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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Guide still screwed up..


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37 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   sdk009

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 04:04 PM

I find that problem with the Daily Show. I've set my DVR to record only first run programs. Without fail it records all of the re-runs, expecially on Monday when the guide only lists the generic description of the show.

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#22 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 04:28 PM

If TIVO can CODE around it then I would think that DIRECTV with all of it's resources can accomplish this (and it really isn't that Big Of A Coding Deal) but let's Get Real Earl. It can be done if Directv wants to maintain their Image and 99.9% of Directv's Customers do not know that it is the Fault of Zap2It which is owned by Tribune Services.

What piece of data, should the DVR use to identify which is the real first airing, and which is the repeat?

As for creating "rules" as work arounds, by definition a "work around" is never perfect. There will always be a corner case, that violates that work around... which requires another work around, which there will be a case, which requires another work around, and so on....

(Take my evening news for example: First run: 10pm, repeats at 1:30am... so I couldn't use a rule that says record the first airing for the day... as then I would always be one day behind.)

At the end of the day, all DVRs be it units like DIRECTV's, TiVo's, custom systems for computers... rely on the data. By the time it gets to these units, you are talking 100,000's of records (just do the math, for 14 days worth of data accross 100's of channels)... at that level... there are too many "cases" to handle.

If you have bad apples, there is nothing you can do to make Apple Pie taste perfect at the end when it is all put together.

For your example: Freedom Watch with Judge Napolitano, they could take the extra time to add some additional information, and the DVRs would have no problem identifying which ones to record.

My local news channel could do the same, and it isn't a lot they would have to do.


Edited by Richierich, 21 October 2010 - 04:30 PM.

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#23 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 06:52 PM

If TIVO can CODE around it then I would think that DIRECTV with all of it's resources can accomplish this (and it really isn't that Big Of A Coding Deal) but let's Get Real Earl. It can be done if Directv wants to maintain their Image and 99.9% of Directv's Customers do not know that it is the Fault of Zap2It which is owned by Tribune Services.


TiVo can (anyone can) create work arounds... but as I said earlier... work arounds are just that... a work around, they are not a fix..

And yes, it is a big coding deal once you start down that path.
You get more and more nitch cases, that expose other nitch cases...

Should we go over where TiVo fails in a lot of these cases.
I know a case, which their "work around" cost a LOT of people to miss the start of a very popular Sci-Fi Series Season...

The ROOT cause of these issues, are simply the content providers are not taking the modest amount of time to provide full data. They in many cases, are providing the absolutely minimum...

And what image is jeopardy? Because the DVR is maybe being cautious and recording more than it should? Instead of relying on a work around, which may result in a false positive?

Seriously... this is nothing new... we have been talking about it for 10 years. The providers/content owners, can very simply add a very modest amount of extra data to their program details... and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

So here is a TiVo thread from earlier TODAY:
http://www.tivocommu...ad.php?t=457766

TiVo uses their infamous 28 Day Rule... Which is again, not perfect.
Why? Easy... Show was scheduled for Tonight... something pre-empted it, but TiVo didn't get the data in time.. so it records... but then on Saturday it is decided that it will re-air... guess what, it doesn't record... because it thinks it already recorded it.

-- Now that your are thinking, okay... so that is one case.

How about another? How would you build a work around, assuming all the key data fields are not available (which in most of these cases is the case)...

7:00pm - Last weeks episode replays
8:00pm - is the new one

On another channel, they flip that
7:00pm is the new one
10:00pm is last weeks replay

Which do you record, if you don't have the key fields to tell you if:
a) You have already recorded the episode
B) You don't know definitively if it is a new episode

How do you code for that scenerio?

Oh... and this thread sounds awfully similar to the issue, and the work around that has been talked about here...
http://www.tivocommu...ighlight=repeat
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#24 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 07:46 PM

I learn something every day. ;)

Looks like we're back to finding a cure for GIGO. :D
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#25 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 06:55 AM

Thanks Earl for that Explanation as I haven't thought about all of those Scenarios which make alot of sense!!! :)
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#26 OFFLINE   HerntDawg

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 07:13 AM

Stuff was recorded that wasn't suppose to record.

Do a search on dbstalk.com and you will find an answer as to why it was or wasn't.

Stop whining!!!!

#27 OFFLINE   n3ntj

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 08:18 AM

That is Odd.

Other then Little People Big World, I have each of those others shows recording on multiple DVRs with no issues.

Only time it has recorded "repeats", is when I look, and they are generic information. Have you tried removing the Series Link and readding it?

Your SVU, is it on NBC? Or one of the Syndicated Replays?


These shows in my Series Link list are on the original networks only... L&O:SVU on NBC, MythBusters on Discovery, Little People on TLC, etc.

I did remove and re-create the Series Link list and it did not fix it.

Also, I still had no programs in my ToDo list for next week although at least 9 of the shows I have Series Links for are indeed new episodes next week. I manually set each to record from the Guide and it had the multiple "Rs" showing it was a Series Link recording. Then, when I went to the Series Link manager, it showed 0 episodes for all of the shows. Something weird is going on.
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#28 OFFLINE   matt

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 08:39 AM

Earl, you make a good point. I would rather have extra shows to delete than nothing to watch.
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#29 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 08:58 AM

Earl, can't Directv put more pressure on those responsible for fixing these omissions or errors???
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#30 OFFLINE   trainman

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 09:25 AM

I find that problem with the Daily Show. I've set my DVR to record only first run programs. Without fail it records all of the re-runs, expecially on Monday when the guide only lists the generic description of the show.


In my experience, this is only a problem with the Monday daytime reruns, as well as during weeks when the show is entirely reruns. New episodes are handled just fine -- the DVR will record the first available showing and ignore the overnight/next-day reruns.

The issue seems to be that Comedy Central makes pretty much last-minute decisions about which episodes they're going to rerun -- the Monday daytime rerun is, I believe, supposed to be the "best" episode from the previous week, and then during rerun weeks, they pick episodes that are recent and still appear timely, but with no apparent pattern. And they don't seem to submit the rerun info to Tribune (at least, not in a timely enough manner that it gets into Tribune's data feed in advance).

Someone else mentioned "South Park," which I've only ever had issues with when they've done something like a "viewer's choice" marathon and haven't announced the included episodes in advance. For first-run episodes, the guide data sometimes stays generic up until the day of the broadcast, but it always gets "filled in" before the show actually airs. (They've actually gotten better at this in the past couple of seasons -- seems like this season, the guide data has been there at least several days ahead.)
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#31 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 09:35 AM

Earl, can't Directv put more pressure on those responsible for fixing these omissions or errors???


The presure is out there, has been for nearly a decade... not much has changed.
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#32 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 09:37 AM

The presure is out there, has been for nearly a decade... not much has changed.

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#33 OFFLINE   hasan

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 11:14 AM

Since this is so quirky to fix (at least from D*'s point of view), and the source data people show no real interest in fixing it, it's time to answer a simple question:

Is it preferable to record what you want and some duplicates, or to randomly miss the preferred show?

The answer is obvious, to me. The boxes supply a remote with a nice red button on it that works very well in this situation and it certainly doesn't take much time.

The problem happens for me, but not a lot. Most of the time I get only what I want.

In one case, I record all originals and repeats of NCIS on USA Network. Every couple of days, I go through the playlist with my finger on the the red button, deleting those episodes that I remember too well.

I have a separate series link set up for NCIS on CBS. I have never had a non-new show record from that series link.

All in all, the process of recording works very well for me, and the occasional screw-up of "over-recording" is a lot easier to live with than the alternative.

I would love Tribune to fix the issue, but I'm not holding my breath (or risking my mental health, what little there is left of it, on a successful resolution):)

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#34 OFFLINE   radioboy3

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 11:43 AM

I have problems with anything on BBC America, right now Law & Order UK is quite bad. I have to program manually. Also, TNT and the Closer the season during last summer, TNT and Southland last winter and Law & Order: CI on USA last Spring/Summer.

Lastly, I the most problems have problems with the 101. It seems to affect former HBO series near the end of the run. The last 10 or 12 episodes of OZ and Deadwood would not record. I had look up episode titles on imbd.com and manually program them.

I can understand the networks and TMS not providing correct information, but why is the same issue happening with an in-house network from Directv? There are several threads about the 101 issue already.

#35 OFFLINE   Earl Bonovich

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 01:22 PM

Law & Order UK is quite bad.


I have had to set that one to record, repeat's only.
Since they put the UK OAD (back in 2009), instead of the BBCA OAD, which is now.

For the101 shows, what is showing as the OAD?
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#36 OFFLINE   trainman

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 09:38 PM

For the101 shows, what is showing as the OAD?


For "The Wire," it shows the original HBO air date (e.g., this coming Sunday's episode is listed as 6/8/2003). At least with that show, though, a "First Run and Repeats" Series Link seems to work just fine -- I've gotten no unwanted recordings (only one recording of each episode).
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#37 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 10:26 PM

Examples of recent ones?


I personally could care less if re-runs get recorded when the SL is set to first run only, I just delete the re-runs, but I have a perfect example.

Coming up this week BBCA is showing old Doctor Who episodes, each one apparently is marked as first-run because my SL is set to record something like 39 of them.
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#38 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 10:28 PM

I can understand the networks and TMS not providing correct information, but why is the same issue happening with an in-house network from Directv? There are several threads about the 101 issue already.


Ummmm, because technically the OAD for those are the dates they were aired on HBO. That's not a problem with the guide data, they are repeats from another network. The OAD is just that, the date which the episode originally aired, not the date that it airs first on every network that airs it.

Edited by RunnerFL, 22 October 2010 - 10:28 PM.

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