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DISH Network Reports Third Quarter 2010 Financial Results


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#26 OFFLINE   DodgerKing

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 04:55 PM

And some said during the FOX dispute Dish would be bankrupt.


I don't recall anyone saying they would go bankrupt. But, the FOX dispute took place during Q4 and this report is for Q3

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#27 OFFLINE   Richard King

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 10:22 PM

Anyway, Dish's financials appear to indicate that the company is much better off than back when it was first spun off of Echostar. .


When the split occured was when I sold my DISH stock and bought Directv stock. THAT looks like it was a good move on my part, but, the bad move was in hanging on to the Echostar stock.
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However, I hope they continue to retain a noticeable portion of current earnings just in case the TiVo lawsuit finally doesn't go their way in ...oh, I don't know... late 2011, early 2012

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#28 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 11:57 PM

I think we're just seeing more of the same old same old.

When Dish adds subscribers but doesn't increase profit... the sky is falling!

When Dish loses subscribers but increases profit... the sky is falling!

The sky seems to always be falling.

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#29 OFFLINE   kcolg30

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 06:43 AM

I am helping DISH and Charlie financially with my $223 per month bill...:D

DISH will be here for a long time...:P

#30 OFFLINE   DodgerKing

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 08:28 AM

I think we're just seeing more of the same old same old.

When Dish adds subscribers but doesn't increase profit... the sky is falling!

When Dish loses subscribers but increases profit... the sky is falling!

The sky seems to always be falling.


Shouldn't they be adding subscribers AND making a profit (even if profits or additions are down, but still in the positive)?

I don't think the sky is falling, but there are issues when they have had at least three quarters in the last 2 years (and soon will be three quarters this year alone) of sub losses, when other providers are adding subs at the same time. They do need to do something to address these issue. Obviously more people find other sources more to their liking or more affordable even though Dish is supposed to be the low price alternative

#31 OFFLINE   HobbyTalk

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 08:37 AM

Shouldn't they be adding subscribers AND making a profit (even if profits or additions are down, but still in the positive)?

I don't think the sky is falling, but there are issues when they have had at least three quarters in the last 2 years (and soon will be three quarters this year alone) of sub losses, when other providers are adding subs at the same time. They do need to do something to address these issue. Obviously more people find other sources more to their liking or more affordable even though Dish is supposed to be the low price alternative


Or it could be the economy. It could be looked at two ways, depending how anyone wants to spin it.

Lower income people will subscribe to Dish since they are lower cost. Maybe even these people can not afford it now.

Or maybe the economy is really recovering and people are moving to higher priced products.

I personally feel that Dish has positioned themselves at the lower end of the market and to those that just want a minimum of "pay" TV to supplement the network channels. Many of these subscribers, while they can afford it, always look for a lower priced alternative. Many have found a combination of Netflix, Redbox, Hulu and other on-line viewing to satisfy their needs.
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#32 OFFLINE   DodgerKing

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 08:44 AM

Or it could be the economy. It could be looked at two ways, depending how anyone wants to spin it.

Lower income people will subscribe to Dish since they are lower cost. Maybe even these people can not afford it now.

Or maybe the economy is really recovering and people are moving to higher priced products.

I personally feel that Dish has positioned themselves at the lower end of the market and to those that just want a minimum of "pay" TV to supplement the network channels. Many of these subscribers, while they can afford it, always look for a lower priced alternative. Many have found a combination of Netflix, Redbox, Hulu and other on-line viewing to satisfy their needs.

Then Dish's agenda of pushing. "Why Pay More?" may not be that good of an idea, or shows that during tough times it may not be as good as during better times? Perhaps Dish needs to look at changing some things so they can gain subs and profit every quarter?

I am stating this because I want Dish do succeed. Even as a Direct sub, I do not want Direct to be the only choice for satellite TV.

#33 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 08:55 AM

Shouldn't they be adding subscribers AND making a profit (even if profits or additions are down, but still in the positive)?

I don't think the sky is falling, but there are issues when they have had at least three quarters in the last 2 years (and soon will be three quarters this year alone) of sub losses, when other providers are adding subs at the same time. They do need to do something to address these issue. Obviously more people find other sources more to their liking or more affordable even though Dish is supposed to be the low price alternative


It would be nice if they were adding subs and making a profit, and overall they have over the last 2 years.

Currently it isn't 'other' providers adding subs, it is ONE provider doing that unless I've been reading bum news... :)

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#34 OFFLINE   DodgerKing

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 09:33 AM

It would be nice if they were adding subs and making a profit, and overall they have over the last 2 years.

Currently it isn't 'other' providers adding subs, it is ONE provider doing that unless I've been reading bum news... :)


DirecTV, FiOs, and U-Verse have all added subs this past quarter

#35 OFFLINE   BattleZone

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 09:50 AM

DirecTV, FiOs, and U-Verse have all added subs this past quarter


The difference between DirecTV and FIOS/Uverse is that the latter two are fairly new services, with many areas just starting to offer the service. Growth there is a given. DirecTV hasn't been a "new" service in a long time.

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#36 OFFLINE   DodgerKing

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 10:03 AM

The difference between DirecTV and FIOS/Uverse is that the latter two are fairly new services, with many areas just starting to offer the service. Growth there is a given. DirecTV hasn't been a "new" service in a long time.


The point being is that there are providers (plural) ADDING subs, new or old. People are paying for TV, but yet Dish is losing subs. Why is this? Are these Dish subs that left simply not paying for TV at all anymore, or are they going to these providers that are gaining subs?

#37 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 10:39 AM

The point being is that there are providers (plural) ADDING subs, new or old. People are paying for TV, but yet Dish is losing subs. Why is this? Are these Dish subs that left simply not paying for TV at all anymore, or are they going to these providers that are gaining subs?


In the case of FIOS/Uverse, aren't there some really good sweetheart 3-fer deals going? With a broad selection of HD channels, which isn't always the case with other cable providers? And is D* gaining subs in areas that have these new services?

The numbers E* is losing are relatively low. This past quarters over the big increase in equipment fees most likely. Next quarters will be from mostly the Fox/RSN debacle, and I think will also be low numbers.

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#38 OFFLINE   DodgerKing

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 11:50 AM

In the case of FIOS/Uverse, aren't there some really good sweetheart 3-fer deals going? With a broad selection of HD channels, which isn't always the case with other cable providers? And is D* gaining subs in areas that have these new services?

The numbers E* is losing are relatively low. This past quarters over the big increase in equipment fees most likely. Next quarters will be from mostly the Fox/RSN debacle, and I think will also be low numbers.


One thing Dish may have done wrong then was to no longer contract with these telecommunication companies. Whenever I go into an ATT or Verizon store, both are promoting bundling with their respective service and/or DirecTV as well

#39 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 12:16 PM

Keep in mind that Dish added 819,000 subscribers and lost 848,000 subscribers to get that 29,000 net loss.

Relative to a bad economy, some people abandon cable altogether to save money while others come to Dish because it offers a cheap option. Also related to the economy, more people are moving because of money problems. And some come to Dish because they're angry at their current provider while some leave because they are angry at Dish. It would be interesting to see some kind of survey results in addition to raw numbers.

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#40 ONLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 12:46 PM

Of course, grand slam would be to decrease costs, increase subs, increase income, thus maximizing an increase of profits.

Then the reality being faced by all the satellite and cable companies--all the channels what more money--faster than the public will allow.

So decreasing costs is rather limited. :)

Which is most important? Profits are a very good thing. Congrats Dish for doing so. Hopefully (for Dish subs and investors), they will be able to increase subs and profits next quarter.

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#41 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 03:28 PM

Shouldn't they be adding subscribers AND making a profit (even if profits or additions are down, but still in the positive)?

They are. The trouble is where pundits draw the lines.

"Net subscriber additions" is an easy line to draw at zero. Who cares if 963k subscribers left your service - over five percent of your customers - in 3Q when the net is above zero? Perhaps it is just being expressed poorly by said pundits when they say "the company is going to lose subscribers". What they really mean is their subscriber additions will be down. If one is looking for larger subscriber losses there is a satellite company that beats dish nearly every quarter in losing subscribers.

And if one reads the actual 10Q report and not just the numbers one will see why subscriber additions are down. Without needing to make up their own explanations.

The entire battle over subscribers is gaining new ones. DISH has managed to add 3.246 million subscribers over the last four reported quarters ... 438k more than they lost. DirecTV added 493k more than they lost in the same period. And somehow DISH is failing because their net is 55k lower than the #2 cable/satellite company?

Financially DISH has made money every year since 2002 (where $690 million of their loss was merger termination costs from the attempt to buy DirecTV). They made more money 3Q 2010 than they did in any entire year before 2005. They have turned more profit in the first three quarters of 2010 than they did in the entire year of 2009 and are on track to make more money in 2010 than they have in any year except 2005 (2005 was an exceptionally good year). And yet pundits will find a way to spin that into a failure.

DirecTV's 3Q profits were down 20% compared to 2Q but up 18% compared to 3Q 09. Guess which number will be reported by the pundits. The one that fits their agenda. (DISH's 3Q profits were down 4% compared to 2Q but up 202% compared to 3Q 09. Both numbers beat DirecTV so I suppose DISH wins! :) )

It all depends on where you draw the line.

#42 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 03:37 PM

Lower income people will subscribe to Dish since they are lower cost. Maybe even these people can not afford it now.

Unfortunately (for DISH) their push as a lower cost service was trumped by other companies who beat their offer on promotional pricing. Full retail price DISH charges less, but most of the 1.956 million subscribers who signed up for satellite service in 3Q are not paying full retail price. They got a special deal.

I am stating this because I want Dish do succeed. Even as a Direct sub, I do not want Direct to be the only choice for satellite TV.

No worries mate. As long as DISH makes money they will remain in business. It is the profit that keeps the company afloat, not the subscriber count.

#43 ONLINE   RAD

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 03:43 PM

Financially DISH has made money every year since 2002 (where $690 million of their loss was merger termination costs from the attempt to buy DirecTV). They made more money 3Q 2010 than they did in any entire year before 2005. They have turned more profit in the first three quarters of 2010 than they did in the entire year of 2009 and are on track to make more money in 2010 than they have in any year except 2005 (2005 was an exceptionally good year). And yet pundits will find a way to spin that into a failure.


IMHO folks need to remember this when the next rate increase comes along and the blame is put on increased programming provider costs. Sounds like while that's part of the equation, Dish is also getting a good chunk of that increase to elevate their profits.

Not saying that it's wrong to want to make more money, it's the American way of business. Just saying remember program provider increases aren't the only reason you'll be paying more.

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#44 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 03:50 PM

Shouldn't they be adding subscribers AND making a profit (even if profits or additions are down, but still in the positive)?


Ideally, yes... but companies sometimes take diverging paths to grow.

IF you grow your subscriber base now, but at a cost, then in the future you get paid back with revenue from keeping those subscribers!

Alternatively...

IF you maximize your profits now, it might be at the expense of some subscribers who don't buy into your pricing plans... so you gain more money now, and if those subscribers stay you'll be making up the difference in lost subscribers later.

In a perfect world you could reduce expenses, grow your customer base, and increase profit... but it's really hard to do all of those simultaneously... and especially so in a down/struggling economy.

And on a related note... taking these reports quarter by quarter can be misleading... but looking at several years might get a better idea. IF profits are up and subscribers are up over the last 10 years... then one might expect some down quarters now and then on both fronts along the way... but the overall trend could still be up.

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#45 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 04:07 PM

IMHO folks need to remember this when the next rate increase comes along and the blame is put on increased programming provider costs. Sounds like while that's part of the equation, Dish is also getting a good chunk of that increase to elevate their profits.

DISH made an average of $17 off of each subscriber last quarter. That other company made $38 off of each subscriber.

I suppose it could be looked at as the lesser of two evils. $5.71 profit per subscriber per month, 7.7% of the ARPU, isn't as bad as $12.68 profit per subscriber per month, 14.2% of the ARPU. Making money makes some people happy. I'm not sure if they are shareholders or not, but they are pundits.

#46 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 06:17 PM

Dish is installed in a lot of businesses for the Muzak services. It uses Echostar equipment, we have one where I work.

Where is E16 going? Eastern Arc or Western Arc? I tried to get Dish but I don't have LOS for Eastern Arc.

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#47 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 01:33 AM

Dish is installed in a lot of businesses for the Muzak services. It uses Echostar equipment, we have one where I work.

Unless they are subscribed to video they would not count as DISH customers. The service is still sold by Muzak with DISH simply providing the transport.

(The last Muzak receiver I saw was a special audio only receiver with a front channel display.)

Where is E16 going? Eastern Arc or Western Arc?

I believe that one is aimed at 61.5 ... another massive spotbeam satellite designed to increase local market carriage. The next launch is also Eastern Arc ... Quezsat-1 going to 77 to serve DISH local markets via spotbeam (instead of the current ConUS satellites there).

#48 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 08:06 AM

Unless they are subscribed to video they would not count as DISH customers. The service is still sold by Muzak with DISH simply providing the transport.

(The last Muzak receiver I saw was a special audio only receiver with a front channel display.)

I believe that one is aimed at 61.5 ... another massive spotbeam satellite designed to increase local market carriage. The next launch is also Eastern Arc ... Quezsat-1 going to 77 to serve DISH local markets via spotbeam (instead of the current ConUS satellites there).


Our receivers at work are Echostar and we use one to pipe CNN and another goes through an audio amplifier. They do not get local channels though. Just nationals, so when there is a big sporting event on fox 29 for example, we can't get it. Only when they play on something like TBS (thinking of baseball playoffs).




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