.K.A VOS

#138 OFFLINE   satguy801

satguy801

    New Member

  • Registered
  • 9 posts
Joined: Jul 20, 2011

Posted 21 July 2011 - 10:13 PM

I use a swm amplifier on longer runs works great..

http://www.conversio...-6-p/ct-sla.htm

#139 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,352 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 21 July 2011 - 10:38 PM

I use a swm amplifier on longer runs works great..

http://www.conversio...-6-p/ct-sla.htm

I'm well aware of what it is and what it can do.
What it can't do is handle DECA networking, which was the point of my earlier post.
SWiM has an output of -30 dBm, and receivers should have a minimum of -62 dBm. This leaves about 32 dB of cable & splitter losses. Managing your losses "may" not require using an amp. ;)
A.K.A VOS




spam firewall