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Multi-Room Viewing and Static IP Addresses - Discussion

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#1 OFFLINE   The Merg

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 01:07 PM

There seem to be some issues that occur for users when setting up MRV and using a DECA to connect to the home network. This thread is to discuss those issues and possible solutions.

Most home routers are set up to automatically assign IP addresses to all the devices on the home network using DHCP. Most home networks use an IP address in the range of 192.168.x.x, but some also use the range of 10.0.x.x. The router is generally configured to use a range of IP addresses for this, such as 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.255. However, some routers only specify the starting IP address and the number of DHCP clients that are allowed. In the previous example, it would be a starting IP address of 192.168.1.100 with 156 clients allowed. In order to see what this range is set at, you will need to log onto your router. Most routers are setup with an IP address 192.168.1.1 or 192.168.0.1. Check your router documentation to determine what the default router IP address is.

The main issue that seems to occur when using MRV and being connected to your home network is that receivers will start to drop off the network with no indication as to why. The belief is that there is some issue with how DHCP leases are being handled by the receiver. When the router assigns an IP address to the receiver, it is only for a limited amount of time. When that time is about to expire, the receiver is supposed to request the lease to be extended. While the receiver thinks the lease has been extended, it seems that routers are not really doing this, thus the receiver drops off the network.

One way to troubleshoot this issue is to remove the Broadband DECA that bridges the receivers to the home network. Restore Defaults and Repeat Network Setup under Network Setup and they will revert to an internal IP address (169.254.x.x). It can sometimes take a little bit of time before the receivers will see each other using this IP address range, but it should work. Obviously, if MRV is now working fine you are back in business, except that you don't have access to your home network or VOD/PPV.

Since the issue seems to be with DHCP, the next option is to assign IP addresses to your receivers and bypass DHCP. Make sure the Broadband DECA is connected if you had previously disconnected it. Go into Setup and select Network Setup and then Advanced Setup. Here you can manually set the receiver to the IP address of your choice. Make sure to pick an IP address that is outside the DHCP range on the router. So, using the example from before, you would select an IP address below 192.168.1.100.

Use the following info for the other settings:
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway: <your router IP address>
DNS: <your router IP address>

Once you have done this, you should be able to connect to the Internet and also have MRV without the issue of receivers dropping off the network.

- Merg

Edited by The Merg, 24 October 2010 - 06:48 AM.

Today's problems don't worry me, I haven't solved yesterday's yet.

SlimLine-3 Dish w/ SWM16 (HD Service / WHDVR) / Full Setup
HR34-700 / Panasonic TC-P50G25 HDTV / HDMI / Networked - DECA / Family Room
HR44-700 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom

HR24-100 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom


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#2 OFFLINE   The Merg

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 01:08 PM

Future use.

- Merg

Today's problems don't worry me, I haven't solved yesterday's yet.

SlimLine-3 Dish w/ SWM16 (HD Service / WHDVR) / Full Setup
HR34-700 / Panasonic TC-P50G25 HDTV / HDMI / Networked - DECA / Family Room
HR44-700 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom

HR24-100 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom


#3 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 02:31 PM

So as someone that by no means is any kind of router/network guru...

Let's look at this from the simplest point of view:

Bring up your receivers info screen and write down the network settings.

With a 2Wire mine are 192.168.1.64 and higher. This router is 192.168.1.254.
So this means my pool is 192.168.1.64 to .253.
Simply changing the last part of the IP address to anything between 192.168.1.010 to 192.168.1.63 will make these static and outside of the DHCP pool.

Working with someone who has a Linksy WRT320N shows the pool is 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.149. This router is 192.168.1.1.
So again above the 192.168.1.1 of the router to below the 192.168.1.100 will be the static IP outside of the pool.

As posted each router maker may use slightly different numbers, but I think it would be fairly safe to stay away from the 192.168.1.1, as routers & modems normally use these, and if you simply look at what the receiver is using, you'll be fine if you set the IP to a lower number.

You don't need to do anything to the subnet, gatway or DNS, as these should have been supplied by the router.

As Merg has posted, go into advanced settings and simply change the last box of the IP address.

Hopefully those with other model router will post their info here and this thread can become a useful resource for those that aren't network/router gurus.

I don't think you really need to do anything in the router, and these changes can simply be done from each receiver.
A.K.A VOS

#4 OFFLINE   The Merg

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 02:46 PM

Thanks for the correction about the netmask, I forgot about that, although most routers default to using 192.168.1.x, so the subnet mask of 255.255.255.0 should suffice 99% of the time. As for picking a static IP address, I did mention in my post about determining the range that is being used for DHCP prior to selecting the IP addresses to use. I also mentioned how some home networks do use 10.0.x.x as opposed to 192.168.x.x.

As for reserved DHCP or static DHCP addressing, I myself do use that and had considered putting it in the post above but opted against it. While it allows you to easily manage your devices and from the router you can easily see what devices are connected, I think that trying to get people to set their network up for that is actually a little more difficult.

As with using static IP addressing, the user will still need to log onto the router, however now we are adding on even more steps. The user needs to get the MAC address from the receiver and then find the location of the static/reserved DHCP addressing on the router, if their router has that option as not all do. Then they need to add each of the routers into that table for which every router is different how that information is entered in.

Also, it is still possible that these network drop off might still occur when using static DHCP as you still have the lease issue. The only difference is that with static DHCP, you always know the IP address that will be assigned to a specific device. With static IP addresses, you no longer have to worry about the lease issue.

I also think it is much easier to have the user log into the router and see what the default DHCP range is and then pick an IP address outside that range as instructed in my OP.

Once again, I do like static DHCP and use it myself for all my permanent devices (including laptops). However, I think for users with the receiver drop off issue, that a static IP address is easier to setup and has become a known solution that works.

- Merg

Edited by The Merg, 23 October 2010 - 02:54 PM.

Today's problems don't worry me, I haven't solved yesterday's yet.

SlimLine-3 Dish w/ SWM16 (HD Service / WHDVR) / Full Setup
HR34-700 / Panasonic TC-P50G25 HDTV / HDMI / Networked - DECA / Family Room
HR44-700 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom

HR24-100 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom


#5 OFFLINE   Doug Brott

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 02:48 PM

Most standard consumer routers tends to support a single class C network (192.16.x.x with netmask of 255.255.255.0) .. This is not absolute by any means. Heck, technically they're firewall/router combo units, but most consumers think of "firewall" as being software on the PC and "router" being the device that connects you to the Internet (safely).
DIRECTV Firmware Monitor - iPhone - Android - HTML5

DIRECTV employee since August 2011.
All comments are my own. Unless specifically stated, my views do NOT represent the views of DIRECTV

#6 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 03:06 PM

Once again, I do like static DHCP and use it myself for all my permanent devices (including laptops). However, I think for users with the receiver drop off issue, that a static IP address is easier to setup and has become a known solution that works.

- Merg

I think from reading a lot of problem posts AND from my own experiences, that a wireless routers are having more problems with MRV/DECA even when these are hardwired to the router. What exactly is happening with the DHCP lease and MRV isn't clear, but playlists not updating and receivers dropping off line, are problems and checking the receiver IP address has shown it hasn't changed, but something having to do with the lease renewal hasn't worked correctly.

Maybe this table can be added to as we get more "gurus" supplying more information.

Router| Router IP Address| DHCP Pool Range
2Wire HomePortal 1000SW|172.16.0.1|172.16.1.33 – 172.16.1.250
2Wire 2700HG-B Gateway| 192.168.1.254 | 192.168.1.64 - 192.168.1.253
Linksy WRT320N | 192.168.1.1| 192.168.1.100 - 192.168.1.149
NetGear WNDR3700 | 192.168.1.1 |192.168.1.2 - 192.168.1.254
D-Link DIR-825 | 192.168.0.1 | 192.168.0.100 - 192.168.0.199

Edited by veryoldschool, 24 October 2010 - 09:29 AM.

A.K.A VOS

#7 OFFLINE   dsw2112

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 03:21 PM

...Now if we were using Static DHCP you need to only change the router and the DHCP address range does not need to change. Also we are still using DHCP so we are just clicking an option.

For NetGear WNDR3700 we would do the following.

  • Select LAN Setup
  • Under 'Address Reservation' click ADD
  • Select the device by name to add. For this case all the 'DIRECTV-H24-' devices.

Done!
With this process you only need to click the option. No user entry of any IP address is made. Less risk in doing something wrong...


As VOS mentioned the "problem" with this approach is the DHCP lease, and not necessarily keeping the IP for the receiver the same. Many routers have a configuration option for the lease time (usually defaulted to 24 hours), and this would be an added step to your list. As someone who has configured MRV for several neighbors and witnessed receivers "drop-off" first hand, my personal recommendation would be a pure static IP setup. I've found that non-technically inclined people find it easier to adjust the DHCP pool (only necessary to do this once) and assign static IP's, than perform the above steps (keep in mind the above steps aren't always easy to accomplish/find when you factor in the configuration options on different router types.)

Edited by dsw2112, 23 October 2010 - 03:29 PM.

SL3-Slimline to SWM16 - DECA
HR34-700, HR24-500, & HR22-100

#8 OFFLINE   David MacLeod

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 03:28 PM

netgear fvs336g is similar to above, have not tried it but believe the lan group settings can be used for this too.
Dave MacLeod
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#9 OFFLINE   The Merg

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 04:06 PM

While in your router's case, the user would need to alter the start and/or end of the DHCP range, altering that and then changing one number on the receiver is a lot easier than trying to enter an IP address and MAC address in a setting on the router.

Plus, since the issue with the receivers dropping off appears to be related to the DHCP lease, this issue would potentially not be resolved by using static DHCP. The purpose of my OP was to get a user up and running with MRV that has had these drop offs as quickly and as easily as possible.

- Merg

Today's problems don't worry me, I haven't solved yesterday's yet.

SlimLine-3 Dish w/ SWM16 (HD Service / WHDVR) / Full Setup
HR34-700 / Panasonic TC-P50G25 HDTV / HDMI / Networked - DECA / Family Room
HR44-700 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom

HR24-100 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom


#10 OFFLINE   The Merg

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 04:11 PM

As I said before; I have zero problem with pure static method.
I also think it is worth posting the method I am using as some may find it useful especially if they are trying to resolve more than just the DirecTV loss of lease.

If the problem is the DHCP lease then I would suspect a connection issue as the default lease expires for me is once every 12 hours for the DirecTV devices.

If there was a connection issue then the drop would cause a new DHCP request do to the dropped connection. The DHCP request in this case or rather the number of requests is trying to tell you were the problem is but instead of fixing the problem the static method is used to mask the issue. The result is dropped packets and poor performance that no one can figure out since there appears to be 'nothing wrong'.

If you see excessive DHCP requests then you have a problem that should be fixed plain and simple.

[DHCP IP: 192.168.3.43] to MAC address 00:16:6b:5f:a2:2d, Saturday, October 23,2010 13:39:16
[DHCP IP: 192.168.3.43] to MAC address 00:16:6b:5f:a2:2d, Saturday, October 23,2010 01:39:17


The issue is that it is the DirecTV receivers that have the DHCP issue. So while other devices have never had an issue, as soon as you add the DirecTV receivers to the mix you have issues. Somehow the receivers are not handling the requests correctly.

This is really an issue that DirecTV needs to resolve as there does not appear to be anything the end user can do. What is posted here is a way for the end user to have working system that will function as expected.

- Merg

Today's problems don't worry me, I haven't solved yesterday's yet.

SlimLine-3 Dish w/ SWM16 (HD Service / WHDVR) / Full Setup
HR34-700 / Panasonic TC-P50G25 HDTV / HDMI / Networked - DECA / Family Room
HR44-700 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom

HR24-100 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom


#11 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 04:47 PM

The purpose of my OP was to get a user up and running with MRV that has had these drop offs as quickly and as easily as possible.

- Merg


The issue is that it is the DirecTV receivers that have the DHCP issue. So while other devices have never had an issue, as soon as you add the DirecTV receivers to the mix you have issues. Somehow the receivers are not handling the requests correctly.

This is really an issue that DirecTV needs to resolve as there does not appear to be anything the end user can do. What is posted here is a way for the end user to have working system that will function as expected.

- Merg

While this whole networking setup does draw a lot of experience network folks, you aren't the ones with the problems, so hopefully we can keep most of posts to a level that those that aren't network savvy can understand and follow some simple steps to get their MRV working.

Router| Router IP Address| DHCP Pool Range
2Wire HomePortal 1000SW|172.16.0.1|172.16.1.33 – 172.16.1.250
2Wire 2700HG-B Gateway| 192.168.1.254 | 192.168.1.64 - 192.168.1.253
Linksy WRT320N | 192.168.1.1| 192.168.1.100 - 192.168.1.149
NetGear WNDR3700 | 192.168.1.1 |192.168.1.2 - 192.168.1.254

A.K.A VOS

#12 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 04:53 PM

My last comment about Static DHCP

Why I give in

Based on the information so far no one here gets the reason for the method or why it is a good idea. Feel free to delete from FAQ. You can do this yourself

Just to clarify.

In my case I did not enter one IP address or MAC address.
I simply selected the item from the list of discovered devices. It is a simple radio button. How could life be easier.

Knowing exactly what you mean, I also want to tell you that this doesn't ALWAYS work, and as such, I would like to stick to the simplest steps that work for ALL conditions, for those that have problems.
A.K.A VOS

#13 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 05:01 PM

You are correct. I do networking for a living. I have written a great amount of network code over the years including network drivers for Ethernet, ATM and Frame-Relay based hardware some of which were based on boards I designed.

So I am not the one who should post here. And you are also correct that we are the ones with systems that do not need to be fixed. :)

Good luck!

You've already been a help with the router info you've given. Please don't go away mad, just this thread will become way too confusing to those that need the help if "the gurus" go off on the pluses of this that or the next thing in great details, we'll all be :confused:
A.K.A VOS

#14 OFFLINE   dennisj00

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 05:02 PM

Note: The subnet mask of 255.255.255.0 will not work with all routers.If your router gateway for example is 192.168.1.1 but the pool for IP's is 192.168.0.1 to 192.168.0.128 then you would need a netmask of 255.255.0.0. If the netmask is not set correctly then you would not be able to use the gateway.

Also; if you assign a device statically it is not easy for most consumers to know the correct way to assign the address. Basically you need to set the router DHCP pool to insure the IP's for you static block do not interfere with the normal pool.

DHCP pool on router: 192.168.3.2 to 192.168.3.64 <= My pool for HDCP
Now you could set a static IP using any address above 192.168.3.64 in the same 192.168.3.0 network.

To me the above information is just to technical for most and subject to issues since you now have to manually maintain your own lists of devices.


If you use the pure static assignment method be sure the IP's are not in the DHCP pool and you keep of record of where everything is located.

If you bought a new router for example the access to the static devices may be at risk. One router by default may have the local IP's set to '192.168.1.xx' while another manufacture may have them at '10.0.0.1.xx'. A simple upgrade of your router may be a nightmare do to a simple configuration issue. It suspect many have returned new routers due to issues as I just described. Nothing wrong with the router but joe user did not remember he changed the IP address on device 'x' two years ago.

There is better method with newer routers and most new routers have this option.

Static DHCP - The better method

The following example is using the NetGear WNDR3700 router. In this case we will still use DHCP but with a slight twist.

The actual name of this method is 'Static DHCP'.


[B]Address Reservations/B]

#|IP Address|Device Name|MAC Address
1|192.168.3.10|HP002655FCDE91|00:26:55:FC:DE:91
2|192.168.3.40|DIRECTV-H24-6B5FA1CA |00:16:6B:5F:A1:CA
3|192.168.3.43|DIRECTV-H24-6B5FA22D |00:16:6B:5F:A2:2D
4|192.168.3.41|DIRECTV-HR24-6B6D5507|00:16:6B:6D:55:07
5|192.168.3.42|DIRECTV-HR24-6B6CF9E7|00:16:6B:6C:F9:E7




You will also notice I have my printer in the Static DHCP list as well for the same reason. Other devices such as LAPTOP's can benefit from this method.

Some older routers may not offer the Static DHCP option and in these cases the pure static method would need to be used.


I don't know of a home router that doesn't use a CLASS C mask of 255.255.255.0 --since the 192.168.x.x space is defined for Class C. No home router using 192.168.x.x will have a dhcp pool greater than the class c space (as a default).

Your 'definition of STATIC DHCP' is actually a DHCP Reservation. . . which isn't a static address. Yes, the address stays the same if the DHCP negotiation is successful, but it is re-negotiated at the end of the lease time.

That seems to be the problem with some of the router / H/HR combinations that DHCP isn't re-negotiating properly, hence, a unit drops off the network.

It's not rocket science and very simple for a user to set an address outside of his routers DHCP pool . . .if he spends a few minutes to google or ask a geek friend.

The OP was offering a workaround for units that are dropping off the network because of dhcp reservations.

Edited by dennisj00, 23 October 2010 - 05:08 PM.


Spending to stimulate the economy as fast as the credit cards will allow!

My Setup / Weather at Lake Norman!/ Boathouse BEES
DLB, MRV, nomad, HDGUI are HERE! . . . We're DONE!


#15 OFFLINE   dennisj00

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 05:19 PM

Netgear has really done a dis-service to set their DHCP range to .2 to .254.

Yes, you could use the higher addresses to assign truly 'static' addresses hoping that you'll never get a conflict from the dhcp server. But there should be a DHCP pool and everything else available for a truly static address.

Spending to stimulate the economy as fast as the credit cards will allow!

My Setup / Weather at Lake Norman!/ Boathouse BEES
DLB, MRV, nomad, HDGUI are HERE! . . . We're DONE!


#16 OFFLINE   dennisj00

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 05:27 PM

OK the dumb blonde in me wants to make this as simple as it can be, so:

What would happen if "the blonde" goes into the receiver and sees xxx.xxx.1.xxx for the IP address and then changes this to xxx.xxx.2.xxx for all the receivers?

Wouldn't this do what is needed and be possibly the simplest, most universal change that will work?


Nope!! A mask of 255.255.255.0 means only the last octet (the last group. . .it's derived from base8 numbers) -but the last group needs to be unique and be between 1 and 254.

And outside of the DHCP pool!!

EDIT: if you make this change, you'll still have MRV, but no internet access.

I'll be happy to do a TCP/IP class in the chat room one night . . .

Spending to stimulate the economy as fast as the credit cards will allow!

My Setup / Weather at Lake Norman!/ Boathouse BEES
DLB, MRV, nomad, HDGUI are HERE! . . . We're DONE!


#17 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 05:31 PM

White DECAs with PIs are no different than the black ones other than the packaging.
As with all of the DECA/MRV installs/setups, there is a lot of info missing from those that are installing and this is causing various "myths".
The White DECA were using for broadband connections simply because the black ones hadn't come out yet.
I've been using white DECAs for about 18 months, and when it comes to RF, I'll run rings around all you network "gurus". :lol:
You never want to use a splitter larger than you need, as you're just burning signal into the loads for nothing more than keeping the unused ports matched. A total wast of signal.

As for home routers:
Some aren't having any issues with MRV, and I was one of these with no wireless devices on my 2Wire. It was bulletproof with DHCP for over a year.
Some are using wireless devices, but MRV is hardwired and are having problems.
Some are using wireless to bridge the DECA to their home networks also having problems.
It seems if a true static IP [out of the DHCP range] doesn't resolve it, then a reboot of the router does.
A.K.A VOS

#18 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 05:35 PM

Nope!! A mask of 255.255.255.0 means only the last octet (the last group. . .it's derived from base8 numbers) -but the last group needs to be unique and be between 1 and 254.

And outside of the DHCP pool!!

EDIT: if you make this change, you'll still have MRV, but no internet access.

I'll be happy to do a TCP/IP class in the chat room one night . . .

Darn... I had to try this and boy did I find the ! marks on the setup screen and it doesn't let you save these changes either.
A.K.A VOS

#19 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 05:37 PM

Netgear has really done a dis-service to set their DHCP range to .2 to .254.

Yes, you could use the higher addresses to assign truly 'static' addresses hoping that you'll never get a conflict from the dhcp server. But there should be a DHCP pool and everything else available for a truly static address.

Seems like Netgear will require logging into the router to make changes. :eek2:
A.K.A VOS

#20 OFFLINE   dennisj00

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 05:40 PM

Darn... I had to try this and boy did I find the ! marks on the setup screen and it doesn't let you save these changes either.


I never tried it (because I knew I didn't want to!) but I'm surprised the H/HR gave you grief about it!!

Spending to stimulate the economy as fast as the credit cards will allow!

My Setup / Weather at Lake Norman!/ Boathouse BEES
DLB, MRV, nomad, HDGUI are HERE! . . . We're DONE!





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