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Multi-Room Viewing and Static IP Addresses - Discussion

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392 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   dennisj00

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 05:41 PM

Seems like Netgear will require logging into the router to make changes. :eek2:


Not sure what you're saying here since all routers require logging in to make changes. . .

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#22 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 05:46 PM

Not sure what you're saying here since all routers require logging in to make changes. . .

No this much I know isn't true.
I changed my IPs to outside the DHCP pool, without having to go into the router at all.
"All I needed to do was..." use the advanced network screen/menu on the receivers. "Never changed anything on/in the router"

"Changing the DHCP pool default does require logging in, but what this thread is sort of trying to find is a list of routers and their DHCP pool range so "a blonde" doesn't have to hassle with a router [unless it's a netgear].
A.K.A VOS

#23 OFFLINE   dennisj00

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 05:53 PM

No this much I know isn't true.
I changed my IPs to outside the DHCP pool, without having to go into the router at all.
"All I needed to do was..." use the advanced network screen/menu on the receivers. "Never changed anything on/in the router"

"Changing the DHCP pool default does require logging in, but what this thread is sort of trying to find is a list of routers and their DHCP pool range so "a blonde" doesn't have to hassle with a router [unless it's a netgear].


Yes, I've said this all along. . . IPs outside of the DHCP pool don't require any interaction from the router . . .except for external access (NAT) or port forwarding back in. . .

In the case of the Netgear router. . .I'd change the DHCP pool to .100 to .150 (or less) and assign all of my devices static IPs except for the 'transient' phones, laptops, etc.

Unfortunately, most people plug in a router, connect to it and surf. I've found people complaining about their speed to find that they're connecting to their neighbor's wireless because their connection is so bad!!

Spending to stimulate the economy as fast as the credit cards will allow!

My Setup / Weather at Lake Norman!/ Boathouse BEES
DLB, MRV, nomad, HDGUI are HERE! . . . We're DONE!


#24 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 05:59 PM

Yes, I've said this all along. . . IPs outside of the DHCP pool don't require any interaction from the router . . .except for external access (NAT) or port forwarding back in. . .

In the case of the Netgear router. . .I'd change the DHCP pool to .100 to .150 (or less) and assign all of my devices static IPs except for the 'transient' phones, laptops, etc.

Unfortunately, most people plug in a router, connect to it and surf. I've found people complaining about their speed to find that they're connecting to their neighbor's wireless because their connection is so bad!!

yeah the "average user" is basically clueless.

DirecTV will never train their installers/techs/CSRs for networking, so some of my intentions here is to try to find ways/steps for "say an installer" to use the receiver to make these changes without going into the router "if possible", since they is every likelihood "the wife" won't have a clue to the router password for the advanced setting changes, which leaves the installer screwed.
A.K.A VOS

#25 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 06:10 PM

Like I said; you should be safe with this method. No need to modify anything on the router at all. We do not expect any DHCP requests to pull IP's from the range selected so using those IP's is as safe as excluding them. It's just not best practice but it will work.

Can't make it any easier for joe installer who does not know networking nor cares to know it. :)

I like this idea, "but" will need to give it 48 hours.
I've got about the worst config with a wireless hop that will fail every 24+ hours, so I've just changed mine to the 24x range and will post back if this works.
I've gone through this enough to have a very good idea of everything that doesn't work. :lol:
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#26 OFFLINE   dennisj00

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 06:10 PM

While the best policy for using static IP means we set the DHCP pool to exclude the IP's we want for static assignment this is by no means a requirement.

You can assign any device to any IP you desire. The reason for the exclusion is to prevent other devices from being assigned the IP used by your device.

If we added the pool method information then you would be fine in assigning the IP's without changing the router.

Let me explain.

The NetGear routers pull address from the pool from bottom up. So we know our DHCP IP requests are not going to be assigned higher numbers until we have used up the lower blocks.

Simply knowing the method means we would be safe to assign a static IP above the usable range we expect for our network.

Router|Router IP Address|DHCP Pool Range|Assignment Method|Safe Static Rage
NetGear WNDR3700|192.168.1.1|192.168.1.2 - 192.168.1.254|UP|192.168.1.240 - 192.168.1.253
2-Wire HomePortal 1000SW|172.16.0.1|172.16.1.33 – 172.16.1.250|UP|172.168.1.240-172.168.1.253
2-Wire HomePortal 2700HG-B Gateway|192.168.1.254|192.168.1.64 - 192.168.1.253|UP|192.168.1.240 - 192.168.1.252


Like I said; you should be safe with this method. No need to modify anything on the router at all. We do not expect any DHCP requests to pull IP's from the range selected so using those IP's is as safe as excluding them. It's just not best practice but it will work.

Can't make it any easier for joe installer who does not know networking nor cares to know it. :)


On your table, how do you conclude that 240 to 253 is 'safe' ?

Other than being on the 'high' range of 1-255 and you assume the DHCP server goes from low to high? Some don't.

Fortunately or unfortunately, joe installer doesn't need to worry about this. . . plus he'd have to know different router brands, user names, passwords . . . ain't gonna happen.

Edited by dennisj00, 23 October 2010 - 06:16 PM.


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DLB, MRV, nomad, HDGUI are HERE! . . . We're DONE!


#27 OFFLINE   dennisj00

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 06:18 PM

Agreed.

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#28 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 06:42 PM

Did I say I needed 48 hours? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I didn't get 10 mins.

I tried to play a recording via MRV and it failed.
The DVR was no longer on my list of recorders under whole home menu status.

Outside of the DHCP pool [here] is a must.

I'm back to being able to play this recording with "true" Static PIs outside of the pool. :hurah:
A.K.A VOS

#29 OFFLINE   dennisj00

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 07:11 PM

Way to go VOS!!

There's something lurking in the shadows of using DHCP with H/HRs . . .it could be the timing affected by DECA, the router, or the wiring since there's been reports with wired, wireless, or DECA a true 'Static' IP is currently a good workaround.

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#30 OFFLINE   dsw2112

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 07:17 PM

...While the best policy for using static IP means we set the DHCP pool to exclude the IP's we want for static assignment this is by no means a requirement....


I wouldn't agree with this -- there are potential problems with assigning a static IP within a DHCP pool. For the purposes here, most should consider this a requirement.

I like the exchange of ideas flowing here, but at some point down the road, this thread may need to be cleaned up, and posts deleted, once we've boiled this all down.
This isn't to stop the discussion, but just to let everyone know at some point this thread needs to be concise for those that are looking for and need the help.


Agreed, and in this spirit of VOS' post our advice should be to assign IP's outside of the DHCP pool. Once the DHCP pool is established a user doesn't need to "mess" with it any longer. Taking a "chance" that a static IP (inside a DHCP pool) will not be assigned by the router just isn't smart advice...

Edited by dsw2112, 23 October 2010 - 07:38 PM.

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#31 OFFLINE   dennisj00

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 07:22 PM

Good summary. Assigning anything manually in the DHCP pool (except reservations that we don't like!) - is asking for problems 6 days, 6 weeks, 6 months from now. . . and the further from the latest change on your network makes it much harder to find the problem!

I keep a log of any change that I do on anybody's network.

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DLB, MRV, nomad, HDGUI are HERE! . . . We're DONE!


#32 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 07:40 PM

So to kind of sum up what looks to be the "simple" way so far:

look at what the receiver pulls off the router while using DHCP.

if you see xxx.64 [or higher] or xxx.100 [or higher] then select ones below, say in the xxx.040 range.

If you see xxx.033 [or higher] select ones below, say in the xxx.010 or 020 range.

If you're looking at a netgear and see xxx.00x [or higher], then you will need to have "someone" manage the router and log in to change the default DHCP pool.
Either raise the starting IP or lower the ending IP, to create a range of IPs for the receivers to use that are outside of the modified DHCP server pool.
A.K.A VOS

#33 OFFLINE   dennisj00

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 07:58 PM

Yes and 'Ping' any address that you think you might use from a computer on the LAN.

No response is usually good enough to say you can use that address.

But most / all of this is way beyond what should (currently) be required of an installer.

There's just way too many variations / combinations of routers / devices out there.

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DLB, MRV, nomad, HDGUI are HERE! . . . We're DONE!


#34 OFFLINE   The Merg

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 08:16 PM

I agree and that is why I said 'not best practice'.

Down side is tech may have to leave without the system working since neither the tech or the sub may know how to setup the router to exclude the addresses in question.

My method simply allowed setup with possible conflict that the user would then need to work out.

I guess the in the case were you have to ask the user to setup the router you would just leave if they don't know how.


You are making this too hard on the user. What I recommended was that the user check the router to see what the DHCP range is and then just set a static IP address outside that range.

It is easy to do and has been shown to be a resolution that works. The point of the this thread was to get the basic user up and working again. Please don't make this more difficult for them then it has to be.

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#35 OFFLINE   dsw2112

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 08:22 PM

...Down side is tech may have to leave without the system working since neither the tech or the sub may know how to setup the router to exclude the addresses in question...


The D* tech isn't responsible for any of the networking configuration other than connecting a DECA to the router (if the ICK was ordered.) The advice here is really for the end user after the install is complete (or when problems arise.) MRV will work without a router, and any problems stemming from a router connection to the DECA network would be the user's responsibility.
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#36 OFFLINE   dsw2112

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 08:31 PM

In this case I am 100% in agreement. I thought we were talking initial install. :)

Initial install is a whole different problem! :eek2:


Initial install is no different -- D* techs are not trained in networking. If the tech deems the router to be "problematic" he will likely remove the ICK from the router. The receivers will auto-assign IP's and do not need a DHCP server. The customer will then need to resolve their router "issues" to enable the internet connectivity. That's why we're here :D
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#37 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 08:43 PM

Initial install is no different -- D* techs are not trained in networking. If the tech deems the router to be "problematic" he will likely remove the ICK from the router. The receivers will auto-assign IP's and do not need a DHCP server. The customer will then need to resolve their router "issues" to enable the internet connectivity. That's why we're here :D

The basic network connection is to first ask the customer to check if they have internet access. Next is to plug the ICK into their router and ask them to see if they still have internet access. If yes, done. If not, then remove the ICK connection and tell them to have a network service call by somebody like Geek Squad.

"Now" what I've trying to sort out is if a tech could handle a service call where the customer has MRV problems, yet each receiver shows it has internet access.

If most of this can be done through the receiver's network menu, then this could be well within the tech's area of responsibility/area of expertise.
While having to make changes to any router is not, knowing what to do could be given to the customer to have resolved.

"Of course" the end solution here is to have all the receivers handle DHCP for all routers properly.
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#38 OFFLINE   dsw2112

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 08:56 PM

...If most of this can be done through the receiver's network menu, then this could be well within the tech's area of responsibility/area of expertise...


That's the problem, there's not enough info in the receiver's menu to make a determination. The ideal solution would be for D* to deal with the likely DHCP lease problem the receivers have. I'm not sure if that's possible or even being looked at... At this point I don't see what the installer could/should do differently as it's just not their area of expertise. If the setup (mrv) works with the ICK disconnected then I think their responsibility effectively ends...
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#39 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 09:24 PM

Well, yes and no:

So to kind of sum up what looks to be the "simple" way so far:

look at what the receiver pulls off the router while using DHCP.

if you see xxx.64 [or higher] or xxx.100 [or higher] then select ones below, say in the xxx.040 range.

If you see xxx.033 [or higher] select ones below, say in the xxx.010 or 020 range.

If you're looking at a netgear and see xxx.00x [or higher], then you will need to have "someone" manage the router and log in to change the default DHCP pool.
Either raise the starting IP or lower the ending IP, to create a range of IPs for the receivers to use that are outside of the modified DHCP server pool.


A.K.A VOS

#40 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 06:08 AM

"Of course" the end solution here is to have all the receivers handle DHCP for all routers properly.

That would be a good thing. :D

Are we there yet? ;):nono2:

Still a work in progress on a couple fronts...but then...you already knew that. :lol:
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