Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo

Multi-Room Viewing and Static IP Addresses - Discussion

switch dish direct to vs

  • Please log in to reply
392 replies to this topic

#51 OFFLINE   The Merg

The Merg

    1*

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 10,280 posts
  • LocationNorthern VA
Joined: Jun 24, 2007

Posted 24 October 2010 - 12:12 PM

Super idea and super work on your part. Thanks.

P.S...nice work on 5K!


And thank you kind sir.

- Merg

Today's problems don't worry me, I haven't solved yesterday's yet.

SlimLine-3 Dish w/ SWM16 (HD Service / WHDVR) / Full Setup
HR34-700 / Panasonic TC-P50G25 HDTV / HDMI / Networked - DECA / Family Room
HR44-700 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom

HR24-100 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom


...Ads Help To Support This Site...

#52 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 42,143 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 24 October 2010 - 12:14 PM

This is out of a 2wire convoluted user manual here: http://www.2wire.com..._User_Guide.pdf

Subnet Mask. The IP addressing system allows subnetworks or “interchanges” to be created, and devices numbers or “extensions” to be established within these subnetworks. These numbers are created using a mathematical device called a subnet mask. A subnet mask, like the IP address, is a set of four numbers in dotted decimal notation. Subnet masks typically take three forms:
• 255.0.0.0
• 255.255.0.0
• 255.255.255.0
The number 255 “masks” out the corresponding number of the IP address, resulting in IP address numbers that are valid for the network. For example, an IP address of 123.45.67.89 and a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0 results in a sub network number of 123.45.67.0 and a device number of 89.
The subnet mask used for the network typically corresponds to the class of IP address assigned, as shown in the following table.

^
which was the table I posted
A.K.A VOS

#53 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 42,143 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 24 October 2010 - 12:17 PM

I'd hafta look into it, but if you set your subnet mask to 255.255.0.0, then you should be able to have your router be 192.168.1.254 and use 192.168.2.040.

- Merg

If I do "get this", then these would need to be 191.xxx
A.K.A VOS

#54 OFFLINE   dennisj00

dennisj00

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 9,252 posts
  • LocationLake Norman, NC
Joined: Sep 27, 2007

Posted 24 October 2010 - 12:30 PM

The subnet mask used for the network typically corresponds to the class of IP address assigned, as shown
in the following table.

IP Address Class | Dotted-Decimal Notation Ranges | Corresponding Subnet Mask

Class A | 1.xxx.xxx.xxx to 126.xxx.xxx.xxx | 255.0.0.0

Class B | 128.0.xxx.xxx to 191.255.xxx.xxx | 255.255.0.0

Class C | 192.0.0.xxx to 223.255.255.xxx | 255.255.255.0

Maybe you can shed some more light on this.
Why can't my router be 192.168.1.254 and I use 192.168.2.040 ?
"Or" why can a router be 172.16.0.1 and yet can use 172.16.1.33 – 172.16.1.250?

Maybe I've answered my own question, by realizing the "0" in the subnet acts as a wildcard.


I've never tried a different mask on home routers, but according to the specs the 192.168.x.x space is a Class C that uses a 255.255.255.0 mask and only allows 254 devices -- .0 and .255 are used by the network.

So a class B mask 255.255.0.0 technically allows the address space for 65,024 devices . . (256 * 254)

You can use the mask to segment a smaller portion of any address space. . . for example, 255.255.255.128 will only allow 128 addresses. . .

In simple terms, it's a binary bit-wise AND (I think) that permits addresses that are and-ed with the mask to flow on the LAN. . . otherwise no communication.

That's why your 192.168.2.x won't talk on a 192.168.1.x net with a mask of 255.255.255.0.

But a 172.16.0.1 and 172.16.1.33 works if the mask is 255.255.0.0

So simple a caveman could do it?

Edited by dennisj00, 24 October 2010 - 12:37 PM.

Spending to stimulate the economy as fast as the credit cards will allow!

My Setup / Weather at Lake Norman!/ Boathouse BEES
DLB, MRV, nomad, HDGUI are HERE! . . . We're DONE!


#55 OFFLINE   Richierich

Richierich

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 8,487 posts
Joined: Jan 10, 2008

Posted 24 October 2010 - 12:33 PM

Super idea and super work on your part. Thanks.

P.S...nice work on 5K!


+1. Alot of Great Posts go into that Post Count Total!!!
*
DIRECTV CUSTOMER SINCE 1997
Here's My Setup

#56 OFFLINE   dennisj00

dennisj00

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 9,252 posts
  • LocationLake Norman, NC
Joined: Sep 27, 2007

Posted 24 October 2010 - 12:50 PM

Windows 7 has a 'Programmers' view of the Calculator that has binary operators. . .

With it set in decimal, enter 192 AND 255 . . . the result is 192.

Same for 168. . Same for 1

So any 192.168.1.x address passes with a mask of 255.255.255.0

This is probably the most difficult concept in TCP/IP. . . and I thought Smith charts were magic!

Spending to stimulate the economy as fast as the credit cards will allow!

My Setup / Weather at Lake Norman!/ Boathouse BEES
DLB, MRV, nomad, HDGUI are HERE! . . . We're DONE!


#57 OFFLINE   The Merg

The Merg

    1*

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 10,280 posts
  • LocationNorthern VA
Joined: Jun 24, 2007

Posted 24 October 2010 - 06:57 PM

If I do "get this", then these would need to be 191.xxx


No. You could still have 192.168.xxx.xxx. With the subnet mask set to 255.255.0.0, you are allowing the router to see IP addresses with any value in the last two spots. Using 255.255.255.0 keeps it so that the router only sees IP addresses within its own subnet.

- Merg

Today's problems don't worry me, I haven't solved yesterday's yet.

SlimLine-3 Dish w/ SWM16 (HD Service / WHDVR) / Full Setup
HR34-700 / Panasonic TC-P50G25 HDTV / HDMI / Networked - DECA / Family Room
HR44-700 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom

HR24-100 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom


#58 OFFLINE   bobnielsen

bobnielsen

    Éminence grise

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 8,293 posts
  • LocationBainbridge Island, WA
Joined: Jun 29, 2006

Posted 24 October 2010 - 07:29 PM

No. You could still have 192.168.xxx.xxx. With the subnet mask set to 255.255.0.0, you are allowing the router to see IP addresses with any value in the last two spots. Using 255.255.255.0 keeps it so that the router only sees IP addresses within its own subnet.

- Merg


Correct. Where it really gets interesting is when netmask values other than 255 are used (which fortunately doesn't apply here).

#59 OFFLINE   E91

E91

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 341 posts
Joined: Oct 07, 2008

Posted 24 October 2010 - 09:52 PM

Somebody should send a link to this thread to the higher ups at D*. When I was having MRV problems, they steadfastly maintained that ICK and DECA were unrelated, so that anything my router was doing could not have an impact on MRV.

Fortunately, I had the guys participating in this thread to talk me through the fix.

Anyway, just wanted to thank you guys again. Since I went to static IPs outside the range of the DHCP, things have run smooth as silk.

#60 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 42,143 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 24 October 2010 - 10:16 PM

Somebody should send a link to this thread to the higher ups at D*.

I'd feel fairly "safe" that this information is headed that way. ;)
A.K.A VOS

#61 OFFLINE   adamson

adamson

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 538 posts
  • LocationDunnellon, Florida
Joined: Nov 09, 2007

Posted 24 October 2010 - 10:59 PM

Its real neat how this thread and the sticky came about after a big zero of information on anything relative to this in one place. And no this is no boo hoo because my post sometime ago got little attention.

This issue I believe is on the side of the routing device and not Directv equipment. It just seems a lot of routers are not playing nice with MRV. I understand the need to find solutions and obviously thats what this thread is about. As far as I can say the problem is not with Directv whatsoever nor is this their issue. MRV works fine for me without DECA and if I had DECA with internet I am sure it would work well too. Once again its the routing device not your receiver causing the issues. When you all come to realize you need to find a router that will play nice with either DECA or unsupported MRV all will be well. This just makes me think of a solution such as the AM21, we need a device especially made for directv...their own routing device. My bet that will never be. The formality of this thread to me is no more than a lesson for a amateur. Good luck all, and leave the Directv receivers alone, they work but your router does not. This is not Directv's problem period.

#62 OFFLINE   E91

E91

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 341 posts
Joined: Oct 07, 2008

Posted 24 October 2010 - 11:23 PM

Its real neat how this thread and the sticky came about after a big zero of information on anything relative to this in one place. And no this is no boo hoo because my post sometime ago got little attention.

This issue I believe is on the side of the routing device and not Directv equipment. It just seems a lot of routers are not playing nice with MRV. I understand the need to find solutions and obviously thats what this thread is about. As far as I can say the problem is not with Directv whatsoever nor is this their issue. MRV works fine for me without DECA and if I had DECA with internet I am sure it would work well too. Once again its the routing device not your receiver causing the issues. When you all come to realize you need to find a router that will play nice with either DECA or unsupported MRV all will be well. This just makes me think of a solution such as the AM21, we need a device especially made for directv...their own routing device. My bet that will never be. The formality of this thread to me is no more than a lesson for a amateur. Good luck all, and leave the Directv receivers alone, they work but your router does not. This is not Directv's problem period.


And, exactly how are you "sure" of this? There are dozens of reports on this board of folk who had trouble getting DECA and their routers to play nicely together. You've not tried to implement it yourself, so how do you know it would come off without a hitch for you?

One interesting aspect of your entire "its not DirecTV's problem" argument is the AT&T connection. D* has a formal partnership with AT&T so that you can buy "advanced television" from AT&T (which, if your home is not wired for their Uverse, will be D*). But, guess what? The DSL modem that AT&T sells to all it's DSL customers (2Wire) interferes with the DECA network and causes MRV to fail unless you configure as above. I know for a fact that this can happen - because I had the problem myself.

D*'s DECA system simply does not play nicely with the routers that 90% of the users have installed. In my own case, I probably have six or seven different devices (Roku, PS3, TV, Slingbox, printer, two home computers ) running through my router. None of those devices had a single issue - ever. It was only my D* receivers that were problematic.

In other words, every single provider of internet related technology out there has no problem with the ubiquitous 2Wire modems, with the one exception of D* (who is actually partnered with the provider of 2Wire modems). Even if you have D*'s installer come to your home, install the system using their extra-cost ICK, and then you do exactly as they instruct, you will eventually have problems.

I would say that is very much a DirecTV issue, and I honestly can't see how anybody would say different.

Edited by E91, 24 October 2010 - 11:29 PM.


#63 OFFLINE   E91

E91

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 341 posts
Joined: Oct 07, 2008

Posted 24 October 2010 - 11:25 PM

DirecTV has network engineers. I don't see they would find anything of value in this thread and in the end I did not as well and as such I deleted all my comments.

But good luck anyway.


With all due respect, Grog, I spoke to their "network experts" on the phone several times trying to resolve this issue. They steadfastly maintained that ICK and DECA are unrelated and that static IPs would accomplish nothing.

Maybe the true engineers are aware of the issue, but you certainly can't reach anybody on the phone at D* who has even a vague idea regard any of the issues in this thread.

#64 OFFLINE   adamson

adamson

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 538 posts
  • LocationDunnellon, Florida
Joined: Nov 09, 2007

Posted 24 October 2010 - 11:30 PM

With all due respect, Grog, I spoke to their "network experts" on the phone several times trying to resolve this issue. They steadfastly maintained that ICK and DECA are unrelated and that static IPs would accomplish nothing.


Exactly static ip will accomplish nothing. Get a router that will. And this is not a problem only with DECA, unsupported MRV as well.

#65 OFFLINE   David MacLeod

David MacLeod

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,689 posts
Joined: Jan 29, 2008

Posted 25 October 2010 - 04:44 AM

people say their router does not work well with mrv, but everything else on network works fine. so why blame router?
no deca here so no way to test but have suspected broadband adapter "interrupting" (for lack of better term) dhcp requests/lease updates arbitrarily for no known reason.
Dave MacLeod
S.I.H.

#66 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

hdtvfan0001

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 32,386 posts
Joined: Jul 28, 2004

Posted 25 October 2010 - 07:21 AM

With all the different routers and their behavior using DHCP...and based on years of testing with static IP and without...

I have my own anecdotal experience that tells me static IP simply results in less problems and provides a more consistent reliable experience - especially with any model or type of DirecTV setup for networking/Internet connectivity.

At least that's what my DIR-655 told me. :D
DBSTalk CHAT ROOM MODERATOR
DirecTV Customer Since 1996

#67 OFFLINE   Steve

Steve

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 22,778 posts
  • LocationLower Westchester County, NY
Joined: Aug 22, 2006

Posted 25 October 2010 - 08:09 AM

As helpful as this static IP configuration sticky will be, the fact of the matter is DirecTV will still need to insure that the DHCP client routines work as flawlessly as possible, since only a small % of the DirecTV subscriber base has access to this site and the technical wherewithal to implement our recommendations.

The vast majority of DirecTV customers (and installers) will not know how to statically configure their boxes and will require a dependable "plug and play" solution.
/steve

#68 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

hdtvfan0001

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 32,386 posts
Joined: Jul 28, 2004

Posted 25 October 2010 - 08:14 AM

The vast majority of DirecTV customers (and installers) will not know how to statically configure their boxes and will require a dependable "plug and play" solution.

Agreed.
DBSTalk CHAT ROOM MODERATOR
DirecTV Customer Since 1996

#69 OFFLINE   Richierich

Richierich

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 8,487 posts
Joined: Jan 10, 2008

Posted 25 October 2010 - 09:20 AM

With all the different routers and their behavior using DHCP...and based on years of testing with static IP and without...

I have my own anecdotal experience that tells me static IP simply results in less problems and provides a more consistent reliable experience - especially with any model or type of DirecTV setup for networking/Internet connectivity.

At least that's what my DIR-655 told me. :D


Static IPs solved alot of my problems but not all. DECA Solved all of my MRV Problems. Thanks Directv.
*
DIRECTV CUSTOMER SINCE 1997
Here's My Setup

#70 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

hdtvfan0001

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 32,386 posts
Joined: Jul 28, 2004

Posted 25 October 2010 - 09:30 AM

Static IPs solved alot of my problems but not all. DECA Solved all of my MRV Problems. Thanks Directv.

If it worked for Richie.... :D:lol:
DBSTalk CHAT ROOM MODERATOR
DirecTV Customer Since 1996

#71 OFFLINE   adamson

adamson

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 538 posts
  • LocationDunnellon, Florida
Joined: Nov 09, 2007

Posted 25 October 2010 - 09:43 AM

lol...made my mornin

#72 OFFLINE   Doug Brott

Doug Brott

    Lifetime Achiever

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 28,930 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles
Joined: Jul 12, 2006

Posted 25 October 2010 - 10:07 AM

With all due respect, Grog, I spoke to their "network experts" on the phone several times trying to resolve this issue. They steadfastly maintained that ICK and DECA are unrelated and that static IPs would accomplish nothing.


I would tend to think that in a well-behaved DHCP configuration that static IPs would accomplish nothing. The key being "well-behaved" and with the millions of variations of DHCP server, I can understand why folks would say that DHCP is the problem. Not all configurations are well-behaved.
DIRECTV Firmware Monitor - iPhone - Android - HTML5

DIRECTV employee since August 2011.
All comments are my own. Unless specifically stated, my views do NOT represent the views of DIRECTV

#73 OFFLINE   Doug Brott

Doug Brott

    Lifetime Achiever

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 28,930 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles
Joined: Jul 12, 2006

Posted 25 October 2010 - 10:11 AM

There is a problem and it is not DHCP. If it is doing a DHCP request due to signal loss then it is a problem with signal loss. If it is doing a DHCP request due to a problem with the router then it is a router problem. But the DHCP requests are not timed to happen often and by the technical nature of what DHCP is designed for it is not the issue.


The reality here is that a lot of people by a $50 router/switch (on sale for $20) and expect it to function like a $3,000 router/switch. This contributes to the lack of a well-behaved system.
DIRECTV Firmware Monitor - iPhone - Android - HTML5

DIRECTV employee since August 2011.
All comments are my own. Unless specifically stated, my views do NOT represent the views of DIRECTV

#74 OFFLINE   E91

E91

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 341 posts
Joined: Oct 07, 2008

Posted 25 October 2010 - 10:12 AM

I would tend to think that in a well-behaved DHCP configuration that static IPs would accomplish nothing. The key being "well-behaved" and with the millions of variations of DHCP server, I can understand why folks would say that DHCP is the problem. Not all configurations are well-behaved.


I'm not sure what "well behaved" means. However, once again I point to D*'s strategic partnership with AT*T. As far as I can tell, the 2Wire modem that AT&T provides to all of it's non-commerical users can not co-exist with DECA unless you configure the receivers with static IPs. So, by whatever the standard is for "well behaved", one of the most ubiquitous modems in the home of D* users is not going to qualify.

#75 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

hdtvfan0001

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 32,386 posts
Joined: Jul 28, 2004

Posted 25 October 2010 - 10:16 AM

I would tend to think that in a well-behaved DHCP configuration that static IPs would accomplish nothing. The key being "well-behaved" and with the millions of variations of DHCP server, I can understand why folks would say that DHCP is the problem. Not all configurations are well-behaved.

Boy did I learn that lesson more than once... :eek2::D:lol:
DBSTalk CHAT ROOM MODERATOR
DirecTV Customer Since 1996




Protected By... spam firewall...And...