Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo

Upgrading to HD and have some questions

video

  • Please log in to reply
54 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   SBI

SBI

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 95 posts
Joined: Feb 20, 2004

Posted 20 December 2010 - 08:36 PM

I've been with D* for nearly 7 years. My setting has been the same almost since the beginning (started with two SD and one TiVo, and replaced one of the SD for a 2nd TiVo shortly after). I am well beyond my 2 year commitment and I have:
1. Triple LNB Oval dish
2. SD Receiver in the bedroom
3. SD TiVo in the living room
4. SD TiVo in the basement.
5. SWA-48 switch - 4 wires from the dish coming in, 5 going out (2X2 to the TiVo and 1 to the SD receiver in the bedroom.
All cables are RG6

One D* CSR told me that it is likely that new cables would need to be run and I was pretty much reluctant to upgrade because I didn't want to drill more holes in my house. Only after speaking with the CSR I checked and realized that these were RG6 cables.

I would like to keep the same setup that I have at minimum, that is - replace the two TiVo's with HD-DVR and the SD with HD receiver.
I am not interested in MultiRoom DVR because I want to be able to have two independent channels in each of the TiVo/DVR rooms.

I did some extensive reading in the last few days but I still have some unanswered questions and I would appreciate your help.

1. Will I be able to keep my existing cables for HD (providing of course they are still transferring signal ;) )?
2. I understand that the HR24 is the most advanced HD-DVR that D* sends out these days. Is it possible to ask to have that one and refuse anything else?
3. Slimline Dish/SWM - is this the "default" installation these days, or is it something I need to ask for?
4. DECA - I still did not quite understand the benefit of connecting all receivers to the internet. If someone can explain to me or point to a link that would be great.
Also, a link from as late as October of this year point out that DECA is not yet available, yet other posts tell about DECA installation. Can someone clear this up for me?
If it is available - like Slimline/SWM - is it something I can ask for, or does it come in automatically?
5. If I understand the SWM correctly, I will be able to get a DVR for the bedroom (down the road) even though I only have one cable going to that room...?
6. Last but not least - say I want to get only one HD-DVR for the basement and keep the old TiVo in the living room - will I be able to do this with new dish/SWM?

Again, any input will be appreciated.

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#2 OFFLINE   dpeters11

dpeters11

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 12,751 posts
  • LocationCincinnati
Joined: May 30, 2007

Posted 20 December 2010 - 09:43 PM

I would like to keep the same setup that I have at minimum, that is - replace the two TiVo's with HD-DVR and the SD with HD receiver.
I am not interested in MultiRoom DVR because I want to be able to have two independent channels in each of the TiVo/DVR rooms.


Keep this in mind: If you get Multi-Room DVR (MRV), each DVR will still have two tuners available.I have two DVRs with MRV. I can record 4 things at once and either watch something recorded (or currently recording) on either DVR. The limit is that a DVR can only serve up one thing at a time. So if there is a receiver/DVR in the den playing something recorded in the master bedroom, a box in the living room can't play back anything on that bedroom box.

#3 OFFLINE   RACJ2

RACJ2

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 3,848 posts
Joined: Aug 02, 2008

Posted 20 December 2010 - 09:52 PM

Welcome to DBSTalk, I'll try to answer what I can for you.

1. Will I be able to keep my existing cables for HD (providing of course they are still transferring signal )? Yes, you shouldn't need any new cabling, based on what you posted above
2. I understand that the HR24 is the most advanced HD-DVR that D* sends out these days. Is it possible to ask to have that one and refuse anything else? Its best to ask the installer if he has an HR24, when he calls you the day of your installation. If he doesn't, tell him that you want the HR24 or you will reschedule.
3. Slimline Dish/SWM - is this the "default" installation these days, or is it something I need to ask for? It is, especially in you order the whole house DVR package. Yes you should get SWiM, since they will need to change out your existing dish for one that can handle HD, but it won't hurt to ask
4. DECA - I still did not quite understand the benefit of connecting all receivers to the internet. If someone can explain to me or point to a link that would be great. DECA is mainly for the whole home DVR setup. Internet connectivity is good for VOD, TV APPs and the third party remote control feature from a laptop that someone created recently.
Also, a link from as late as October of this year point out that DECA is not yet available, yet other posts tell about DECA installation. Can someone clear this up for me? DECA is installed only when you order whole home DVR.
If it is available - like Slimline/SWM - is it something I can ask for, or does it come in automatically?
5. If I understand the SWM correctly, I will be able to get a DVR for the bedroom (down the road) even though I only have one cable going to that room...? Correct
6. Last but not least - say I want to get only one HD-DVR for the basement and keep the old TiVo in the living room - will I be able to do this with new dish/SWM? Not sure about this one, some older SD receivers aren't compatible with SWiM.
HR34-700, HR22-100

#4 OFFLINE   netraa

netraa

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 483 posts
Joined: Mar 27, 2007

Posted 20 December 2010 - 10:43 PM

1. as long as they are RG6, and not RG59 they should be able to be used. as long as they are in good shape. no splices, nicks, cuts, and properly attached to the house (no metal staples, metal wire clips, ect)

2. you can refuse, and undergo various consequences from the installer that you just killed a job for him because of something that is out of his control, and that D* will say, you get what you get. you can find dozens of threads where people have tried for weeks/months to get 24's and have gone through all kinds of trouble for it, and you'll find threads where it happens on the first try... luck of the draw, just remember your jacking with someones paycheck when you try and do the IRD fishing trips.

3. unless you order the whole home install, you will NOT get a swm dish because you are upgrading your system. Upgrades do not get swm without the whole home upgrade.

4. only with SWM and whole home. see 3 above.

5. see 3 above but yes, that's the whole point of the single wire system.

5. see 3 above with the note that TIVO's are not compatable with swm and would be swapped out for R16's in the whole home purchase.

#5 OFFLINE   carl6

carl6

    Hall Of Fame

  • Moderators
  • 10,857 posts
  • LocationSeattle, WA
Joined: Nov 15, 2005

Posted 21 December 2010 - 12:25 AM

2. I want to agree with netraa on this item. As far as DirecTV is concerned, all HD DVRs are equivalent and interchangeable. There is no guarantee as to what model you will get. If you insist you must have only an HR24, then find a local dealer who can sell you the equipment and do the installation and get it that way (you will most likely have to pay more).

5. As noted above, the Tivo won't work with the SWM system, so it would have to be replaced with an R16 (which is the SD DVR that is compatible with SWM). Personally, I would retire the Tivo and get another HD DVR. Note, any similarity between a DirecTivo and an R16 is purely coincidental - they are entirely different products (just so you are aware). That isn't knocking the R16, just making sure you know what you would be getting.

#6 OFFLINE   cherry919

cherry919

    Cool Member

  • Registered
  • 28 posts
Joined: Jun 24, 2010

Posted 21 December 2010 - 12:29 AM

And just to confuse you some more --- if you were to acquire a SWiM 8 -- it supports up to 3 legacy (ie, DirecTivo) outputs - here's a link about the SWiM 8

http://www.swm8.com/...eneral-info.php

#7 OFFLINE   Drucifer

Drucifer

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 7,860 posts
  • LocationNY Hudson Valley
Joined: Feb 12, 2009

Posted 21 December 2010 - 12:42 PM

. . . .
2. I understand that the HR24 is the most advanced HD-DVR that D* sends out these days. Is it possible to ask to have that one and refuse anything else?
. . . .

With WHDVR you'll have a better chance of getting the 24s as replacement.

DREW

Do it Right, Do it Once
LR: HR34-7, Den: HR24-1, MB: HR24-5, Bsm: HR21-2, Kit: H25-5
PrimeStar '95, DirecTV  '00


#8 OFFLINE   SBI

SBI

    AllStar

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 95 posts
Joined: Feb 20, 2004

Posted 21 December 2010 - 02:32 PM

Keep this in mind: If you get Multi-Room DVR (MRV), each DVR will still have two tuners available.I have two DVRs with MRV. I can record 4 things at once and either watch something recorded (or currently recording) on either DVR. The limit is that a DVR can only serve up one thing at a time. So if there is a receiver/DVR in the den playing something recorded in the master bedroom, a box in the living room can't play back anything on that bedroom box.


Thanks dpeters11. My bad on this, I confused Multi-Room DVR (having a stand-alone DVR in two or more rooms) with whole-home DVR. With the latter I am limited to two channels simultaneously (record two/record one-watch one) in the entire house. Believe it or not, sometimes my wife and I record two and watch two between the two TiVo's that we have.

#9 OFFLINE   SBI

SBI

    AllStar

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 95 posts
Joined: Feb 20, 2004

Posted 21 December 2010 - 02:39 PM

Welcome to DBSTalk, I'll try to answer what I can for you.


4. DECA - I still did not quite understand the benefit of connecting all receivers to the internet. If someone can explain to me or point to a link that would be great. DECA is mainly for the whole home DVR setup. Internet connectivity is good for VOD, TV APPs and the third party remote control feature from a laptop that someone created recently.
Also, a link from as late as October of this year point out that DECA is not yet available, yet other posts tell about DECA installation. Can someone clear this up for me? DECA is installed only when you order whole home DVR.


Thanks RACJ2.

If not DECA, can I hard wire/wireless to the router and have the same functionality? After all DECA is just the interface of the D*'s system to the router...one cable instead of multiple RJ45. Am I correct?

#10 OFFLINE   SBI

SBI

    AllStar

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 95 posts
Joined: Feb 20, 2004

Posted 21 December 2010 - 02:42 PM

3. unless you order the whole home install, you will NOT get a swm dish because you are upgrading your system. Upgrades do not get swm without the whole home upgrade.


Thanks netraa.
Just to clarify - are you referring to whole-home DVR or whole-house upgrade, meaning - upgrading all current receivers that I have, regardless if I go with WHDVR?

#11 OFFLINE   SBI

SBI

    AllStar

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 95 posts
Joined: Feb 20, 2004

Posted 21 December 2010 - 02:50 PM

2. I want to agree with netraa on this item. As far as DirecTV is concerned, all HD DVRs are equivalent and interchangeable. There is no guarantee as to what model you will get. If you insist you must have only an HR24, then find a local dealer who can sell you the equipment and do the installation and get it that way (you will most likely have to pay more).


carl6 - I read about someone who was able to have D* credit him for equipment that he bought through a local dealer. Any idea if this is a "common practice"? I wouldn't even think about it, to be honest with you.

5. As noted above, the Tivo won't work with the SWM system, so it would have to be replaced with an R16 (which is the SD DVR that is compatible with SWM). Personally, I would retire the Tivo and get another HD DVR. Note, any similarity between a DirecTivo and an R16 is purely coincidental - they are entirely different products (just so you are aware). That isn't knocking the R16, just making sure you know what you would be getting.



I saw one big thread about TiVo vs. DVR but other than X number of people who likes TiVo and another X number of people who would swear by DVR, I couldn't really find a major difference. I guess it is mostly the interface, which you get used to. Can you point out why you would retire the TiVo?

Thanks.

#12 OFFLINE   RACJ2

RACJ2

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 3,848 posts
Joined: Aug 02, 2008

Posted 21 December 2010 - 08:12 PM

Thanks RACJ2.

If not DECA, can I hard wire/wireless to the router and have the same functionality? After all DECA is just the interface of the D*'s system to the router...one cable instead of multiple RJ45. Am I correct?

Yes, you can hardwire or use wireless for these features. And the HR DVR's have an Ethernet input and output that works like a switch. So if you already have a run near your TV, you can just add a short cat5/6 cable and run both devices. Forgot to mention that you can also use DIRECTV2PC feature and watch recordings in HD on your PC or laptop. I feel it is worth it getting your DVR's on your LAN.
HR34-700, HR22-100

#13 OFFLINE   The Merg

The Merg

    1*

  • Registered
  • 10,253 posts
  • LocationNorthern VA
Joined: Jun 24, 2007

Posted 21 December 2010 - 08:36 PM

Just to add some more to the fire... Comments in-line in red.. Additional coments at bottom...

1. Will I be able to keep my existing cables for HD (providing of course they are still transferring signal ;) )?

Yes. As you noted, there should not be an issue.

2. I understand that the HR24 is the most advanced HD-DVR that D* sends out these days. Is it possible to ask to have that one and refuse anything else?

As mentioned, you can see if the installer has one on his truck. One trick is to call the dispatch office the day of your installation and see if they can help you out. As you also mentioned, you can see if DirecTV will give you a credit and then you can purchase one from a retailer. However, since you still need to have your dish upgraded for HD, they might not perform the upgrade install for free if you purchase the receiver from a retailer.

3. Slimline Dish/SWM - is this the "default" installation these days, or is it something I need to ask for?

With your setup, you should get a SWM-LNB install.

4. DECA - I still did not quite understand the benefit of connecting all receivers to the internet. If someone can explain to me or point to a link that would be great.
Also, a link from as late as October of this year point out that DECA is not yet available, yet other posts tell about DECA installation. Can someone clear this up for me?
If it is available - like Slimline/SWM - is it something I can ask for, or does it come in automatically?

As mentioned, if you ask for the Whole Home DVR Upgrade, that will get DECA's installed for any HD/HD-DVR receivers that are not H24/HR24's. It will also get you a Broadband DECA to link your receivers to your home network. This will allow you to order PPV via the Internet, have access to VOD, MediaShare, and use DirecTV2PC.

5. If I understand the SWM correctly, I will be able to get a DVR for the bedroom (down the road) even though I only have one cable going to that room...?

Yes.

6. Last but not least - say I want to get only one HD-DVR for the basement and keep the old TiVo in the living room - will I be able to do this with new dish/SWM?

If you perform a standard HD upgrade, you will not get a SWM setup and could continue to use any Tivo receivers. If you get the WHDVR upgrade, you will not be able to use the Tivo's as they cannot exist on a SWM-LNB system.

Again, any input will be appreciated.


If you perform the WHDVR upgrade, you will need at least two HD/HD-DVR receivers (one of which needs to be a HD-DVR). With your setup, it would seem logical to replace the Tivos with HD-DVR's and the SD receiver with a HD receiver. If you opt to not upgrade one of the Tivo's, it will be replaced with a R16, which while SWM compatible, is not MRV compatible. (There is a very, very slim chance that the Tivo would be replaced with a R22, which would then act just like a HD-DVR and would be MRV compatible).

If you opt to not go the WHDVR route, you can run ethernet to each of the HD/HD-DVR receivers and have MRV turned on in an unsupported mode. Of course, you need to run CAT5 to each of your receivers then as opposed to DECA where you only need one CAT5 run from the Broadband DECA to the router to connect all your receivers.

Also, I would not recommend what RACJ2 suggests of using the receiver as an ethernet switch. While the receivers do have two ethernet ports, they do not have the hardware to act as a switch. If you plug a device into the second port, the CPU of the receiver has to handle the switching capabilities, which then bogs down the receiver. If you can only run one CAT5 over near the receiver and need to run additional devices, use an inexpensive switch and then run CAT5 cables to each of the devices.

- Merg

Today's problems don't worry me, I haven't solved yesterday's yet.

SlimLine-3 Dish w/ SWM16 (HD Service / WHDVR) / Full Setup
HR34-700 / Panasonic TC-P50G25 HDTV / HDMI / Networked - DECA / Family Room
HR44-700 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom

HR24-100 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom


#14 OFFLINE   carl6

carl6

    Hall Of Fame

  • Moderators
  • 10,857 posts
  • LocationSeattle, WA
Joined: Nov 15, 2005

Posted 21 December 2010 - 10:38 PM

carl6 - I read about someone who was able to have D* credit him for equipment that he bought through a local dealer. Any idea if this is a "common practice"? I wouldn't even think about it, to be honest with you.

It all depends on your history with DirecTV. Ask, the worst they can do is say no.

I saw one big thread about TiVo vs. DVR but other than X number of people who likes TiVo and another X number of people who would swear by DVR, I couldn't really find a major difference. I guess it is mostly the interface, which you get used to. Can you point out why you would retire the TiVo?

Thanks.


The main argument in your situation is that the Tivo is not SWiM capable whereas the R16 (or any HD receiver or DVR) is SWiM capable. As someone else noted, it is possible to either use an SWM8 multiswitch, or a hybrid system where you have both SWM8 and WB68 in parallel, in which case you could retain and use your Tivo. However, neither of those configurations is likely to be installed by DirecTV, it would require you to invest in some hardware. What DirecTV will want to do is change out the LNB in your dish for an SWiM LNB, and the Tivo will not work with that.

#15 OFFLINE   tkrandall

tkrandall

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,795 posts
Joined: Oct 03, 2003

Posted 22 December 2010 - 08:08 AM

It can be done. Last month I got 2 HR24s through the office of a local DirecTV installer company. Paid 199 each. Prior to that, DirecTV had to agreed to credit me $200 (half off the 2 of them) when they were activated. I had to ask more than once for the credit. First call to customer service and I got a no we can't do that. When I later emailed them through the website, I got a call back from corporate and they were willing to accommodate my request (which, was to allow me to acquire the 2 HR24s to replace my DirecTIVOs, and also to arrange for them to do the whole-home upgrade (SWM LNB, connection kit, etc) as well.

#16 OFFLINE   SBI

SBI

    AllStar

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 95 posts
Joined: Feb 20, 2004

Posted 22 December 2010 - 03:55 PM

Thank you all for your feedback.

I took the plunge last night and called D*. Their voice recognition system (I hate talking to computers...) did not understand my 'retention' command and put me through to someone who transferred me to "Account Changes", where the CSR could not provide me with an appealing offer.
I called again and this time used a clearer voice which connected me to the desired Retention Dept.
Long story short: First HD-DVR for free; Second HD-DVR for $99; and another HD Receiver for $49. Total - less than $150 for upgrading the entire house.
At first the CSR wanted to charge me around $20 for S&H, but I was able to convince him to waive this as well.

I asked to 'request' HR24, he said they cannot even put requests, but then said that as a gesture he will send one to the warehouse for HR24 (I guess we'll never know whether or not he actually sent anything, but he did go above and beyond to keep a happy customer).

An attempt to go for the $10 HD service waiver for automatic payment was unsuccessful because apparently my current grandfathered plan has a $7 credit for my DVR service which will expire next January and he was unable to place another credit. Oh, well...another $10 a month. What can I do.

I first scheduled the installation for tomorrow, but a quick look at weather.com revealed snow showers in the am and those of you who are familiar with New England know that scheduling satellite installation/upgrade in that weather is a bad idea, simply because the local forecasters have no bleaping clue what they are talking about, so I changed to Friday (I was surprised to see that they even do this on Friday...Xmas eve, after all. Kind'a short day).

He also confirmed that the new dish will definitely be the new slimline dish, but in regards to the SWM he said "whatever the tech. has in the car". Hope I'll get what I want equipment-wise after all.

Question:
So I came down to the kitchen informing the girls that we're gonna have HD, and my wife almost flipped:
"What about all the Xmas movies that I recorded to watch with the girls on Xmas, is it gone? I won't be able to watch it??"

So, what is going to happen with my recorded stuff in the TiVo? Obviously the cards of the old DirecTiVo will be deactivated, but can I still hook the old machine to a TV and watch what is recorded in Now Playing :confused:?

Thanks again.

#17 OFFLINE   tkrandall

tkrandall

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,795 posts
Joined: Oct 03, 2003

Posted 22 December 2010 - 04:15 PM

So, what is going to happen with my recorded stuff in the TiVo? Obviously the cards of the old DirecTiVo will be deactivated, but can I still hook the old machine to a TV and watch what is recorded in Now Playing :confused:?

Thanks again.


I think if you disconnect the DirecTIVOs prior to their being "deactivated" by activating the new equipment, and then don't reconnect them, you should be able to power them up in isolation and watch stuff. I have a box myself I want to extract something off of (burn a dvd) this way.

#18 OFFLINE   SBI

SBI

    AllStar

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 95 posts
Joined: Feb 20, 2004

Posted 22 December 2010 - 04:44 PM

I think if you disconnect the DirecTIVOs prior to their being "deactivated" by activating the new equipment, and then don't reconnect them, you should be able to power them up in isolation and watch stuff. I have a box myself I want to extract something off of (burn a dvd) this way.


So disconnect them, and then connect to a TV without hooking up to the satellite?

#19 OFFLINE   carl6

carl6

    Hall Of Fame

  • Moderators
  • 10,857 posts
  • LocationSeattle, WA
Joined: Nov 15, 2005

Posted 22 December 2010 - 07:09 PM

So disconnect them, and then connect to a TV without hooking up to the satellite?


Disconnect the satellite inputs to the Tivo before calling to have it deactivated. You should continue to have access to the recordings. That is not true on DirecTV DVRs, but I believe it will work on Tivo's.

#20 OFFLINE   Drucifer

Drucifer

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 7,860 posts
  • LocationNY Hudson Valley
Joined: Feb 12, 2009

Posted 22 December 2010 - 07:30 PM

Didn't see you mention WHDVR or CCK in your upgrade -- that's Whole Home DVR and Cinema (Internet) Connection Kit.

DREW

Do it Right, Do it Once
LR: HR34-7, Den: HR24-1, MB: HR24-5, Bsm: HR21-2, Kit: H25-5
PrimeStar '95, DirecTV  '00





spam firewall